Uvalde incompetence

[Daniel]

4 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

It is. 
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CeCIi_hPsn3/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

You wont check reddit but instagram is kosher? Agree to disagree lol.

[Garufa]

3 minutes ago, Grunt67 said:

Certainly. That's my duty. I took it seriously.

I served in combat in 'Nam. Nothing new.

That’s good to know and I salute your dedication.  The thing is, local LEO’s that could be your grandchildren are being heavily scrutinized and increasingly thrown under the bus for what happened in Uvalde.

People are looking to law enforcement to protect the schools and most importantly the children within.  

How can that be achieved when LE has no duty or responsibility to protect as has been decreed by the Supremes.?  Or there there is just too much plain lack of common sense, bureaucracy, and perhaps cowardice to get anything done when it needs to be done?

[deerslayer]

52 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Side question, why doesn't this happen in countries without Christianity as their "foundation."

Christianity in America is waning.  I’m probably not the most religious person on here, but there would probably be less of this lunacy if the opposite were true.  

[Grunt67]

34 minutes ago, Garufa said:

That’s good to know and I salute your dedication.  The thing is, local LEO’s that could be your grandchildren are being heavily scrutinized and increasingly thrown under the bus for what happened in Uvalde.

People are looking to law enforcement to protect the schools and most importantly the children within.  

How can that be achieved when LE has no duty or responsibility to protect as has been decreed by the Supremes.?  Or there there is just too much plain lack of common sense, bureaucracy, and perhaps cowardice to get anything done when it needs to be done?

Garufa, I can't begin to explain officers waiting outside while children are being killed. Also, can't understand the Supreme Court decision.

There's no shortage of explanations, but most make no sense, at least to me. Wonder how well they sleep at nite.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Grunt67
sp

[Erich]

Situations like this, it unlikely any account of events will be seen as satisfactory. Between the typical witch hunt designed to have someone to blame and those under fire doing CYA to not end up the scapegoat, the truth is months away if at all. 

You want unwashed answers, unfortunately you are not going to get them from the media.  This will have the usual after-the-fact woulda coulda shoulda that hindsight brings, lacking solutions acceptable to all. The only truths that can be known are that the shooter was a deranged POS, no one stopped him in time, people died that should not have.

Effective solutions in the short term all point to some surrender of freedoms, not talking just gun ownership, possibly giving up a level of privacy or submit to invasive policy. Question is, what are you willing to live with.

Edit: Folks will want to read in her things that weren’t and aren’t being said as a left aligned sentiment of anti-gun acts. Blathering on about magazine size  bans and related nonsense. I invite them to show a single post i’ve ever made that is aligned with this misinterpretation or in stopper of the left. 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Erich

[m16ty]

On 5/24/2022 at 6:21 PM, A.J. Holst said:

He is, totally...spending eternity in hell.

As a Christian, it is hard for me to see how God can use this horrific tragedy for good.

I do know adding my prayers to those of the faithful are heard and will make a difference.

As a Christian, I don't think God sees any good in this. We (country and world as a whole) did this. God doesn't cause tragedies like this, but he is willing to let us reap the rewards of our sinful ways. This country is broken, and I would submit it is a direct result of turning away from God and family. 

I'm not here to force my beliefs on everybody, but that's the way I see it.

[m16ty]

4 hours ago, Links2k said:

I’m currently watching news reports that say the same. I’m wondering how many here would have risked being shot by the cops to attempt to save just one child. I couldn’t face living if I didn’t at least try. 

I would, especially if my child was in there. When the officers wouldn't go in (if this is true) and wouldn't let me in, they just became part of the threat. I have no elusion that I could walk in a neutralize the bad guy, I would submit that the probability would be high that I could very well end up as another casualty, but what other choice would you have?

I just can't hardly stand the thought of kids lying there wounded and bleeding out while everybody just stood by for an hour.

