I just got made.

[BBill_TN]

After carrying for 14 months, I finally got called out on it. Ok folks; here's the story.

Today I put on a shirt long enough to cover my Kel-tec PF-9 IWB, but a bit more snug than I usually wear, but wasn't too concerned as a few months ago I gave up on worrying so much about concealment. After breakfast at a local restaurant, a trip to Nashville involving several hours of shopping at a pool/billiards/leisure store, and a quick trip to the Outpost, I decided once back in my hometown to stop by the liquor store for something later tonight.

Upon entering I didn't really get a chance to greet the lady working as she was already involved in another conversation...given the chance for a greeting and a smile, I doubt she would have been too suspicious (lol)....I immediately went to the Bourbon section and was weighing the selection (maybe bending a bit to read prices) when she asks me , "is that a gun you are wearing?" I of course say, "yes ma'am," "is that a problem?" Not sure exactly of the interchange from there....was a bit nervous myself:)....anyway, she made it clear that it made her uncomfortable and she would rather me leave it in the car, but I was welcome to come back and shop.

I explained to her that I thought it would be ok as I had talked with her husband on several occasions...never telling him I carried concealed but getting his general opinion on such issues. That being said...somewhere in the conversation she stated that she had a gun of her own and I told her great I would feel better as long as one of us had one. I proceeded to my car and disarmed. I returned to store and had a long conversation with her about the process of getting a permit (she was interested in getting one) and it turns out a gentleman there with her...guess he was working security (a former police officer) had outed me to her. Not sure if it was heavy printing or my shirt had ridden up, but either way he made me.

The gentleman was still under the impression (as the old law was) that you couldn't carry where it was sold or served, but I educated him on the update of where it is sold is ok...served still a no no....

and I got to hear some advice and old war stories from him...seemed like a nice guy.

She said she would probably have not had a problem with me carrying if she had known me (I don't go often enough apparently)

So I asked her if she would remember me next time and she said that she hoped so (guess she was a bit freaked out too) and said next time maybe tell her when I come to the door.....

but not so sure it would be smart to say I gotta gun as I enter a liquor store.....

All and all a positive experience (minus the disarming) but thought it was worth it to go back in and make a case for us. Especially since she let me know she was armed. And somehow anyone with a gun on the right side makes me feel a bit safer.

What do you guys think? I did explain to her that some people might have been offended enough to take their business elsewhere, but since she had been so nice and I really liked their prices, that I had to come back in:)

[Rightwinger]

You'll probably get some of the swagger folks say they would not have disarmed and never come back but I think you did a wonderful job!

You showed a great attitude and worked with the operator/owner of the place and I think you would be clear to carry now with no reservations from her again. You also educated as you presented the rest of us in a good light to the owner.

If they did ask you to disarm again, I think at that point you could go the route of explaining you were not comfortable with that (more chances for incidents handling a firearm in the parking lot with more eyes) and tell them you would not continue your patronship of their establishment.

I think you did good! Now, go back next week for something small and cheap so you don't go all alcoholic on us and report back how it went.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Its always good to edumuhcate people about HCP's, gunowners, and gun laws. I think you did good.

[BBill_TN]

Thanks for the kudos Rightwinger. I think I might work the angle of trying to get the lady (she is the owner's wife...guess that makes her the real owner...lol) to pursue the permit route. The area is in a bad part of town (being a town that has nothing of a bad part compared to our metropolitan cousins)...and she expressed to me that when they were having problems with thugs, that the police promised to patrol more, but had never. Of course police resourses are stretched and I am sure that a concerted effort to make one business feel safe gets lost in the mix, so maybe we can get someone else taking responsibility for their own safety as well.

[Guest Astra900]

You did the right thing, but I would never shop there again. She probably couldn't care less, but it's the principal. There's very few places I will go that aren't carry friendly. If you choose to continue to trade there, it's no foul, but as for myself, if I can't carry, you're not getting my $$$

[BBill_TN]

but I think that I can carry there now:)......and with a bit more exposure I think that anyone could or at least they would be more receptive of it....that being said........I have over that past 14 months probably shopped there 15 times and always carried...just happened to get made this time........can't beleive I got made with my Kel-tec....have had my 5" Kimber IWB there before (with jacket though) ....lol.....

