What realistically are the chances of the rest & park bills passing?

[Guest slim]

I just would like to know with all the post-phonements of both of the these, if there is a real chance of both passing, since it seems to me at least that there is a lot of opposition at least to these two.

[Sheepdog]

I can't give you any mathematical probabilities.

But the chances *will* improve if you call your State representatives and tell them what you want.

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

its purely an educated guess based on history of the TN legislature. I would say that the changes are considerably better now than they were when Jimmy Neifeh was speaker. He pretty much single-handedly shut down all proposed gun legislation for several years. Now that he is 'just one vote' and can't control which ones of his underlings are on the committees etc.. I think they have a pretty good shot at passing. To my knowledge the restaurant carry bill has nevery made it out of the Crim Practice and Procedures subcommittee in the past years.

[Guest JHatmaker]

What ended up happening with the bills last night? Did they get postponed?

I was following the other thread and it just kinda ended...

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

"held on Desk"

HB 0962 didn't get voted on, it was held by the sponsor for some reason that I missed. It is not yet back on the calendar that I can find.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Both bills have issues they are looking at... I think they will add ammendments to both.

[Guest Sec334]

I talked to my State Rep about 3 weeks ago. He said the one thing they (Republicans) wanted to do was pass these handgun bills in this legislative term. I thanked him for his time and effort.

[Guest slim]

Look's like neither will make it!

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

HB 0962 (restaurant carry) is scheduled for House vote today - 5pm. Looking through the list of amendments that Hardaway has proposed, I will be amazed if this doesn't get delayed further. He is obviously trying to make it very difficult, cumbersome and expensive for restaurants to "not" post off-limits in the event that it passes.

For example:

Amendment 0063 basically says that even if it does pass - Shelby county will not be included because of the population

Amendment 0064 says basically that if a restaurant does NOT post then they will be forced to "train all of its employees on observing and preventing situations involving customers during which an altercation may occur or where it appears as if a customer is losing self-control or becoming confrontation or violent..."

Amendment 0065 basically says that any restaurant that does not post will be required to post an armed security gaurd 'to protect the restaurants patrons'. that one is amazingly basackwards in my view.

Amendment 0066 requires restaurants that do not post, to maintain $5 million liability insurance policy "designed to cover customers and employees for any property damage, injury or death that they may suffer as a result of an handgun related accidcent on intentional act commited by a person AUTHORIZED TO CARRY A FIREARM PURSUANT TO 39-17-1351 (the carry permit law).

There are others but those are the ones that really got me going this morning.

http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/default.aspx?BillNumber=HB0962

[Guest db99wj]

I sent an email Thursday to Todd and Hardaway on Thursday, I haven't heard back from either one, not even a nice automated bs response. I just recent my questions on Rep Todd's feeling of what is going to happen, pass, postpone or fail. Hopefully I will hear back.

[Guest tadams]

Amendment 0063 basically says that even if it does pass - Shelby county will not be included because of the population

Amendment 0064 says basically that if a restaurant does NOT post then they will be forced to "train all of its employees on observing and preventing situations involving customers during which an altercation may occur or where it appears as if a customer is losing self-control or becoming confrontation or violent..."

Amendment 0065 basically says that any restaurant that does not post will be required to post an armed security gaurd 'to protect the restaurants patrons'. that one is amazingly basackwards in my view.

Amendment 0066 requires restaurants that do not post, to maintain $5 million liability insurance policy "designed to cover customers and employees for any property damage, injury or death that they may suffer as a result of an handgun related accidcent on intentional act commited by a person AUTHORIZED TO CARRY A FIREARM PURSUANT TO 39-17-1351 (the carry permit law).

While all of those are seditiously ignorant, Amend. 63 sounds downright unconstitutional.

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

Yea, Hardaway proposed that one and he is Memphis. He and Naifeh are pretty much in lock step I guess. They would prefer that Memphis become the Chicago of our state and dictate what the rest of the state does based on their inability to deal with crime.

[Guest db99wj]

Hardaway represents one of the most armed areas of Memphis, illegally armed areas that is. Orange Mound is part of his area.

[Mike.357]

I am guessing these two bills have a chance of passing somewhere between slim and none.

if I had to pick one or the other to pass I vote for the parks.