[A.J. Holst]

6 hours ago, m16ty said:

As a Christian, I don't think God sees any good in this. We (country and world as a whole) did this. God doesn't cause tragedies like this, but he is willing to let us reap the rewards of our sinful ways. This country is broken, and I would submit it is a direct result of turning away from God and family. 

I'm not here to force my beliefs on everybody, but that's the way I see it.

Agreed, He does not see good, but my Bible says he uses all things for good and his glory...I just haven't seen it yet.

Agreed, we are morally and spiritually broken as a nation as God is further excluded from daily living.

I too am confused about LE response, over the last 8 years, I've attended over 20 active shooter seminars.

Every instructor has stated current protocol is to engage and stop, not wait and talk. 

[gregintenn]

10 hours ago, Daniel said:

Well, I know how I reacted.  It was to return fire.


Side question, why doesn't this happen in countries without Christianity as their "foundation."

Trolling level: EXPERT!!!

[deerslayer]

9 hours ago, Erich said:

Effective solutions in the short term all point to some surrender of freedoms, not talking just gun ownership, possibly giving up a level of privacy or submit to invasive policy. Question is, what are you willing to live with.

How would any of these "solutions" have prevented this massacre?  Are we to believe that, if the shooter had only had 10 round magazines, a bunch of third graders would have bum rushed him in the second or two his gun was empty/partially empty while swapping magazines?  Go to a USPSA match and watch what a Master or Grand Master class shooter can do with an 8 or 10 round gun.  I don't believe a truly skilled shooter (fortunately) has engaged in a mass shooting yet.  These yahoos often seem to have bought their gun two weeks or a couple months before their rampage.  

Giving up more privacy?  More stringent background checks?  This shooter apparently legally obtained his gun because he had no criminal record, so the only "background check" that would have prevented his purchase may be a Chinese-style social credit system.  No thanks.  Red flag laws?  How would that have stopped this guy?  He apparently exhibited no mental illness issues, at least none that anybody noticed or reported.  

I'm interested in hearing meaningful suggestions or conversations on what can prevent these tragedies, but the Left's worn-out drivel about punishing people who did nothing wrong is stale and (I think) shows that they are not serious about addressing the issue.  

[TGO David]

A lot of folks aren't going to like this post and I think I am honestly past the point of caring.  Why?  Because the people who won't like it don't have any solutions either and their feelings on what I am about to say is why we are where we're at in the first place.

This country has forfeited its moral compass.  We have a sin problem that has been intentionally hidden behind the symptomatic mental health problem, which itself is one that not many want to talk about.  We have allowed leftists to take God out of our society.  People, young and old alike, have practically been forbidden to talk in publicly funded places about the God who heals hearts and minds, who tells us what is right and wrong, and with whom heavy human burdens can be traded for peace that transcends worldly hurts.

Kids brains are now saturated from Pre-Kindergarten, forward, with all manner of unnatural doctrines which warp their minds and injure their souls.  They are told that boys with XY chromosomes and penises can call themselves girls, and that girls with XX chromosomes and vaginas can call themselves boys, and that anyone who dares conflict those misconceptions is guilty of assaulting their self-identities.  Men are Women, Adults are Kids, Kids are Sexual Beings, Left is Right, Right is Left, Wrong is Right, Right is Wrong and God is a Myth.

 

These days, a messed-up kid with a list of grievances in his heart often doesn't have a father AND mother at home to confide in, because we've allowed leftist ideals to destroy the nuclear family.  And if the kid does have one or both at home, there is a chance that one or both are terrible human beings, themselves, and maybe the cause of some of the kid's pain.  Or, at best, apathetic to it because they are just adult-sized children too, living selfish self-centered, hedonistic lives and lacking any natural compassion for their child.

That kid typically hasn't been brought up to understand that there is a real and loving God who cares for him and to whom all of his hurts and pains and anger can be brought to have them sorted out and healed.

So that kid just festers with confusion, anger and rage, like an infection below the skin, just waiting to burst and release all of what has been trapped inside of him.  And then he makes the news, with a weapon of any sort, and a victim or list of victims upon whom he released his wrath.