Guess this has to be my pet project. I am going to stop and talk to her husband Monday and see what he makes of it. I had a conversation with him after the incident on Whitebridge Road in Nashville where the HCP holder killed one perpetrator and injured the other in the liquor store robbery and he seemed to be on the good side there........just have to try to keep people less freaked out I guess. She was telling me about an ABC agent in her estabishment wearing a sidearm and not announcing himself........I educated them about open carry as well....(although I don't subscribe to that especially) but to tell you the truth....maybe that would have freaked them out less than my stealth (lol) PF-9. Still can't beleive the guy made me.......I wore it all summer in T-shirts and shorts, Don Hume IWB 4:30

[Fallguy]

Overall not a bad interaction. Good deal on educating them on the law. One problem is the ABC still requires places to post a sign that says it is illegal to carry firearms in a place that sells or serves alcoholic beverages. Saw one at the bar at Logan's in Jackson a couple of weeks ago. So no wonder there is confusion.

This is also a good example of why it is better to conceal well or open carry IMO. However I admit, when I CC I don't always worry about 100% concealment. But I think a handgun that looks like it was trying to be concealed, but becomes exposed obviously causes more trouble than one well concealed and maybe even more than one carried openly.

Of course OC in general and especially in a liquor store will probably require an immediate explanation of the law, that you have a HCP, etc...

I would go back.....if it appears they are going to always be anti-carry period....I may go elsewhere, if that is an option.

[Guest Metal]

After carrying for 14 months, I finally got called out on it. Ok folks; here's the story.

but not so sure it would be smart to say I gotta gun as I enter a liquor store.....

Let me know when you try this I would like to watch

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

You'll probably get some of the swagger folks say they would not have disarmed and never come back but I think you did a wonderful job!

You showed a great attitude and worked with the operator/owner of the place and I think you would be clear to carry now with no reservations from her again. You also educated as you presented the rest of us in a good light to the owner.

If they did ask you to disarm again, I think at that point you could go the route of explaining you were not comfortable with that (more chances for incidents handling a firearm in the parking lot with more eyes) and tell them you would not continue your patronship of their establishment.

I think you did good! Now, go back next week for something small and cheap so you don't go all alcoholic on us and report back how it went.

I admit that I fall into that category. BBill handled it well but I would have just politely set my stuff on the counter and said "I'm sorry you feel that way" and left. She seems conflicted to me. She says there is a rash of thugs, and that she is interested in getting a carry permit for herself, but she doesn't trust anybody else to legally carry in her place of business? I wonder if when she gets her permit, how she will feel if she gets 'made' someday and is asked to disarm. My guess is she will not be as understanding as BBill was.

[Guest bkelm18]

I say you did good. At least she isn't totally opposed to the idea and I think if you continue to shop there she will see that people with permits are just normal folks, not gun crazed lunatics. You have a chance at changing someones mind for the better.

[Punisher84]

I admit that I fall into that category. BBill handled it well but I would have just politely set my stuff on the counter and said "I'm sorry you feel that way" and left. She seems conflicted to me. She says there is a rash of thugs, and that she is interested in getting a carry permit for herself, but she doesn't trust anybody else to legally carry in her place of business? I wonder if when she gets her permit, how she will feel if she gets 'made' someday and is asked to disarm. My guess is she will not be as understanding as BBill was.

I feel the same way. Several months ago there was a shooting at a bike shop here in Memphis. The owner was a really nice lady who witnessed the whole event. She got her permit and I spoke with her several times when I'd see her at the range. She expressed an intent at one point to put up the T.C.A sign in her shop and several of us who ride/shoot tried to talk her out of it.

