Well It Happened Again. Sniper at the Highland Park IL. 4th of July Parade.

[FUJIMO]

7 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

For the record, I don't like Daniel either and frankly wish he'd just move on. However, AFAIK he hasn't committed a ban worthy offence. He just pisses people off.  OTOH, preaching to the choir gets old and boring. Its good to have an opposing viewpoint now and then. 

What does bother me is that when a thread goes completely off topic because people can't seem to get along with each other,  Surly all of you have had to deal with someone you just infuriates the Hell outta ya, but there's nothing you can do about it. Think of Daniel like that and move on. 

Now can we please get back to the subject at hand? 

 

 

Ok, I'll attempt it. Adding to what you posted further up, they just reported on the local news about rifle #2 and raised the question about another shooter/accomplice or possibly him escaping the first scene to go shoot up another location.  Was that pure speculation on the part of the news or is there evidence pointing to that ?

[Grayfox54]

Speculation as far as I know. MSM just loves to stir the pot.  We'll just have to wait and see. 

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, GlockSpock said:

Statement in bold could be applied to swimming pools, vehicles, hammers, kitchen knives, etc.

Less kids would drown if we didn't have swimming pools.

Less families would die if we didn't have vehicles.

Less boyfriends would bash the brains of their girlfriends if they didn't have hammers laying around unlocked.

Less girlfriends would stab their cheating boyfriends if kitchen knives were all made out of plastic.

And yet for any of those things we could have experts in the field discuss real means to lower those things.  Like seat belts, speed limits, dui laws, etc.

[Daniel]

51 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Turns out that living is dangerous business. Every time we try to fix that, we end up with more government bureaucrats and government programs that only cause more unintended problems. Who gets to pay for this? You and me. I’ve been told that insanity defined is doing the same thing over and over again  while expecting a different result.

This line of thinking is what comes to mind when I hear people talking about more police, more SROs, more armed guards in public places.  Who is employing these people?  Who is training them?  What is their career progression?  etc.  Seems like adding to the government by bringing in a group who have one purpose, stand around with a gun on their hip.  Would they be LEO?  Do they need POST certificates?  Lots of issues with just throwing armed people at the problem.

[Daniel]

3 hours ago, Moped said:

I’ll be honest with you Daniel, being one of the more moderate people on this forum (one who typically sides with Erik88, Linksys, ChuckTshoes, BTR and is not a Trump follower), you come across as a troll to me. And you have been coming across like that for years.

How you’ve managed to keep a membership here, is beyond me. The only time you ever show up is either during an election period or after another tragic shooting. And then simply to antagonize. I don’t think I’ve once seen you talk about any firearm or firearms related subject other than gun control in the decade or so I’ve been here. And again honestly, that makes me wonder if you even own firearms. A political hack and troll is actually what you come across as.  And quite honestly, if you were to leave for another gun site on the internet, I doubt anyone would miss you. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.
 

 

Well, Ive been a member here since Jan 2008*.  I attended a couple of HCP court meetings with David once upon a time.  I have been to several (more than I can count on two hands) meet and shoots we used to do alot.  I've bought and sold guns here. My line of thinking on the availability of casualty producing weapons has changed.  Probably when the arm braces first showed up.  Las Vegas certainly got me thinking.  Of course New Town didnt help either.
 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Daniel
looked up join date.

[Daniel]

46 minutes ago, Grunt67 said:

Good accurate post. Personally, I've never fired upon another person, with the exception of Vietnam. I will never go along with changing parts of the US Constitution just because someone disagrees with it.

My vote would be an involuntary exit from TGO.

JMHO

We have changed the constitution several times.

https://jeffersonpapers.princeton.edu/selected-documents/thomas-jefferson-james-madison

 

Quote

Thomas Jefferson on Politics & Government16. Amending the ConstitutionNo work of man is perfect. It is inevitable that, in the course of time, the imperfections of a written Constitution will become apparent. Moreover, the passage of time will bring changes in society which a Constitution must accommodate if it is to remain suitable for the nation. It was imperative, therefore, that a practicable means of amending the Constitution be provided.

