Well It Happened Again. Sniper at the Highland Park IL. 4th of July Parade.

[Daniel]

12 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

So if you don’t have any actual interest in firearms, why are you slumming it around here amongst us?

Im a TN gun owner?

[Chucktshoes]

2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Im a TN gun owner?

Who seems to use your ownership of guns in the same way that folks like Tim Kennedy use their “I am a veteran“ card to advocate for gun control or the way that some people will use the “I have a black friend” card as a shield. 
 

While you may own guns, you seem to come here solely to advocate against them and shove general politics into anything you can.
 

Considering this is a forum dedicated to talking about firearms and expanding firearms rights, I will ask again. Why are you here?

[Links2k]

4 hours ago, TGO David said:

Everything about him screams mentally ill. 

But I'll play along... no one has ever seen an ANTIFA activist at a Trump rally before.  Or clowning with a Trump flag before.  The case is solved.  Good work, gang!

 

 

He could be mentally ill or he could be just f’n evil. There was a lot of premeditation in his actions. He should be held accountable. I don’t care what side of the political fence he claims. He has no soul.
 

I simply posted the pictures for those who always see the antifa boogeyman to show that there were other pictures out there showing the murderer as a fanboy of TFG. Again, his politics don’t matter, just give him a fair trial and let the chips fall where they may.  

 

 

[Daniel]

28 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Considering this is a forum dedicated to talking about firearms and expanding firearms rights, I will ask again. Why are you here?

Talking about firearms includes talking about firearm ownership.  

I am here to try and understand the lengths people will go to convince themselves that THEY aren't hurting their fellow Americans.

To try and influence people to consider others. To realize that not everything written 250 years ago is infallible.

One of the first mods here was a democrat.  You all chased him off.  I dont intend to leave voluntarily.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Daniel

[Hozzie]

So let’s change the discussion.   
 

You give us 3 things to fix this that do not infringe in the rights of others. 
 

And for the record, I have never physically hurt any person.  I don’t look kindly on the implication that I am somehow responsible for any of these shootings.  Exactly HOW am I hurting others by owning firearms?

Edited July 5, 2022 by Hozzie

[Daniel]

12 minutes ago, Hozzie said:

So let’s change the discussion.   
 

You give us 3 things to fix this that do not infringe in the rights of others. 
 

And for the record, I have never physically hurt any person.  I don’t look kindly on the implication that I am somehow responsible for any of these shootings.  Exactly HOW am I hurting others by owning firearms?

You arent hurting anyone by owning firearms. 

We are hurting others by supporting and campaigning for decreased control of firearms.  

There are people here who want all restrictions on the ownership of all firearms and related products removed.

I am obviously a gun owner.  I have not given my firearms away. I have no plans to give my firearms away.

I do not advocate for less regulation of the firearm industry.

It would take me awhile to give you three things to "fix this" as you have to look at secondary, tertiary, etc effects and that is not my realm. 

I AM open to looking for some things and enacting them if we (as a country) find some.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Daniel

[eRay]

54 minutes ago, Links2k said:

He could be mentally ill or he could be just f’n evil. There was a lot of premeditation in his actions. He should be held accountable. I don’t care what side of the political fence he claims. He has no soul.
 

I simply posted the pictures for those who always see the antifa boogeyman to show that there were other pictures out there showing the murderer as a fanboy of TFG. Again, his politics don’t matter, just give him a fair trial and let the chips fall where they may.  

 

 

I tend to agree with this. Out of 350,000,000 people in this country odds are you are going to have a few that are just purely evil. With this many people and a certain percentage of them just plain evil, it is surprising that we have as few mass killings as we do. Actually we don't have that many. The media just blows up everyone that we do have.

[GlockSpock]

31 minutes ago, Daniel said:

You arent hurting anyone by owning firearms. 

We are hurting others by supporting and campaigning for decreased control of firearms.  

There are people here who want all restrictions on the ownership of all firearms and related products removed.

I am obviously a gun owner.  I have not given my firearms away. I have no plans to give my firearms away.

I do not advocate for less regulation of the firearm industry.

It would take me awhile to give you three things to "fix this" as you have to look at secondary, tertiary, etc effects and that is not my realm. 

I AM open to looking for some things and enacting them if we (as a country) find some.

Statement in bold could be applied to swimming pools, vehicles, hammers, kitchen knives, etc.

Less kids would drown if we didn't have swimming pools.

Less families would die if we didn't have vehicles.

Less boyfriends would bash the brains of their girlfriends if they didn't have hammers laying around unlocked.

Less girlfriends would stab their cheating boyfriends if kitchen knives were all made out of plastic.

[Chucktshoes]

25 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Talking about firearms includes talking about firearm ownership.  

I am here to try and understand the lengths people will go to convince themselves that THEY aren't hurting their fellow Americans.

To try and influence people to consider others. To realize that not everything written 250 years ago is infallible.

One of the first mods here was a democrat.  You all chased him off.  I dont intend to leave voluntarily.

I asked a direct question in hopes of getting a clear and direct answer for once. Thank you for providing that. 