I went in the other day to get a helmet...I can't describe to you how big this sign was. It was a stand alone sign posted right in front of the door that was probably 4 feet tall and 2 feet wide. With the exact wording. Since I was already there I went ahead and picked up my helmet, but as I was getting rung up I told the guy who was checking me out "Tell your boss I said that sign cost her me and my friends' business from now until she removes it." and walked out.

I think the OP did a good job of handling the situation, but I would have either walked out or (like I did in my case) never shop there again.

[Guest db99wj]

I think you did a great job, not big on disarming, but I would give her one more chance. If the next time, you get resistance, it would be my last time in there.

[Guest justme]

You'll probably get some of the swagger folks say they would not have disarmed and never come back but I think you did a wonderful job!

You showed a great attitude and worked with the operator/owner of the place and I think you would be clear to carry now with no reservations from her again. You also educated as you presented the rest of us in a good light to the owner.

If they did ask you to disarm again, I think at that point you could go the route of explaining you were not comfortable with that (more chances for incidents handling a firearm in the parking lot with more eyes) and tell them you would not continue your patronship of their establishment.

I think you did good! Now, go back next week for something small and cheap so you don't go all alcoholic on us and report back how it went.

I have to say that I would fall into that category in that I would have politely left my items and told the person that I'm sorry you feel that way, but I don't trust my safety to anyone that I don't know, and I would have left.

I do think you did the right thing by taking your gun outside, but personally when I did so--I would have left and went somewhere else.

bottom line--retailers need our money more than we need their products.

[memphismason]

I think you handled the situation very nicely. I would tend to think that I would have went to the car, disarmed, cam back in and had the same conversation. Before leaving I would ask, "So the next time I come back in, I will be carrying, will I be accepted?" If her reply was no, then I would leave the products on the counter, and inform her that I would be taking my business else where.

You handled it great, and informed them of the laws, just as you should (without mentioning the proper signage +1). However, I would have only added the part about coming back carrying, and if that was not ok you will be shopping somewhere else. It doesn't hurt for them to know how passionate we are about this, and it could cause them to change their policy. Maybe.

[BBill_TN]

Update

Ok fellas. I got off work early today and swung by the store in question to speak to the owner.

I now have a bit of mixed feeling, but maybe in time it will work itself out.

Turns out that she is not the owner's wife...not sure about the relationship or just employee. I informed him of the situation, of which he was already aware. I reminded him that I frequented his store on a weekly basis during football season for the 6 years I had season tickets. I explained to him that 218,000 Tennesseans had permits and that I would like to continue to patronize his store but I wanted to make sure everything was ok with him for me to do so.

He thanked me for coming in and told me that he had been a bit concerned about the situation. But he did express his uncomfortableness with people being armed in his store, but I think this was mostly that he was concerned with people's reactions when they see guns. He said that he would rather that I would leave it in the car, but that if I did bring it in to make sure to keep it concealed.

Not sure if this is a victory or not, but guess it is definitely not a defeat.

So at this point I guess I just conceal and continue to shop there, but making sure to go in while the owner is there and maybe he will soften a bit.

That being said when I spoke to him about the incident at the liquor store in Nashville a while back where the HCP holder saved the day...he was all for it back then....guess some people like the right results but have a hard time getting their mind around what it takes to get those results or at least have a chance for those results.

[gsbell]

****ing hypocrites it's ok for them but not for you? Send him copies of your receipts from another liquor store.

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

Update

Ok fellas. I got off work early today and swung by the store in question to speak to the owner.

I now have a bit of mixed feeling, but maybe in time it will work itself out.

Turns out that she is not the owner's wife...not sure about the relationship or just employee. I informed him of the situation, of which he was already aware. I reminded him that I frequented his store on a weekly basis during football season for the 6 years I had season tickets. I explained to him that 218,000 Tennesseans had permits and that I would like to continue to patronize his store but I wanted to make sure everything was ok with him for me to do so.

He thanked me for coming in and told me that he had been a bit concerned about the situation. But he did express his uncomfortableness with people being armed in his store, but I think this was mostly that he was concerned with people's reactions when they see guns. He said that he would rather that I would leave it in the car, but that if I did bring it in to make sure to keep it concealed.

