Senators reach a bipartisan deal on gun safety legislation

[gregintenn]

46 minutes ago, btq96r said:

But I also don't see anything that is a cause for concern.

The language of the Red Flag laws is vague, and as I understand it, only having grant money for states that want to set it up.  It's no more of a potential mess than it was before.  I'm actually okay with a few of the provisions in it (the mental health funding and boyfriend loophole being addressed), agnostic on others (18-21yr olds potentially having juvenile records reviewed, and the tighter FFL requirements that will grab private sellers clearly running a business), and not threatened by the rest.

This is a great vignette of the Washington "do something" legislative thinking.  It's kind of surprising Democrats went along with just this...they didn't even fight for universal background checks as to not derail things.  I would think trying to celebrate this as gun control opens them up to a primary challenge from an absolutist on gun control.  Republicans will get some mummers of betraying gun owners, but not enough to change anything other than the tightest primary.

It weren’t you, sir.

I agree that this doesn’t sound all that devastating, except for the pushing of red flag laws. I don’t think they will stand up to a court ruling, however.

[Links2k]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

It weren’t you, sir.

I agree that this doesn’t sound all that devastating, except for the pushing of red flag laws. I don’t think they will stand up to a court ruling, however.

So we agree

[Erik88]

We've now seen the most horrific mass shooting since 2012 and came out relatively unscathed as gun owners. It has become increasingly clear that the entire gun control debate is used and loved by both parties. The Democrats know they can't really do anything and probably don't want to because they know it will cost them. Someone mentioned they were probably relieved after the latest SCOTUS ruling. The Republicans use it for votes and create fear any chance they get. They actually helped the Democrats pass this bill because they know they have gun owners by the balls and nothing in the bill was bad enough to upset us. 

I have been a member here since 2010 and been through many election cycles where we were assured the next Democratic victory would lead to the end of the 2nd Amendment. I still remember people saying Obama was going to put us in FEMA camps.  

After the events in the last month it's going to be very difficult for me to believe that serious gun control is possible. The Supreme Court has made it clear where they stand. Republicans will need new fear mongering material for the next election. I'm sure both sides will come up with something to keep us fighting with each other. 

[btq96r]

3 hours ago, gregintenn said:

It weren’t you, sir.

I agree that this doesn’t sound all that devastating, except for the pushing of red flag laws. I don’t think they will stand up to a court ruling, however.

Well, you didn't have me in mind, but I had similar prognostications in another thread.  My crystal ball is cloudy.

The red flag laws are always going to be a worry spot.  They have good intent, especially if suicide is something we wish to have an open debate about...but you're right in thinking there is a lot of room for abuse.  The benefit of this package is there's no real definition of them at a federal level, just more grant money for the states to use.

[gregintenn]

26 minutes ago, btq96r said:

Well, you didn't have me in mind, but I had similar prognostications in another thread.  My crystal ball is cloudy.

The red flag laws are always going to be a worry spot.  They have good intent, especially if suicide is something we wish to have an open debate about...but you're right in thinking there is a lot of room for abuse.  The benefit of this package is there's no real definition of them at a federal level, just more grant money for the states to use.

The red flag law will be a favorite weapon of an ex wife or jilted lover. “I’ll show that SOB!!!!”

I also imagine the litmus test for a liberal judge for crazy is that you desire to own a “weapon of war”.

Others here have much more faith in .gov, and people in general than I do.

Edited June 28, 2022 by gregintenn

[deerslayer]

Well I’m glad the SC ruled the way it did and they have proven yet again that elections do, in fact, have consequences, but I don’t see how this decision eliminates many of the restrictions we already have in some places or prevents certain new ones.  Also, incentivizing red flag laws is a step in the wrong direction.  Call me silly, but I’m not ready to become complacent and declare that the fight is over.  

Edited June 29, 2022 by deerslayer

[Whisper]

The Supreme Court ruling is already changing restrictions.  The attorney generals of California and New Jersey have already issued formal opinions that their states' "good cause" provisions for carrying a concealed weapon are unconstitutional and cause may no longer be considered when reviewing concealed carry applications.   We're essentially certain to see lawsuits against states with less restrictive laws, including Tennessee.  You're right that the fight is not over, but the SC ruling is already providing positive results for the pro-freedom movement, and I expect it will for years to come.  The tyrants are going to be drowned in lawsuits, and I am thrilled.

Cheers,

Whisper

[deerslayer]

27 minutes ago, Whisper said:

The Supreme Court ruling is already changing restrictions.  The attorney generals of California and New Jersey have already issued formal opinions that their states' "good cause" provisions for carrying a concealed weapon are unconstitutional and cause may no longer be considered when reviewing concealed carry applications.   We're essentially certain to see lawsuits against states with less restrictive laws, including Tennessee.  You're right that the fight is not over, but the SC ruling is already providing positive results for the pro-freedom movement, and I expect it will for years to come.  The tyrants are going to be drowned in lawsuits, and I am thrilled.

Cheers,

Whisper

All that is true when talking about right to carry laws.  However, there are other areas of gun control - "assault weapons", magazine restrictions, suppressor ownership, semi-auto bans, punitive taxes on ammunition, etc, that this decision doesn't address.  

[Daniel]

On 6/28/2022 at 4:35 PM, gregintenn said:

an ex wife or jilted lover

I mean when they are killed, it's normally by the ex or lover so maybe they have something there.

[gregintenn]

9 hours ago, Daniel said:

I mean when they are killed, it's normally by the ex or lover so maybe they have something there.