While I absolutely don’t agree with your views (at least as I understand them) I can see the merit in your aims. I will suggest altering your technique. If it seems as if I have changed from being initially supportive of your presence upon your return to expressing disdain there is a reason for that.

Your posting style as of late has been more indicative of someone interested in trolling as opposed to legitimate discussion and exchange of ideas. If you’re actually looking to engage with folks here in an honest manner, then do so in a direct and honest manner instead of throwing shade and #### posting.

Diversity in thought and even contrarian viewpoints are valuable to any community. The problem is when those views are expressed in a manner designed to elicit anger and sow discord. It is the reason that we eliminated the general politics sub forum. It did not bring anything positive or contribute to the overall health of the community. Even in a place that is mostly leaning in a similar direction, it just ended in needless fights. So stow the general/world politics posts. They’re not welcome. 
 

Getting back to the main point, how about more posts like your last? That’s what I was hoping to see from you when you returned with an obviously contrarian worldview. If you want to be an actual part of of this community, I know I personally want you to be, heterodox views and all. If you’re just going to go back to stirring up mess with no purpose, you won’t have to leave voluntarily. 

[GlockSpock]

I suppose we could easily fix all of the above, but I'm just brainstorming.

All privately owned swimming facilities (including pools and lakes) must have a trained life guard on staff 24/7 or must otherwise be rendered unusable (filling with concrete is the favored solution).

Vehicles may now only house 49% or less of any given immediate family. Of course there is inherent danger in driving/riding in an automobile, but this will limit the total number of casualties to less than half of any given family at any given time.

All construction tools may only be used in pre-approved safety construction zones under supervision. Consumers of such tools will be searched upon exit of construction zones to prevent removal of said tools from safety construction zones.

All kitchen hardware must either be made of plastic and also be shown via testing to break under any force considered outside the normal operating force for typical kitchen use. This includes forms and sporks as well.

[gregintenn]

14 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

I suppose we could easily fix all of the above, but I'm just brainstorming.

All privately owned swimming facilities (including pools and lakes) must have a trained life guard on staff 24/7 or must otherwise be rendered unusable (filling with concrete is the favored solution).

Vehicles may now only house 49% or less of any given immediate family. Of course there is inherent danger in driving/riding in an automobile, but this will limit the total number of casualties to less than half of any given family at any given time.

All construction tools may only be used in pre-approved safety construction zones under supervision. Consumers of such tools will be searched upon exit of construction zones to prevent removal of said tools from safety construction zones.

All kitchen hardware must either be made of plastic and also be shown via testing to break under any force considered outside the normal operating force for typical kitchen use. This includes forms and sporks as well.

Turns out that living is dangerous business. Every time we try to fix that, we end up with more government bureaucrats and government programs that only cause more unintended problems. Who gets to pay for this? You and me. I’ve been told that insanity defined is doing the same thing over and over again  while expecting a different result.

Edited July 5, 2022 by gregintenn

[Moped]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

Talking about firearms includes talking about firearm ownership.  

I am here to try and understand the lengths people will go to convince themselves that THEY aren't hurting their fellow Americans.

To try and influence people to consider others. To realize that not everything written 250 years ago is infallible.

One of the first mods here was a democrat.  You all chased him off.  I dont intend to leave voluntarily.

I’ll be honest with you Daniel, being one of the more moderate people on this forum (one who typically sides with Erik88, Linksys, ChuckTshoes, BTR and is not a Trump follower), you come across as a troll to me. And you have been coming across like that for years.

How you’ve managed to keep a membership here, is beyond me. The only time you ever show up is either during an election period or after another tragic shooting. And then simply to antagonize. I don’t think I’ve once seen you talk about any firearm or firearms related subject other than gun control in the decade or so I’ve been here. And again honestly, that makes me wonder if you even own firearms. A political hack and troll is actually what you come across as.  And quite honestly, if you were to leave for another gun site on the internet, I doubt anyone would miss you. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.
 

 

[FUJIMO]

4 minutes ago, Moped said:

I’ll be honest with you Daniel, being one of the more moderate people on this forum (one who typically sides with Erik88, Linksys, ChuckTshoes, BTR and is not a Trump follower), you come across as a troll to me. And you have been coming across like that for years.

How you’ve managed to keep a membership here, is beyond me. The only time you ever show up is either during an election period or after another tragic shooting. And then simply to antagonize. I don’t think I’ve once seen you talk about any firearm or firearms related subject other than gun control in the decade or so I’ve been here. And again honestly, that makes me wonder if you even own firearms. A political hack and troll is actually what you come across as.  And quite honestly, if you were to leave for another gun site on the internet, I doubt anyone would miss you. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.
 

 

[Grunt67]

4 minutes ago, Moped said:

I’ll be honest with you Daniel, being one of the more moderate people on this forum (one who typically sides with Erik88, Linksys, ChuckTshoes, BTR and is not a Trump follower), you come across as a troll to me. And you have been coming across like that for years.

