Glock knock offs wtf!

[scatman]

3 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Ergonomics are purely subjective (some actually prefer the Glock grip angle) and tighter tolerances on a polymer frame gun sounds like more marketing gimmicks.  What specific upgrades will save a buyer money?  

I myself am one that doesn't mind Glock's grip. I own plenty, coming up on more over the next couple weeks thanks to some fellow members here, and to get an optic cut on my OEM glock side is going to cost me $300, that's half the price of a brand new Gen5, and unless I'm mistaken, Shadow Systems uses a design similar to FN's 509 tactical that allows for a wide range of optics. Unless you have gen3, then you could just order a new slide, but that's still at least $200, and that's just a bare slide, with an optic cut, it will likely still need iron sights, another $20 at least, if you just buy a blacked out set. Now to trigger upgrades. OEM glock trigger pull is 6.2, 5.9, or 5.6 lbs depending on your model, I dont know about other clones, but Shadow System trigger pull is lighter, and IMO smoother, feels like my Zev trigger on my OEM glock. 

[deerslayer]

$300 to get a slide milled for a dot is outrageous.  Are they also refinishing the entire slide?  
 

Has SS changed the design and function of the Glock trigger (like Timney did)?  If not, for $30 and an hour of time, you change the connector and striker spring and polish a couple areas and get results similar to what the $200 aftermarket triggers offer.  This is mostly what they are doing. 

[Chucktshoes]

2 hours ago, deerslayer said:

Again, I’m not well versed on SS.  How do you mount different footprints without plates?  Do they offer multiple slides pre-cut for different optics?  I’m aware of the benefits and disadvantages of miiled vs plate (one less failure point/lower mounting vs being married to a certain footprint).  I have both.  Milling a slide is not particularly expensive; the last time I looked into it, it was going to cost me around $150 for a G17, but I would save $50 or so by not needing an MOS gun.  
 

No plates, not individual slides. One slide fits almost them all. It’s milled for direct mounting for essentially all major footprints. It utilizes a spacer that goes in front or behind the optic depending on the footprint. 
 

https://shadowsystemscorp.com/opticcut/

[deerslayer]

6 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

No plates, not individual slides. One slide fits almost them all. It’s milled for direct mounting for essentially all major footprints. It utilizes a spacer that goes in front or behind the optic depending on the footprint. 
 

https://shadowsystemscorp.com/opticcut/

That's pretty interesting.  How do they address the different mounting posts/slots that some dots use?  I don't think they are a huge deal, but they do theoretically help secure the dot.  

[Chucktshoes]

I’ll be honest, mine came with its optic pre-mounted and I’ve had zero reason to take it off, so I haven’t. I think this short video should help provide a little more clarity on how they go about it. 

 

 

[deerslayer]

38 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

I’ll be honest, mine came with its optic pre-mounted and I’ve had zero reason to take it off, so I haven’t. I think this short video should help provide a little more clarity on how they go about it. 

 

 

I like it, especially those bigger-than-typical mounting screws.  

Edited August 30, 2022 by deerslayer

[Chucktshoes]

4 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

I like it, especially those bigger-than-typical mounting screws.  

[deerslayer]

CZ Custom's RDS red dot mounting system uses plates that slide into a groove they mill into the slide and IT AIN'T GOING NOWHERE.  Even though RDS uses a plate, it mounts the dot LOW.  I have an SP-01 with a DPP (a relatively tall dot), and it's so low I can use a standard front sight through the glass.  Of course, it does Glock shooters no good lol

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by deerslayer

[deerslayer]

4 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

I'm good

[TGO David]

I loved my Shadow Systems MR920 but I love my Agency Syndicate slide with the Agency Optics System (AOS) mounting plates even better.  It's pretty similar to the CZ Customs configuration that @deerslayer mentioned, above, and opens the door for compatibility to a variety of optics.

I've got a Holosun HE509T-X2 green dot on mine and it's  nice.

If I were a smarter man, I'd probably buy a Gen 3 compatible AOS slide and an MR920 frame and put the two together.  That would probably be the end-all be-all.  As is, I'm making do with an actual Glock Gen 5 G19 frame, like some sort of peasant.

 

[JohnSutton1980]

4 hours ago, TGO David said:

I loved my Shadow Systems MR920 but I love my Agency Syndicate slide with the Agency Optics System (AOS) mounting plates even better.  It's pretty similar to the CZ Customs configuration that @deerslayer mentioned, above, and opens the door for compatibility to a variety of optics.

I've got a Holosun HE509T-X2 green dot on mine and it's  nice.

If I were a smarter man, I'd probably buy a Gen 3 compatible AOS slide and an MR920 frame and put the two together.  That would probably be the end-all be-all.  As is, I'm making do with an actual Glock Gen 5 G19 frame, like some sort of peasant.

 

I have a newer Gen 3 Glock 32. Using a new Glock 23 barrel. With the OEM slide just night sights. LWD slide with Trijicon optic MRM cut for a 19 with Threaded barrel. Also a Advantage Arms 22lr conversion. 
I know that’s a lot but basically all on the same frame. I can use 4 different calibers. 2 for EDC and 2 for plinking! 
I would say, that I sir, have the end all be all pistol!