If you can’t see a power like this being abused, I’ll say you aren’t being very honest. I’m quite certain you aren’t that naive.

[Whisper]

On 6/28/2022 at 7:52 PM, deerslayer said:

All that is true when talking about right to carry laws.  However, there are other areas of gun control - "assault weapons", magazine restrictions, suppressor ownership, semi-auto bans, punitive taxes on ammunition, etc, that this decision doesn't address.  

As for addressing other areas of gun control, take a look at today's ruling that vacates lower court decisions on assault weapons and magazine restrictions.  Very clearly, the decision is specifically addressing these areas.

Supreme Court Says Several Gun Cases Deserve a New Look | Hawaii News | US News

[deerslayer]

1 hour ago, Whisper said:

As for addressing other areas of gun control, take a look at today's ruling that vacates lower court decisions on assault weapons and magazine restrictions.  Very clearly, the decision is specifically addressing these areas.

Supreme Court Says Several Gun Cases Deserve a New Look | Hawaii News | US News

That’s excellent news and thank goodness the “that can”t happen here” types aren’t running the show.  There is clearly still work to be done.  

[Links2k]

8 hours ago, gregintenn said:

If you can’t see a power like this being abused, I’ll say you aren’t being very honest. I’m quite certain you aren’t that naive.

I can definitely see this power being abused. At the same time some people need to relax and enjoy the victory instead of picking it apart. There doesn’t need to be a crisis every day.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Links2k

[FUJIMO]

13 minutes ago, Links2k said:

 There doesn’t need to be a crisis every day.

[gregintenn]

Breaks my heart to see so many liberals on a gun forum of all places.

[Chucktshoes]

2 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Breaks my heart to see so many liberals on a gun forum of all places.

It doesn’t me. Firearms should be a non-partisan issue. What I dislike is seeing folks who used to believe in the 2A advocating for greater firearms restrictions. 
 

“Good for me, but not for thee” types really get under skin. 

[Erik88]

13 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Breaks my heart to see so many liberals on a gun forum of all places.

Greg, you are all over the place on this topic. I've seen you state many times that all politicians are liars and you dislike both parties. You've called out Republicans at times. You were probably one of the more outspoken members against police but seemed to ease up on that the past few years. You've sworn to me that you are not beholden to Republicans. Despite all that you call other members liberals more than anyone else. Anyone who has a different opinion. 

Some of us have been saying this since 2016 but I'll try it again. We are at the point that we despise both parties. I can't stress enough how much I hate our political system and both groups. I believe that both parties are doing irreversible damage to the country. A lot of Republicans claim this but don't really mean it. I mean it. Our system is broken and both sides are owned by corporate donors.

I'm going to continue to call out Republicans on a gun forum where most people are diehard conservatives. I think it's healthy to break up the echo chamber. I'll call out the Democrats too. If any of this makes me a liberal in your eye that's fine. Just know that I'm probably going to keep voting 3rd party because it's the only vote that doesn't make me nauseous. 

[Moped]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

Greg, you are all over the place on this topic. I've seen you state many times that all politicians are liars and you dislike both parties. You've called out Republicans at times. You were probably one of the more outspoken members against police but seemed to ease up on that the past few years. You've sworn to me that you are not beholden to Republicans. Despite all that you call other members liberals more than anyone else. Anyone who has a different opinion. 

Some of us have been saying this since 2016 but I'll try it again. We are at the point that we despise both parties. I can't stress enough how much I hate our political system and both groups. I believe that both parties are doing irreversible damage to the country. A lot of Republicans claim this but don't really mean it. I mean it. Our system is broken and both sides are owned by corporate donors.

I'm going to continue to call out Republicans on a gun forum where most people are diehard conservatives. I think it's healthy to break up the echo chamber. I'll call out the Democrats too. If any of this makes me a liberal in your eye that's fine. Just know that I'm probably going to keep voting 3rd party because it's the only vote that doesn't make me nauseous. 

This one of the big reasons I moved to voting for a third party. Quite honestly, I typically find the Republicans to be as disingenuous as the Democrats and just as shady. The Republicans, especially in this state, take gun owners and organizations for granted. Just like the Democrats take the African American vote for granted.

[Links2k]

2 hours ago, gregintenn said:

Breaks my heart to see so many liberals on a gun forum of all places.

What if i’m a person that despises both political parties, want other human beings to be treated fairly and respectfully, likes guns, but has several other interest that keeps me from obsessing over everything gun related on a daily basis? 
Can I still be here?

Also, I don’t think there are any liberals on TGO. They get run off as soon as they give an opinion. The people some of you may think are liberals, I think they are just free thinkers not afraid to be verbally assaulted by a few thousand guys who happen to twisted a little too tight. 
 

How boring a life if most people agree on everything. How can you learn anything?

[eRay]

23 minutes ago, Links2k said:

What if i’m a person that despises both political parties, want other human beings to be treated fairly and respectfully, likes guns, but has several other interest that keeps me from obsessing over everything gun related on a daily basis? 
Can I still be here?

Also, I don’t think there are any liberals on TGO. They get run off as soon as they give an opinion. The people some of you may think are liberals, I think they are just free thinkers not afraid to be verbally assaulted by a few thousand guys who happen to twisted a little too tight. 
 

How boring a life if most people agree on everything. How can you learn anything?

Yes you can still be here. We will all still be friends. You just won't be considered hardly as radical as the rest of us. LOL

[Links2k]

.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Links2k