[analog_kidd]

Exactly how does the bill get ammended? and if any Joe Blow proposes an ammendment, does it have to get added? I can't imagine a majority of the Rep's voting "aye" on these rediculous changes.

[Punisher84]

Here's the latest news article on it. Apparently Brian Kelsey is trying to kill the 11pm amendment.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/mar/30/guns--restaurants-bill-delayed-week-after-setback-/?partner=yahoo_headlines

NASHVILLE — The sponsor of the bill allowing people with handgun-carry permits to carry their guns into restaurants serving alcohol postponed a vote on the bill for a week after a 40-minute debate tonight.

Rep. Curry Todd, R-Collierville, the bill’s sponsor, abruptly moved for the postponement and Shelby County colleague Rep. Brian Kelsey tried to remove a provision of the bill that would prohibit guns in restaurants serving alcohol after 11 p.m.

Kelsey, R-Germantown, argued that because the bill already contains a provision banning guns in restaurants that limit admission to patrons age 18 and up — under the theory that such places are more bar than restaurant — there is no need for an 11 p.m. curfew on carry-permit holders in restaurants.

“This simply clarifies the situation that guns are not to be allowed in bars but they are allowed in restaurants,†Kelsey said. “It eliminates the need for a restaurant owner to flick the lights at 11 o’clock and say all guns out at this point. And it clarifies, most importantly, for law enforcement that some establishments — restaurants — allow guns but bars do not.â€

But Todd argued that the 11 p.m. curfew on guns in restaurants serving alcohol was another safeguard put into the bill to try to keep guns out of places that primarily serve alcohol. He said the Tennessee Hospitality Association, which lobbies for restaurants and opposes the bill in its entirety, told him that little food is served in most restaurants after 11 p.m. Todd said that although he originally opposed the 11 p.m. curfew, he agreed to it in a House handgun study committee last month as a compromise.

Todd moved to table Kelsey’s amendment but his motion failed when only 32 members voted with him and 61 opposed it — signaling that Kelsey’s amendment was likely headed toward passage. When his tabling motion failed, Todd postponed further action until next Monday.

There are 12 other proposed amendments awaiting debate when the bill comes up for a vote again — most of them attempts to place restrictions on the guns and to require restaurant owners that allow guns in their businesses to carry liability insurance.

Under current Tennessee law, the state’s 220,000 handgun-carry permit holders — plus those from other states — are legally allowed to carry their guns into restaurants that do not serve alcohol. Todd’s bill would extend that to restaurants serving alcohol as long as the permit-holder is not drinking alcohol.

It is one of several bills advancing through the General Assembly that would broaden the places where carry-permit holders can take their guns, and would close off public access to information about the licensees and the entire permit program.

[Guest nraforlife]

Oh well... Doesn't look like legal carry in a restaurant or park is probably going to make it this year or anytime REAL soon. That is unless a real SHTF incident occurs and its either carry or stay home and watch the neighborhood go up in flames.

Guess its Take Out Taxi and reruns of Grizzly Adams for the foreseeable future.

[Fallguy]

While all of those are seditiously ignorant, Amend. 63 sounds downright unconstitutional.

Not arguing whether it is constitutional or not, but if you look through the T.C.A. there are many laws that apply or don't apply to counties with a X population as of Y census.

Figure it would have been challenged by now if it was unconstitutional.

As far as passage goes..... I can't stand to watch the day to day of it anymore...I get too mad. I just have to keep checking here with y'all.

[Guest tadams]

Not arguing whether it is constitutional or not, but if you look through the T.C.A. there are many laws that apply or don't apply to counties with a X population as of Y census.

Figure it would have been challenged by now if it was unconstitutional.

As far as passage goes..... I can't stand to watch the day to day of it anymore...I get too mad. I just have to keep checking here with y'all.

I'm with what you're saying; I really am. I also realize that all that I'm about to type is in vain and relatively meaningless. Hopefully, though, it will make someone who may not understand what is going on see the light, or make someone who does understand finally take a stand and openly say, "NO MORE."

