Trying to wrap my mind around the carry laws...

[Guest Pistorius]

Greetings, everyone.

I am in the process of getting my HCP and am trying to use my waiting time to figure out all the ins-and-outs of how I will carry. I have a couple of questions that I wanted to run by the veterans around here. I'm not trying to break the laws, but I would prefer to keep my gun with me as much as possible, rather than having to stow it in the car. Also, I do understand that if it's concealed most of the time it won't be an issue, but you could always have an accidental flash.

1) What is "substantially similar?" That is, what are the minimum requirements for a place to be legally posted? I know that they need more than just the circle/slash, but law doesn't define "substantially similar." Must if reference the law in question? Must it contain the part about the fine?

2) When the law says that all entrances must be posted, does that mean that if they aren't all posted the worst that can happen is that you'll be asked to leave? Specifically, I'm referring to the Bradley Square Mall in Cleveland, TN. There are signs at 3 of the 4 entrances to the parking lot. I'm not sure if the verbiage is correct as the writing on the signs is kind of small. Also, I don't believe there are signs on the mall entrances themselves. That said, if I were to carry, I could just let the officer know that I entered through the un-posted entrance, and I could avoid any legal repurcussions, correct?

I apologize if these questions are repeats, but I've been digging through some old threads and haven't had them answered to my satisfaction. I want to abide by the law, but I also want to be able to protect myself as much as possible.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[dralarms]

Greetings, everyone.

I am in the process of getting my HCP and am trying to use my waiting time to figure out all the ins-and-outs of how I will carry. I have a couple of questions that I wanted to run by the veterans around here. I'm not trying to break the laws, but I would prefer to keep my gun with me as much as possible, rather than having to stow it in the car. Also, I do understand that if it's concealed most of the time it won't be an issue, but you could always have an accidental flash.

1) What is "substantially similar?" That is, what are the minimum requirements for a place to be legally posted? I know that they need more than just the circle/slash, but law doesn't define "substantially similar." Must if reference the law in question? Must it contain the part about the fine?

2) When the law says that all entrances must be posted, does that mean that if they aren't all posted the worst that can happen is that you'll be asked to leave? Specifically, I'm referring to the Bradley Square Mall in Cleveland, TN. There are signs at 3 of the 4 entrances to the parking lot. I'm not sure if the verbiage is correct as the writing on the signs is kind of small. Also, I don't believe there are signs on the mall entrances themselves. That said, if I were to carry, I could just let the officer know that I entered through the un-posted entrance, and I could avoid any legal repurcussions, correct?

I apologize if these questions are repeats, but I've been digging through some old threads and haven't had them answered to my satisfaction. I want to abide by the law, but I also want to be able to protect myself as much as possible.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Why would you wish to spend your money at a place that restricts your ability to protect yourself? Yes those signs at BSM are legal, and in that instance I don't think "officer I came in through x entrance and it's not posted" would be an excuse. BSM lost a bunch of money last year from me. Once I saw it was posted I quit going. You can't even legally leave your gun in your car on their property.

[Fallguy]

On Question 1, I'm not sure there is any case law to truly define what "substantially similar" is. IMO I would say that at the very least it would need to reference 39-17-1359 and state what weapons (if not all) and where (if not everywhere) they are banned.

On Question 2, the actually doesn't say just all entrances, but all entrances primarily used by people entering the property. If a place was to property post all the primary entrances to the parking lot, then they wouldn't have to post the actual building because it would be illegal to go past the signs, even into the parking lot.

If a place is not properly posted, then yes, all they can really do is ask you to leave.

As far as the mall you referenced, I do not think I would tell an officer I entered through a non posted entrance because that could imply you are aware that some entrances are posted. If I said anything I would say there was not a sign (I did not see a sign) at the entrance I used.

[Guest Pistorius]

Why would you wish to spend your money at a place that restricts your ability to protect yourself? Yes those signs at BSM are legal, and in that instance I don't think "officer I came in through x entrance and it's not posted" would be an excuse. BSM lost a bunch of money last year from me. Once I saw it was posted I quit going. You can't even legally leave your gun in your car on their property.

If it were an individual business that had posted, I would agree with you. However, there is a shop in the mall, of which the owner is a good friend, and so I would not deny him my business just because I wanted to make a point to the mall administration.

IMO I would say that at the very least it would need to reference 39-17-1359 and state what weapons (if not all) and where (if not everywhere) they are banned.

That's what I was thinking. In my opinion, a sign is not a law, nor could it have legal force unless it invokes a law. But I am no lawyer, so I do not know if this would stand up in court.

On Question 2, the actually doesn't say just all entrances, but all entrances primarily used by people entering the property. If a place was to property post all the primary entrances to the parking lot, then they wouldn't have to post the actual building because it would be illegal to go past the signs, even into the parking lot.

If a place is not properly posted, then yes, all they can really do is ask you to leave.

As far as the mall you referenced, I do not think I would tell an officer I entered through a non posted entrance because that could imply you are aware that some entrances are posted. If I said anything I would say there was not a sign (I did not see a sign) at the entrance I used.

Again, I know that if the gun is properly concealed, it would not even be an issue, but I just want to make sure that the unposted entrance, which is not some sort of service or delivery entrance, would allow me to avoid any sort of legal ramifications. If it ever became an issue, I would probably do as you said, and merely tell that the officer that I looked for and did not find a sign at the entrance I used.

[Mousegun]

After we hopefully get restaurant carry, park carry, loaded rifle in vehicle carry, and a host of other annoying laws straightened out, the next best one would be if we could get the misdemeanor charge removed if caught in a "no carry" zone and give us a chance to leave before being prosecuted.

That one would be nearly impossible but I can dream of it and I will.

[Guest abailey362]

stating that a certain entrance is not posted implies knowledge of other properly posted entrances.

general rule of thumb for this comes into play. "Just play stupid".

officer - did you know this area is posted?

me - no. i looked on the doors as i came in and saw no signs at all and assumed this mall was ok.

officer - well the parking lot entrances are posted

me - are you sure? i came in the first entrance and dind't see anything. i always come in there because there's less traffic going in and i get a left turn arrow.