 

We are reaping what our society has sown over the past five or more decades.   We asked for this.  And if we want to change it, we've got to get involved.  We have to save our kids by investing in our kids.  Not just our biological children, but our society's children.  There are a lot of kids out there who don't have mom or dad, or for whom mom and dad are a part of the problem.

This isn't a situation where we can write checks and make donations and other people do the work.  If you're reading this and you care about where our society is headed, you can personally get involved and you NEED to.  Kids from Pre-K up to early adulthood need your mentorship, your guidance and your heart.

 

Like I said, a lot of people won't like this post.  So be it.

 

[Darrell]

I read a Tucker Carlson piece this morning that made some sense. I don't always agree with Carlson, but in this case I do. He pointed out that when there's a plane crash the FAA goes to great lengths to find out what went wrong with the plane or pilot, and to try to come up with solutions that will prevent a recurrence. He suggested that perhaps school shootings should be analyzed in a similar manner.  

Right now we have a bunch of politicians who instantly try to take advantage of these kinds of events, note what O' Rourk  did right after the shootings. We have a bunch of pundits who offer their solutions, which are normally tied to political beliefs.  But there seems to be no attempt to find out WHY these people are doing what they do. Maybe TGO David is right, kids are being bombarded with all kinds of ideas that people like me grew up thinking were perverse. They watch movies in which people are mowed down willy nilly with no kind of emotional toll at all. Video games are filled with violence, rap music is filled with violence. The abnormal has become normalized, so perhaps we shouldn't be surprised at the results.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Darrell

[Hozzie]

As an atheist, I will take a bit of a different view, but will ultimately not be far off from what I think most "God" people on here are saying.

First, I don't believe that you have to be "religious" to understand right from wrong and to have a moral compass.   Morals is a broad subject and we aren't going to agree on everything, but it's pretty simple to know right from wrong in the context of killing people.

Why does this keep happening?  Because for the most part, no one is held accountable.  In the case of kids doing these things, we need to start holding parents accountable.  I don't just mean a slap on the wrist or financial.  I mean with extreme prejudice.   

If you want to coddle, cajole, and otherwise not take any responsibility for how your kids acts and the actions they take, then society should emphatically make an example of you.  At some point, even the dumbest people stop putting their hands on the hot stove.

[Erik88]

40 minutes ago, TGO David said:

Kids brains are now saturated from Pre-Kindergarten, forward, with all manner of unnatural doctrines which warp their minds and injure their souls.  They are told that boys with XY chromosomes and penises can call themselves girls, and that girls with XX chromosomes and vaginas can call themselves boys, and that anyone who dares conflict those misconceptions is guilty of assaulting their self-identities.  Men are Women, Adults are Kids, Kids are Sexual Beings, Left is Right, Right is Left, Wrong is Right, Right is Wrong and God is a Myth.

I agree with a lot of your post but I'm not seeing how this section is causing school shootings. Can you expand on how this is related to any of the shootings we've seen so far? I'm guessing this school system in rural Texas wasn't teaching kids about this topic but I could be wrong. 

The pictures of the cross dresser floating around are apparently not actually the shooter in this instance. 

 

[TGO David]

22 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I agree with a lot of your post but I'm not seeing how this section is causing school shootings. Can you expand on how this is related to any of the shootings we've seen so far? I'm guessing this school system in rural Texas wasn't teaching kids about this topic but I could be wrong. 

The pictures of the cross dresser floating around are apparently not actually the shooter in this instance. 

 

The unnatural gender doctrines is just an example of the ways that kids minds are being saturated with things that go against the natural order.  Frankly, we don't yet have a full diagnosis of what likely caused this particular kid to go off the deep end - and anything that they come up with now will be purely a forensic deduction or best-guess since he is dead and it is impossible to interview him in a clinical setting.

