Super accurate ARs?

[Capbyrd]

1 hour ago, DL126 said:

I have witnessed an over torqued muzzle device cause groups go to crap as well.

Some folks don't believe it can happen ... but it can.
I did it.
It was on my first build several years ago as I was experimenting with different type devices.
Fortunately, when I loosened it a bit, groups came back together.

Nowadays, whatever muzzle device I use is hand tight with blue loctite under it.
I don't use any that require timing.

1 of 2 things were happening.  
 

1. the muzzle device was acting like a tuner.
2. You created an anomaly in the crown   
 

either way, it’s about timing more than torque.   

[aknifemaker]

Hard to tell from the pictures both it looks like both rifles have A2 type flash hiders, top slotted, bottoms solid. That uneven pressure at the muzzle can open up your groups also. Easy enough to take one off and see if it changes anything.

[Skyyr]

Ammo and barrel are the two biggest factors. 

The first thing you need to obtain is quality ammo. If the ammo cannot consistently hold sub-MOA, nothing else matters. Most commercial ammo and surplus general-issue ammo (which is generally just rejected mil-issue surplus) will shoot between 2-3MOA. Quality sub-MOA ammo runs $1-2 a round. Typically, the 69gr through 77gr BTJHP rounds have the best performance, depending on your specific barrel. The absolute best (generally speaking) are the rounds based on the Mk 262 round.

Secondly, comes the barrel. You need a barrel capable of said sub-MOA precision. Is it possible to get one of these off a standard production line by chance? Yes, but it's very rare. If you want a guaranteed sub-MOA barrel, you need to pay for it. Every high-end manufacturer has their own variation of some accuracy-build, but few build true match-grade barrels.

Everything else is in how the gun comes together. Can you throw a good barrel and ammo on a gun yourself and make it work? Sure, but it takes experience to know what other minor things affect accuracy. Because of this, it's far easier to buy a completed rifle from a manufacturer that builds precision rigs than it is to try to build your own (or hope to simply throw a better barrel on a typical production rifle like a Colt).

That's why it gets expensive.

As far as recommendations, Noveske rifles have traditionally been (or at least were) the sweet spot of being highly accurate out of the box without paying for a full custom rifle (I'm not so sure what their current production quality looks like).

There's another manufacturer (their name eludes me) who has a guaranteed .5 MOA build, but their guns run about $5k new.

If it was me and my money, I would look into the Crane SPR builds. The Navy's NWSC put money into developing a highly accurized M4, known as the Special Purpose Rifle (SPR). It's since been mostly retired, but it consisted of an 18" barreled medium contour build and was easily sub-MOA. They're very popular as clone projects, and sourcing the original parts can be quite challenging.

That said, Precision Reflex was involved with sourcing many of the parts for the original SPRs and they now sell complete SPR uppers, as well as the components needed to assemble them. These are in the ballpark of just under $2k and are generally sub-MOA, albeit that's for the upper.

What many shooters end up doing is starting with basic idea of the 18" SPR and modifying it from there. Most accurized AR15s end up being some sort of SPR-like variant. 

That's where I'd start. 

[Skyyr]

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Edited August 27, 2022 by Skyyr

[Grayfox54]

This thread originally started out as just my curiosity, but sorta got away from me. 

I've learned a lot here, so thanks for that. But as I've said all along, I'm just not an AR guy. 

I had both rifles at the range on Thursday. Capbyrd was kind enough to give me an accu-wedge to try. Thanks again Sir! I think it helped a little, but no great improvement. I do realize that I am gonna have to start reloading 5.56. But I currently have other irons in the fire. I'll get to that eventually. 

I've come to the conclusion that both rifles are combat accurate and that's good enough for me. So I'm just gonna live with 'em as they are. 

Thanks again to everybody who contributed to this thread. Its been quite informative.