[TGO David]

@Chucktshoes - I just noticed this on CHPWS' website. 

Shadow Systems Aftermarket Slide to Holosun 509T (PREORDER) - C&H Precision Weapons (chpws.com)

 

[Chucktshoes]

That’s a great product for them to put out. I imagine they’ve got an Acro plate in the works as well. 

[tacops]

So, today I took delivery on a PSAK GF3 AK47 MOEKOV in flat dark earth furniture and a Dagger compact (Gen 3 Glock 19 Clone) with Doctor cut slide, threaded barrel, carry cut slide, suppressor height sites, (which co-witness with the Vortex Venom 6moa on the work bench waiting to be installed). I bought this as a two weapon bundle which also had the PSA pistol/magazine soft case for $799 plus tax and free shipping.  Note, this was ERAY's fault because he closed the ad on his PSA AK before I spoke for it which caused me to actually open the PSA emails again after I tried so desperately to quit doing so, which resulted in my finger dancing on the buy button.

I have not fired either as yet but will very soon.  I have read the above and take no issue with anyone's opinion, and will gladly share my own  about the Dagger since I am posting in the handgun string.  I will say that I do own a Glock 17 because if you wish to bash anything about a Glock you have to own one for bashing rights  (insert emoji so as to not light any fuses).  I have always acknowledged the reliability of Glocks, I just hated the feel of them in my hand.  I have tried to convince myself multiple times to buy a Glock 19 but could not get past the feel test, pick it up, nope same as last time I tried. Enough about Glock, I bought the Dagger based solely on reviews, price point and I wanted to try to cross the threshold into optic adorned handguns.  Right out of the box my first thought was, this ain't a Glock 19 clone. Yea, yea I got it, interchangeable parts and all that, but I couldn't get myself to buy a 19 the first time and depending on how this Dagger shoots I will probably be buying more of them.  The grip reminded me of my P229 and P226s only a touch thinner over all, as opposed to the 1x3 board feel of the 19. (Opinion only) I thought the suppressor height sights looked funky in the profile pic on PSA but I actually like them when sighting through them, even my old man eyes could pick up a sight picture with and without glasses.  I will mount the venom to the slide (Doctor cut, no plates required) and have co-witness, so as the sights go, I give it a win. The magazine protruding as it does also looked awkward to me in the pics yet it actually gave my pinky a place to be rather than swimming around below the grip looking for a home as was the case on the G19.  The vertical slide cuts fore and aft of ejection port are suitably deep to provide a sure grip for weapon charging as well as chamber checks. Did I mention the Dagger has a steel guide rod, yep. As for the "Extreme Carry Cuts" as advertised.  I don't really know how much is gained regarding carry comfort or holstering etc. But I have to say that to me the weapon appearance is far more appealing with the faceted design.  For now I consider the Dagger a win, yet final decision depends on range (backyard) performance.  I will share that assessment in a much shorter post, I promise.

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by tacops

[eRay]

1 hour ago, tacops said:

So, today I took delivery on a PSAK GF3 AK47 MOEKOV in flat dark earth furniture and a Dagger compact (Gen 3 Glock 19 Clone) with Doctor cut slide, threaded barrel, carry cut slide, suppressor height sites, (which co-witness with the Vortex Venom 6moa on the work bench waiting to be installed). I bought this as a two weapon bundle which also had the PSA pistol/magazine soft case for $799 plus tax and free shipping.  Note, this was ERAY's fault because he closed the ad on his PSA AK before I spoke for it which caused me to actually open the PSA emails again after I tried so desperately to quit doing so, which resulted in my finger dancing on the buy button.

I have not fired either as yet but will very soon.  I have read the above and take no issue with anyone's opinion, and will gladly share my own  about the Dagger since I am posting in the handgun string.  I will say that I do own a Glock 17 because if you wish to bash anything about a Glock you have to own one for bashing rights  (insert emoji so as to not light any fuses).  I have always acknowledged the reliability of Glocks, I just hated the feel of them in my hand.  I have tried to convince myself multiple times to buy a Glock 19 but could not get past the feel test, pick it up, nope same as last time I tried. Enough about Glock, I bought the Dagger based solely on reviews, price point and I wanted to try to cross the threshold into optic adorned handguns.  Right out of the box my first thought was, this ain't a Glock 19 clone. Yea, yea I got it, interchangeable parts and all that, but I couldn't get myself to buy a 19 the first time and depending on how this Dagger shoots I will probably be buying more of them.  The grip reminded me of my P229 and P226s only a touch thinner over all, as opposed to the 1x3 board feel of the 19. (Opinion only) I thought the suppressor height sights looked funky in the profile pic on PSA but I actually like them when sighting through them, even my old man eyes could pick up a sight picture with and without glasses.  I will mount the venom to the slide (Doctor cut, no plates required) and have co-witness, so as the sights go, I give it a win. The magazine protruding as it does also looked awkward to me in the pics yet it actually gave my pinky a place to be rather than swimming around below the grip looking for a home as was the case on the G19.  The vertical slide cuts fore and aft of ejection port are suitably deep to provide a sure grip for weapon charging as well as chamber checks. Did I mention the Dagger has a steel guide rod, yep. As for the "Extreme Carry Cuts" as advertised.  I don't really know how much is gained regarding carry comfort or holstering etc. But I have to say that to me the weapon appearance is far more appealing with the faceted design.  For now I consider the Dagger a win, yet final decision depends on range (backyard) performance.  I will share that assessment in a much shorter post, I promise.