I chose that purely as an example of how society daily has the rug ripped out from its figurative feet, from a very early age, and put off balance with a litany of "issues" that don't make sense and cause internal personal turmoil and anguish.  These factors compound and cause mentally and emotionally crippling personal crises that children, lacking mature and fully formed brain structures, cannot address in any sort of constructive manner.  Let alone the fact that concepts like gender fluidity are fundamentally insane, as given some evidence by the extremely high rate of suicides among transgendered individuals.

Anyway, all of this is to say that a single raindrop doesn't cause a flood but all of them together can.  And do.

 

[Erich]

48 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

How would any of these "solutions" have prevented this massacre?  Are we to believe that, if the shooter had only had 10 round magazines. Red flag laws?  How would that have stopped this guy? 

I'm interested in hearing meaningful suggestions or conversations on what can prevent these tragedies, but the Left's worn-out drivel about punishing people who did nothing wrong is stale and (I think) shows that they are not serious about addressing the issue.  

Whoa whoa whoa. You definitely read in laundry list of anti 2A fears that I do not and never will support.  I alluded to not being gun related, but didn’t emphasize that enough. Would have been good some thoughts versus jump to conclusions, but I get this is emotionally charged so folks can tend to do it.

For the analytical, clearly what’s been tried dress not work. One has to apply a bit of  root cause analysis and apply. It never has or will be the gun, knife, or cars fault for the ass wielding it. Its a person problem.

Second, you will never 100% contain crazy. Improving is the best you can hope for. 

Disclaimer: I hesitate to the out specific thoughts, my last question posed that drew a bit of false left ire initially was rhetorical and was meant to point out that things would have to be different to today and focus on the individuals, which is not hire or society works.

They would focus on drivers for those that commit the acts and, and their end goals.  Surface impressions show fundamental coping issues with a desire for validation and wanting to be noticed. David more eloquently covered much of this.

As I put this down, I’m thinking better of specifics. It’s an invitation to attack vs dialogue based on current reactions.

Suffice it to say, ‘normal’ is on a spectrum. It’s a subjective culturally defined construct. Societal stigma around it makes any suggestion of pursuing a path to identification and assistance across all stages of life in the current environment impossible. Mental fitness is not a one and done situation. Life and stresses change for everyone. 

For now I’ll just point back to my prior around removing incentives. Modification of media handling and socials so they don’t get what they perceive as recognition and platform to share their ‘pain’. 

 

 

 

[Grayfox54]

I'm a Christian, but readily admit that I'm not a very good one. However, I do see the removal and demonizing of religion in this country as a driving factor in our demise as a society. With the possible exception of radical Islam,  all religions, not just Christianity, strive to teach people moral values. How to be a good person and how you should treat you're fellow man. Its about believing in something greater than yourself and contributing to the betterment of society. 

On another forum, someone brought up respect. As a child of the 1950s, I grew up respecting my parents, respecting my elders, respecting authority and respecting my government. There were people to respect, look up to and try to be like. 

What do today's young people have to respect? Most barely know their parents. They're taught that older people are fools. And when it comes to authority and government,  well, even I have lost all respect for them. Young people today have very few people to look up to. They don't respect anyone and worse, they don't respect themselves. 

Its not that they don't know right from wrong, its that the line has become so blurred that they've lost hope and just don't care. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Grayfox54

[deerslayer]

1 hour ago, Erich said:

Whoa whoa whoa. You definitely read in laundry list of anti 2A fears that I do not and never will support.  I alluded to not being gun related, but didn’t emphasize that enough. Would have been good some thoughts versus jump to conclusions, but I get this is emotionally charged so folks can tend to do it.

For the analytical, clearly what’s been tried dress not work. One has to apply a bit of  root cause analysis and apply. It never has or will be the gun, knife, or cars fault for the ass wielding it. Its a person problem.

Second, you will never 100% contain crazy. Improving is the best you can hope for. 

Disclaimer: I hesitate to the out specific thoughts, my last question posed that drew a bit of false left ire initially was rhetorical and was meant to point out that things would have to be different to today and focus on the individuals, which is not hire or society works.