 

[Daniel]

28 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

So you are in the "We gotta do something!" group but have no idea as to what. That sounds like a typical leftest.

I believe that this entire mess started with the LIBERAL Supreme Court saying that you can't involuntary commit someone. Now they are on the streets killing people by any means they can find. Let's start there: What would YOU do to address this problem.

From this I am guessing you and I were in agreement when it was previously discussed that closing asylums a few decades back was not a good choice.

I would look to finding a way to move back to that model.  Obliviously we would need to ensure funding was there for treatment and protection of both staff and patients.

[Daniel]

30 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

For the record, I don't like Daniel either and frankly wish he'd just move on. However, AFAIK he hasn't committed a ban worthy offence. He just pisses people off.  OTOH, preaching to the choir gets old and boring. Its good to have an opposing viewpoint now and then. 

But why is it that I am so disliked?  Of course I can have a bad day or be irritated with a topic but is that all it is?  Or do people just not like when someone disagrees?  

[Daniel]

26 minutes ago, ArmyBrat61 said:

All politics aside, when will the masses understand that it is the person behind the object that is doing the harm? no one called for a nationwide ban on SUVs after that nutjob plowed through a Christmas parade. As somebody so correctly posted, swimming pools, baseball bats, kitchen knives and hammers are used to kill. It is the person, the intent, the evil inside that person that turns ANYTHING into a deadly object. You cannot legislate a person's intent only their actions. Firearms are tools, period. For good or for evil they are tools. Anyone's intent to remove my legally obtained tools from my possession will not be welcomed lightly, no matter how many people "might,may,could,possibly" be potentially harmed.

People didnt talk about banning SUVs no.  They have discussed barriers to keep vehicles from being able to be driven down routes though correct? We had rules in place that stopped the research into how to stop firearms deaths.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5993413/
 

Quote

 

For more than 20 years, Congress has deterred federal funding for gun violence research by including a provision known as the Dickey Amendment in annual appropriations legislation. The provision prohibits the use of federal funds to advocate or promote gun control.

The Dickey Amendment arose in response to efforts made in the early 1990s to begin treating gun violence as a public health issue. In 1992, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) converted its violence prevention division into a center that would lead federal efforts to reduce deaths and injuries resulting from violence. Soon, studies funded by the center began to draw attention to the gun issue. In particular, a 1993 study by Arthur Kellermann and his colleagues revealed an increased risk of homicide associated with presence of a firearm in a home.1 The Kellermann study and other similar investigations struck a nerve and began to receive widespread attention in newspapers and other media.

The National Rifle Association (NRA) accused the CDC of being biased against guns and began lobbying for the elimination of the injury prevention center. Although the center survived, the NRA persuaded its allies in Congress to take action. Led by Representative Jay Dickey of Arkansas, they added a provision to a 1996 spending bill declaring that “[n]one of the funds made available in this title may be used, in whole or in part, to advocate or promote gun control.”2 Congress also stipulated that $2.6 million of the CDC’s budget, which was the amount spent on firearm injury research during the previous year, would be specifically earmarked for research on traumatic brain injuries.

 

 

 

[eRay]

I just did a quick google search for how many people in the USA died in mass shootings. It appears that out of 350,000,000 people 1,051 have died in mass shooting incidents from 1982 to July 4, 2022. While any death is one too many, I would probably consider 1,051 out of 350,000,000 over a period of 40 years in order to preserve our liberty a reasonable trade off. We have fought a lot of wars for a lot less and lost many more lives. The danger from mass shootings is way overblown. 