How you’ve managed to keep a membership here, is beyond me. The only time you ever show up is either during an election period or after another tragic shooting. And then simply to antagonize. I don’t think I’ve once seen you talk about any firearm or firearms related subject other than gun control in the decade or so I’ve been here. And again honestly, that makes me wonder if you even own firearms. A political hack and troll is actually what you come across as.  And quite honestly, if you were to leave for another gun site on the internet, I doubt anyone would miss you. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.
 

 

Good accurate post. Personally, I've never fired upon another person, with the exception of Vietnam. I will never go along with changing parts of the US Constitution just because someone disagrees with it.

My vote would be an involuntary exit from TGO.

JMHO

[Grayfox54]

Getting back to the original subject.....

I just saw reports that the rifle was purchased legally.

The shooter was dressed in women's clothing. Most likely to hide his many tattoos. He climbed down off the roof and blended into the crowd to make his escape. He walked to his Mother's house and took her car. PD put out info on shooter and vehicle. A good citizen saw and reported the car. PD made a traffic stop and shooter was taken into custody peacefully. A second rifle was found in the car. 

He may be crazy or just plain evil. But the shooter ain't stupid. 

[GlockSpock]

To make it clear, we aren't voting on whether to exile Daniel from the island.

I do think his posts could be more thoughtful and less inflammatory, but I agree with @Chucktshoes regarding thought diversity and opposing viewpoints. I don't want to see TGO become an echo chamber, and if we run off anyone with an opposing viewpoint that's exactly what we will become.

[Sleep profit]

No exile      what about shunning .?

[Grunt67]

12 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

To make it clear, we aren't voting on whether to exile Daniel from the island.

I do think his posts could be more thoughtful and less inflammatory, but I agree with @Chucktshoes regarding thought diversity and opposing viewpoints. I don't want to see TGO become an echo chamber, and if we run off anyone with an opposing viewpoint that's exactly what we will become.

Vote was the wrong word. As I said, it is my opinion.

[Chucktshoes]

4 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

To make it clear, we aren't voting on whether to exile Daniel from the island.

I do think his posts could be more thoughtful and less inflammatory, but I agree with @Chucktshoes regarding thought diversity and opposing viewpoints. I don't want to see TGO become an echo chamber, and if we run off anyone with an opposing viewpoint that's exactly what we will become.

No, no public voting of that. Not how we do things around here.

We have been an echo chamber for long stretches of time. It’s why I am so happy when diverse worldviews arrive and help us not to be that. 

[E4 No More]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

You arent hurting anyone by owning firearms. 

We are hurting others by supporting and campaigning for decreased control of firearms.  

There are people here who want all restrictions on the ownership of all firearms and related products removed.

I am obviously a gun owner.  I have not given my firearms away. I have no plans to give my firearms away.

I do not advocate for less regulation of the firearm industry.

It would take me awhile to give you three things to "fix this" as you have to look at secondary, tertiary, etc effects and that is not my realm. 

I AM open to looking for some things and enacting them if we (as a country) find some.

So you are in the "We gotta do something!" group but have no idea as to what. That sounds like a typical leftest.

I believe that this entire mess started with the LIBERAL Supreme Court saying that you can't involuntary commit someone. Now they are on the streets killing people by any means they can find. Let's start there: What would YOU do to address this problem.

[Chucktshoes]

4 minutes ago, Sleep profit said:

No exile      what about shunning .?

You do have an ignore button. I’m a proponent of making use of it if one finds another person’s posts a problem. 
 

Sadly, I gave that up when I became a mod.

[Grayfox54]

For the record, I don't like Daniel either and frankly wish he'd just move on. However, AFAIK he hasn't committed a ban worthy offence. He just pisses people off.  OTOH, preaching to the choir gets old and boring. Its good to have an opposing viewpoint now and then. 

What does bother me is that when a thread goes completely off topic because people can't seem to get along with each other,  Surly all of you have had to deal with someone you just infuriates the Hell outta ya, but there's nothing you can do about it. Think of Daniel like that and move on. 

Now can we please get back to the subject at hand? 

 

 

[ArmyBrat61]

All politics aside, when will the masses understand that it is the person behind the object that is doing the harm? no one called for a nationwide ban on SUVs after that nutjob plowed through a Christmas parade. As somebody so correctly posted, swimming pools, baseball bats, kitchen knives and hammers are used to kill. It is the person, the intent, the evil inside that person that turns ANYTHING into a deadly object. You cannot legislate a person's intent only their actions. Firearms are tools, period. For good or for evil they are tools. Anyone's intent to remove my legally obtained tools from my possession will not be welcomed lightly, no matter how many people "might,may,could,possibly" be potentially harmed.

[Sleep profit]

11 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

You do have an ignore button. I’m a proponent of making use of it if one finds another person’s posts a problem. 
 

Sadly, I gave that up when I became a mod.

Thanks I think that would be the best option as I don’t agree with anything he writes 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Sleep profit

[E4 No More]

6 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

You do have an ignore button. I’m a proponent of making use of it if one finds another person’s posts a problem. 
 

Sadly, I gave that up when I became a mod.

No good deed goes unpunished, Chuckshoes.