They would focus on drivers for those that commit the acts and, and their end goals.  Surface impressions show fundamental coping issues with a desire for validation and wanting to be noticed. David more eloquently covered much of this.

As I put this down, I’m thinking better of specifics. It’s an invitation to attack vs dialogue based on current reactions.

Suffice it to say, ‘normal’ is on a spectrum. It’s a subjective culturally defined construct. Societal stigma around it makes any suggestion of pursuing a path to identification and assistance across all stages of life in the current environment impossible. Mental fitness is not a one and done situation. Life and stresses change for everyone. 

For now I’ll just point back to my prior around removing incentives. Modification of media handling and socials so they don’t get what they perceive as recognition and platform to share their ‘pain’. 

 

 

 

Well you said  “not talking JUST gun ownership” so your wording left the impression that gun ownership was included.  Whatever the case, I assumed you were playing devil’s advocate and my comments were not necessarily directed at you.  I’ve read enough of your posts to know you’re definitely pro-2A.  

[Erich]

29 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Well you said  “not talking JUST gun ownership” so your wording left the impression that gun ownership was included.  Whatever the case, I assumed you were playing devil’s advocate and my comments were not necessarily directed at you.  I’ve read enough of your posts to know you’re definitely pro-2A.  

No doubt, ended up with less than ideal phrasing / word choice on my part when I left that behind from the original wording.  

Feels like omitting a NOT at inopportune times. 

Its was not really intended to be devils advocate in this case. The left’s reaction is simply not realistic or tenable to have any measure of support. 

But I do believe that folks, if they really feel this needs to change, have to realize that some radically different thinking is needed around individuals and things as a society we have issues with addressing. A cultural shift on perceptions for mental well being across a lifetime and the things that effect it. And can they make these changes. Mitigating fear based responses.

I don’t see that folks will be accepting of the need, or willing to give up behaviors they are to dysfunctionally tied to. 

I’m reading it in much of the comments, whether people see it as a moral compass, values, religion, etc. All these things define a society’s cultural base. Changing that requires some (perceived) radical perspective shifts.

And that is without the influence of whoever actually controls the socials, which is a huge conflicting factor in democratized society.  Its the socials that I believe make this an impossible task, as long their plague is allowed to exist.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Erich

[xtriggerman]

Antidepressants Are a Prescription for Mass Shootings – Citizens Commission on Human Rights, CCHR (cchrflorida.org)

[Daniel]

I wish I knew enough to gauge the facts on this.

[Garufa]

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

I wish I knew enough to gauge the facts on this.

You obviously have an opinion.  Let’s hear it.

[Omega]

19 minutes ago, Garufa said:

You obviously have an opinion.  Let’s hear it.

What, we doing politics again?  Ok then, FJB, enough said.

[peejman]

10 hours ago, Hozzie said:

As an atheist, I will take a bit of a different view, but will ultimately not be far off from what I think most "God" people on here are saying.

First, I don't believe that you have to be "religious" to understand right from wrong and to have a moral compass.   Morals is a broad subject and we aren't going to agree on everything, but it's pretty simple to know right from wrong in the context of killing people.

Why does this keep happening?  Because for the most part, no one is held accountable.  In the case of kids doing these things, we need to start holding parents accountable.  I don't just mean a slap on the wrist or financial.  I mean with extreme prejudice.   

If you want to coddle, cajole, and otherwise not take any responsibility for how your kids acts and the actions they take, then society should emphatically make an example of you.  At some point, even the dumbest people stop putting their hands on the hot stove.

I would say that God put that moral compass in your heart.  

I agree with you about holding parents more accountable, but not just parents. It takes a village and I bet there's a lot of villagers asking themselves some very hard questions. 

I hope all those officers turn in their badges. I understand that LEO's arent soldiers, but court rulings aside, no one in that community will trust them anymore. 

[TGO David]

3 hours ago, Daniel said:

I wish I knew enough to gauge the facts on this.

Well, they had one out of seven things going for them.