On what little I'm aware of the other laws of specifying who gets what, etc, based from census counts and so forth, they are to rightfully determine how money is distributed for a particular need or for some reasoning that is, at least somewhat, fair. (as best as they saw from their given options of the time) Off the top of your head can you think of any of those that specifically remove the state's interpretation of how to frame a basic right (in this case,the second amendment) to ALL its people?

I mean, as it's left up to the state to determine how to issue the right to carry and how/ where to determine where that right can/ can't be used... How can the state be allowed to tell anyone that in just that one particular county of the state, an individual no longer has the same right to act in defense of their own life (or what style of writing pen they can purchase), as he/she does elsewhere in the state; that somehow the life of any citizen who ventures into just one particular county voluntarily makes their own life less valuable by living/ working/ visiting/ traveling through/ or in this case EATING within the imaginary lines of THAT one specific county? To me that makes for a black/white, open/shut clearly blatant situation of discrimination. Such an act could even be argued to be based on racial prejudices and profiling and end up in courts for a decade, further wasting TN taxpayer dollars.

Next I ask of anybody.... What sort of jackass would suggest such an irresponsible complication to a bill which is already mired in what may, quite possibly, be irreconcilably predestined for failure? I don't care if this idiot is for or against it, but how dare he just make matters worse for either side to make any sense of. I understand this means he's against. I'm just saying I'm especially intolerant of his method. People like that need a good, old fashioned bitch-slap. (Can I say that on here? edit if necessary, but I'll still feel the same way)

Obviously, Fall-guy, the whole deal gets my BVD's in a wad, as well. Ignorance isn't bliss. I get snippets on the news and laugh and argue back with what or how something was said, in complete disgust. I've gotten tired of wiping the spittle off the screen. While still not perfect, I watch mostly Glenn Beck and avoid the other "news." At least I know that if somebody says something as remotely ignorant as the main-stream unaccountables spit out, Glenn will speak back for me and I don't have to yell at the TV.

The day-to-day of it is just disgusting. Maybe we should start yet another support group, Steve? lol What do you want to call it?

[Glock30Owner]

Lets assume, for a moment, that one or both of these bills passes and is sent to the governor for signing. Will the governor sign, leave unsigned for eventual passage into law, or veto?

[RinTN]

Lets assume, for a moment, that one or both of these bills passes and is sent to the governor for signing. Will the governor sign, leave unsigned for eventual passage into law, or veto?

I've been wondering the same thing, in part based on our neighbor's actions.

Saturday, March 28, 2009

In his attempt to appease his liberal, anti-gun colleagues as the new Chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Governor Tim Kaine (D) opposed retired law enforcement officers, members of the U.S. Armed Services (including the Virginia National Guard), and law-abiding Right-to-Carry permit holders by vetoing five pro-gun bills. Senate Bill 1035, Senate Bill 877, Senate Bill 1528, House Bill 1851, and House Bill 2528 were passed with strong bi-partisan support in both the Senate and House. ...

[Fallguy]

<sinp> The day-to-day of it is just disgusting. Maybe we should start yet another support group, Steve? lol What do you want to call it?

I hear ya. The first thing on the laws and census figures that come to my mind is constables. There are some counties that no longer have elected constables and/or the constable has no LE powers. However that is really not the same as something being legal in all other counties in the state but illegal in one, like this proposed amendment.

As far as the support group......Guess TGO is a pretty good one...lol

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

Oh well... Doesn't look like legal carry in a restaurant or park is probably going to make it this year or anytime REAL soon. That is unless a real SHTF incident occurs and its either carry or stay home and watch the neighborhood go up in flames.

Guess its Take Out Taxi and reruns of Grizzly Adams for the foreseeable future.

Actually, in the email correspondence that I have had with legislators, I think these bills do stand a reasonable chance of passing. Otherwise they would not spend so much time arguing and attempting to amend them etc... Approx. 25% of the TN legislature are HCP holders themselves (even some democrats) and many of them want these bills as badly as we do.

[Guest Seminole]

They certainly stand a better chance of passing if we contact the members of the House and inform them of our desire for their passage. An e-mail and a phone call cost little more than time. It would be a shame if these didn't get passed because we didn't make our voices heard.

[Guest tadams]

As far as the support group......Guess TGO is a pretty good one...lol

Sounds right on.