[Daniel]

3 minutes ago, Eray said:

I just did a quick google search for how many people in the USA died in mass shootings. It appears that out of 350,000,000 people 1,051 have died in mass shooting incidents from 1982 to July 4, 2022. While any death is one too many, I would probably consider 1,051 out of 350,000,000 over a period of 40 years in order to preserve our liberty a reasonable trade off. We have fought a lot of wars for a lot less and lost many more lives. The danger from mass shootings is way overblown. 

Can you post your source?


This states "Since 2009, there have been 278 mass shootings in the United States, resulting in 1569 people shot and killed and 1000 people shot and wounded."
https://everytownresearch.org/maps/mass-shootings-in-america/


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States#Deadliest_mass_shootings_since_1949
 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Daniel

[eRay]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

Can you post your source?


This states "Since 2009, there have been 278 mass shootings in the United States, resulting in 1569 people shot and killed and 1000 people shot and wounded."
https://everytownresearch.org/maps/mass-shootings-in-america/

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/811504/mass-shooting-victims-in-the-united-states-by-fatalities-and-injuries/

[Daniel]

4 minutes ago, Eray said:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/811504/mass-shooting-victims-in-the-united-states-by-fatalities-and-injuries/

Pretty wide variance we have there.

[Erik88]

9 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Well, Ive been a member here since 2009.  I attended a couple of HCP court meetings with David once upon a time.  I have been to several (more than I can count on two hands) meet and shoots we used to do alot.  I've bought and sold guns here. My line of thinking on the availability of casualty producing weapons has changed.  Probably when the arm braces first showed up.  Las Vegas certainly got me thinking.  Of course New Town didnt help either.
 

I think it's fine to change your mind over time on issues. Sometimes I will start to question my stance after a horrific shooting. That train of thought usually stops every time I sit down and really think about the proposed gun control laws that are presented. I honestly don't think any of them will be meaningful at all. Nearly all are just attempts to make us feel safer which I hate. The other issue is that a lot of people calling for gun control are completely uneducated on firearms. They don't understand that an assault weapon ban is really a ban on all semi auto rifles. Some people on Reddit and Twitter call for an all out ban on the 2nd amendment which isn't helpful at all. 

On the other hand, I'm extremely concerned about the rate these mass shootings are happening and that our government is simply incapable of doing anything to stop it. As a country, we're so divided we can't even discuss the issue in any meaningful way. No one, and I mean no one, wants to talk about how much crime occurs because of gang violence. Few want to admit just how much new gun laws would disproportionately impact minorities either. They aren't coming to the white suburbs to enforce new gun laws. I can promise you that. 

So day after day these shootings continue to happen and nothing changes. Republicans are extremely hypocritical because they will blame it on mental health and then refuse to pay for treatment. 

I want people to be safe when they go to movie theaters, parades and schools. I personally don't feel safe at these places.  We have a horrible ####ed up culture that seems to get worse every day. Guns are the easiest thing to blame because we don't know what else to do. I really believe all of us share some of the blame for this, not as gun owners, but as Americans. We are consumed with work, stressed out, and are so divided we're not always decent to one another. Until some sort of top down culture shift happens this will only get worse. 

 

[gregintenn]

19 minutes ago, Daniel said:

But why is it that I am so disliked?  Of course I can have a bad day or be irritated with a topic but is that all it is?  Or do people just not like when someone disagrees?  

I actually do like you, and happen to believe you are an intelligent person. To be blunt, I am concerned about you. Since I’ve been a member, you have morphed from a sincere contributing member into a troll. I’m not sure if someone hacked your account, or if you are suffering from some mental instability. I would really like to see the old Daniel back.

[Chucktshoes]

9 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Pretty wide variance we have there.

I don’t know what, if any, biases statista hold. Everytown on the other hand is a Bloomberg funded organization created for the sole purpose of enacting gun control so its biases are a known quantity. 
 

One is a data set of unknown quality. The other is a data set that is extremely suspect in its veracity due to the strong bias of its source. 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Chucktshoes

[Erik88]

19 minutes ago, Daniel said:

But why is it that I am so disliked?  Of course I can have a bad day or be irritated with a topic but is that all it is?  Or do people just not like when someone disagrees?  