Not sure if this is a victory or not, but guess it is definitely not a defeat.

So at this point I guess I just conceal and continue to shop there, but making sure to go in while the owner is there and maybe he will soften a bit.

That being said when I spoke to him about the incident at the liquor store in Nashville a while back where the HCP holder saved the day...he was all for it back then....guess some people like the right results but have a hard time getting their mind around what it takes to get those results or at least have a chance for those results.

Ok, having this additional information I now have a new/additional concern. The gentlemen kinda sorta is ok with you carrying as long as he doesn't see it. So what happens if/when you are in there buying tailgate party supplies and something goes down. If you respond by drawing your weapon etc... - what is to stop him from later saying "I told that guy before not to bring his gun in here!" or something similar. I know that is all speculation but it underscores (for me) that the whole situation is way more clumsy and questionable than it should be.

[Mike.357]

One problem is the ABC still requires places to post a sign that says it is illegal to carry firearms in a place that sells or serves alcoholic beverages.

I can honestly say I have only seen the correct old signage in one package store in east TN. So I am not sure if ABC requires it any more.

As for this store in the original post, I would have politely told them I will be happy to take my business elsewhere. Not going to leave the pistol in the car then come back in and spend my money.

[Fallguy]

I can honestly say I have only seen the correct old signage in one package store in east TN. So I am not sure if ABC requires it any more.

As for this store in the original post, I would have politely told them I will be happy to take my business elsewhere. Not going to leave the pistol in the car then come back in and spend my money.

It's still on the books is all I know.

57-4-203(k) Sign Required — Penalty for Noncompliance.

(1)

Each holder of a license to sell wine or other alcoholic beverages for on the premises consumption shall display in a prominent place at the location where such sales are permitted a sign, at least six inches (6") high and fourteen inches (14") wide stating:

MISDEMEANOR. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF ELEVEN (11) MONTHS TWENTY-NINE (29) DAYS IMPRISONMENT

AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($2,500) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS WHERE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES ARE SOLD OR SERVED.

(2)

Failure by such licensee to comply with the provisions of subdivision (k)(1) is a Class C misdemeanor.

[G27]

You obviously don't drink enough.

[memphismason]

Ok, having this additional information I now have a new/additional concern. The gentlemen kinda sorta is ok with you carrying as long as he doesn't see it. So what happens if/when you are in there buying tailgate party supplies and something goes down. If you respond by drawing your weapon etc... - what is to stop him from later saying "I told that guy before not to bring his gun in here!" or something similar. I know that is all speculation but it underscores (for me) that the whole situation is way more clumsy and questionable than it should be.

That is a valid point.

[Mike.357]

You obviously don't drink enough.

not sure if that is directed at me, I hardly drink at all anymore.

But I am in the business and therefore in a lot of liquor stores from time to time. No one except Bob's has this sign that I have seen.

[G27]

not sure if that is directed at me, I hardly drink at all anymore.

But I am in the business and therefore in a lot of liquor stores from time to time. No one except Bob's has this sign that I have seen.

I meant the OP, the owner's wife didn't recognize him...

'Twas a failure in an attempt to make a joke.

[Guest mustangdave]

I'm thinking that until proprietors get a grip on the "new" laws...we're going to bump heads on this issue...certainly hitting them in the purse strings will open their eyes and doors a bit more. I doubt though that it will do anything to change attitudes. My advise...use common sense...don't put yourself in a bad situation...know the area...etc.

[Guest archerdr1]

(1) Each holder of a license to sell wine or other alcoholic beverages for on the premises consumption shall display in a prominent place at the location where such sales are permitted a sign, at least six inches (6") high and fourteen inches (14") wide stating:

MISDEMEANOR. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF ELEVEN (11) MONTHS TWENTY-NINE (29) DAYS IMPRISONMENT AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($2,500) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS WHERE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES ARE SOLD OR SERVED.

would negate the need for having this in gas stations and liquor stores... only restaurants.