 

I'm the same way about AK's that you are about Glocks. I've bought a half dozen of them over the years and they are as reliable as a Glock but I just can not force myself to like them. The PSA is as well finished and fitted as any I have owned. I think I will never shoot it and should sell it then I think if I sell it one day I will turn around and buy another so I decide to keep it. Life is tough. I have 2 Ruger Mini 30 tacticals and a Ruger American Ranch rifle in 7.62 x 39 so I don't really need an AK but it is like a Glock, everyone thinks they should have one. 

[tacops]

45 minutes ago, Eray said:

I have 2 Ruger Mini 30 tacticals and a Ruger American Ranch rifle in 7.62 x 39 so I don't really need an AK but it is like a Glock, everyone thinks they should have one. 

I would like to have a Mini 30 but just cannot get OK with todays prices for them.  Which is also why I now have the PSAK GF3.  Plus with them offering the bundle price and free shipping, what's a man to do? 

[Murgatroy]

I am a Glock guy. I have several, big fan of the them. I carry Gen 3s as part of my EDC.

 

A while back I was on PSA's site and saw the Dagger, and I thought, hell, why not. I bought a complete lower. Swapped the trigger out for a flat tradition trigger and not the hinged S&W style it came with. I built a custom slide for it and loved it. I loved it so much I bought another one, and did the same thing for a matched pair.

So I am on a roll, building a Glock is fun. Then Lone Wolf did their Freedom Wolf 80% lowers on sale for like $50. I bought more than a few of them. Unlike the Dagger, or many of the other lowers out there, these can be build completely with aftermarket or factory parts. You don't have to use fancy locking blocks with built in rails or any of that jazz. I have build several from the ground up. My favorite is pretty snazzy with lots of shiny parts. I have no doubt at this point it cost me twice what a stock Glock would have. 

Many of the 'Clones' out there that have a higher price than a stock Glock of similar size come with all the upgraded features. New spring set, custom trigger pack, cut slide, threaded barrels, changes to the grip angle. You are getting a lot of custom features on the gun.

I like building them. I carry my Glocks bone stock, but the clones and aftermarket make for a lot of fun building fancy BBQ guns or range toys.

[Capbyrd]

On 8/29/2022 at 9:25 PM, deerslayer said:

I like it, especially those bigger-than-typical mounting screws.  

If you wanna try one out, you have my number.  I’ve been carrying a MR920 for over a year and I love the gun.  

[tacops]

So, it took me a while to get around to shooting the new Compact Dagger I wrote about above.  I had a medical hiccup that put me out for a bit but I am good to go now.  I went out back and fired several rounds to determine how the sights were.  Iron sights were pretty much on.  The dagger shot very well and felt very good in my hand.  I used both Pmag as well as Glock mags in it with no problems out of either.  What surprised me the most was the trigger.  I had read several negative posts about the factory trigger on the Dagger.  On mine, once you take up the slack it broke clean and crisp. I really couldn't ask for better.  I mounted the Vortex Venom and went out back to continue shooting.  On the second Mag the venom turned off.  I looked down and saw that the battery cover and battery were not there.  I searched for an hour and could not find either in the grass. When I put the battery in I wondered whether I had the cover on properly but since it worked I "assumed" it was.  It wasn't.  My Bad.  I called Vortex and told them what happened and asked if I could order a new cover.  The guy asked for may address and said a new cover was headed my way, no charge. He also asked for my email address to send more detailed instructions on the install of the cover since they are tricky the first time.  That is service.  I will be buying more Vortex products, and probably more Daggers.

[Moped]

The Dagger uses Glock 15 and 17 mags, correct? 

[Chucktshoes]

Yup. 

[tacops]

That's correct.

[Moped]

I hate you guys.  Every time I get to the point of saying I'm not going to buy any more guns, along comes some yahoo, that gets me revved up again.  Now I want the Doctor Cut Dagger!  But it will have to wait till I get my Ruger PCC out of Layaway (next month). Damn... 

[TNGunLover186]

Turns out Anderson, the same company that makes AR lowers and other parts, is now making a Glock 19 clone as well. I believe it is called the Kiger 9C. I don't have much information regarding when it is coming to market or what the retail cost is going to be, but it seems to be another good little Glock clone. However, I am still partial to the G23. I know that 40S&W is a controversial round, as some 9mm rounds can achieve similar ballistics and 10mm is more powerful, but the G23 allows you to utilize 4 different rounds through conversion barrels or kits, which I find to be interesting.