I enjoyed having you around during the election because this place was a circle jerk and you were one of the few people to have a different opinion. Lately it seems like you've gotten frustrated and all your posts have shifted towards being snarky. I have certainly been guilty of this too but I've tried to get better about it. But yes, some people here hate hearing a different opinion and aren't going to like you or I no matter how politely we offer a different opinion. 

My advice would be the same as the others. Soften the way at which you debate. It's nice having a different view point here. Especially someone in the military such as yourself. 

[Grayfox54]

So this is the argue with Daniel thread now? 

[Chucktshoes]

2 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

So this is the argue with Daniel thread now? 

I’ll take the blame on this one. My bad.
 

That said we’ve been due for a hard pivot thread derailment. It’s been a while since the last one. 

[Moped]

9 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

I’ll take the blame on this one. My bad.
 

That said we’ve been due for a hard pivot thread derailment. It’s been a while since the last one. 

It's not your fault. I've felt this way for some time.  Today I just reached my boiling point. He may have once upon a time, been a contributing member here, on other things, but it seems over the last several years, all I've seen him do is come on here and run amok on gun control or post things that are derogatory or not pertinent to the issue at hand.  I've never once felt the need to IGNORE a soul here, but today I reached my limit and have done so.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Moped

[TGO David]

4 hours ago, Links2k said:

I simply posted the pictures for those who always see the antifa boogeyman to show that there were other pictures out there showing the murderer as a fanboy of TFG. Again, his politics don’t matter, just give him a fair trial and let the chips fall where they may.  

I think you might have been suffering from confirmation bias when you saw those photos and interpreted them to mean that he's a Trump supporter.

Dressed like Waldo from Where's Waldo and standing at a Trump Rally?  That looks like a socialist Antifa soy-boy peacocking for his buddies on social media.

Draped with a Trump flag, using it as a cape, acting like a moron?  Possibly a Trump supporter  but more likely just another form of clowning for his circle.

 

[AuEagle]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

But why is it that I am so disliked?  

If you can't figure that out, you never will.

This being a gun forum, I have no use for anyone who supports & votes for someone who says they're going to take away my, my families, my friends & countless Americans Constitutional Rights away .

JMHO.

 

[Erik88]

10 minutes ago, TGO David said:

I think you might have been suffering from confirmation bias when you saw those photos and interpreted them to mean that he's a Trump supporter.

Dressed like Waldo from Where's Waldo and standing at a Trump Rally?  That looks like a socialist Antifa soy-boy peacocking for his buddies on social media.

Draped with a Trump flag, using it as a cape, acting like a moron?  Possibly a Trump supporter  but more likely just another form of clowning for his circle.

 

I actually thought today it's possible that both are true. He could have been some sort of far left loser at one point before being pro Trump. Looking at him he looks like a a confused and pathetic individual that doesn't stand for anything and just wants to get a reaction from anyone willing to give it.

I think your initial claim of mental health is accurate because I just read he attempted suicide in 2019 and police were informed at that time. Another time he threatened people with his knife collection apparently. 

 

[DJTC45]

As Barney Fife would say "he's a nut". It's sad in this day in time that this happens on a regular basis, I blame both the parents for not getting him help before he planned this out, and I also blame the "social media" face book, tic-tock and a few others were these people seem to get sucked in by a bunch of bull #### that gets posted and some of the idiots that they follow. It just drives a bigger wedge for the legal, responsible people who own firearms. I just don't understand what drives these individuals to do what they do.

[Daniel]

37 minutes ago, AuEagle said:

If you can't figure that out, you never will.

This being a gun forum, I have no use for anyone who supports & votes for someone who says they're going to take away my, my families, my friends & countless Americans Constitutional Rights away .

JMHO.

 

Im asking for individual responses. Thanks for yours.