Mass shooting- Philadelphia edition

[btq96r]

40 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

I want to address this one point because my primary issue with universal background checks for all transfers is that it can only be effectively enforced in one way, a registry. That is a hard no for myriad reasons. 
 

I do believe that if the government made available access to some form of NICS for individuals to perform a check when engaging in a private party sale, most all folks would make use of it.  Not only do I think it would go a long way towards keeping criminals from buying guns on the open market, I could see it making it easier to prosecute and convict those involved in straw purchases. 
 

 

I'm not worried about a registry.  I'm also not volunteering for one either.  But if it was on the table in trade for a repeal of the NFA to allow SBRs and suppressors the same status as any other FFL item...I'd probably want to make that trade. 

It could allow responsibility for guns to be traced if part of a crime, which is a good thing for cracking down on the straw purchases.  It could also help shift civil liability to the individual level for a misused firearm, which would go a ways towards keeping the manufacturers out of the debate like we're seeing come back to the debate.

Plus, I think there are so many guns out there, that the fear of confiscation that comes with a registry isn't practical as a government action.  I sometimes joke, let them get a registry...that'll show them how bad an idea confiscation actually is when they see what they'd be up against beyond some academic estimate.  That's if the government can actually do it.  Setting up, integrating, and maintaining a database like that is easier said than done.

Edited June 8, 2022 by btq96r

[Erik88]

25 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Erik, my friend, I think you’ve finally stumbled onto the right path.

Actually I've been consistent on this for over a decade. You just like to twist my words when I speak out against republicans on other topics. I genuinely hate both parties and seriously doubt republicans care more about the 2nd amendment than they do getting re-elected. If the political winds shifted and the GOP thought gun control would help them, they would do it. 

In fact, we have a history of gun control being used by both parties to keep guns out of the hands of black people. I like to make liberals feel guilty by pointing out how future gun control will disproportionately impact minorities. The same cops they claim are evil sure as hell won't enforce these new laws equally. Much like the old crime bill and war on drugs, gun control will be a disaster.

 

 

 

[Chucktshoes]

14 minutes ago, btq96r said:

I'm not worried about a registry.  I'm also not volunteering for one either.  But if it was on the table in trade for a repeal of the NFA to allow SBRs and suppressors the same status as any other FFL item...I'd probably want to make that trade. 

It could allow responsibility for guns to be traced if part of a crime, which is a good thing for cracking down on the straw purchases.  It could also help shift civil liability to the individual level for a misused firearm, which would go a ways towards keeping the manufacturers out of the debate like we're seeing come back to the debate.

Plus, I think there are so many guns out there, that the fear of confiscation that comes with a registry isn't practical as a government action.  I sometimes joke, let them get a registry...that'll show them how bad an idea confiscation actually is when they see what they'd be up against beyond some academic estimate.  That's if the government can actually do it.  Setting up, integrating, and maintaining a database like that is easier said than done.

Yeah, still a hard no. A registry is a red line for me and unlike the politicians using that phrase willy-nilly in the matters of foreign policy, I understand exactly what it means for an action to be declared as such. 

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

Actually I've been consistent on this for over a decade. You just like to twist my words when I speak out against republicans on other topics. I genuinely hate both parties and seriously doubt republicans care more about the 2nd amendment than they do getting re-elected. If the political winds shifted and the GOP thought gun control would help them, they would do it. 

In fact, we have a history of gun control being used by both parties to keep guns out of the hands of black people. I like to make liberals feel guilty by pointing out how future gun control will disproportionately impact minorities. The same cops they claim are evil sure as hell won't enforce these new laws equally. Much like the old crime bill and war on drugs, gun control will be a disaster.

 

 

 

On that note, the folks at Salon.com want gun control so bad, they’ll even excuse racism to get it. 
 

https://www.salon.com/2022/06/08/when-ronald-reagans-saved-lives-armed-black-men-meant-immediate-control_partner/

 

edit: they deleted the original headline after getting called out extensively on it. But the internet never forgets. 
 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Chucktshoes

[moodster]

14 hours ago, Erik88 said:

-red flag laws? Again, seems unlikely and terrifying. A lot of these shooters didn't even have red flags such as the Vegas shooter. The ones that did have known issues law enforcement or their family dropped the ball. 

 

Many of them DID have red flags though, the problem is like you said, those red flags don't end up on a NICS background check, they aren't reported to law enforcement, or law enforcement/mental health professionals/school counsellors/staff/etc fail to follow up/investigate/report/take action. 

There's a fine line with regard to things that could/should raise an actionable red flag. It would be interesting to see some data on individuals who have been, for lack of a better term, red flagged. Whether that's in a state with red flag laws, or by some other action that resulted in potential prevention of shooting vs innocent stripped of rights.

Edited June 8, 2022 by moodster

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

Actually I've been consistent on this for over a decade. You just like to twist my words when I speak out against republicans on other topics. I genuinely hate both parties and seriously doubt republicans care more about the 2nd amendment than they do getting re-elected. If the political winds shifted and the GOP thought gun control would help them, they would do it. 

In fact, we have a history of gun control being used by both parties to keep guns out of the hands of black people. I like to make liberals feel guilty by pointing out how future gun control will disproportionately impact minorities. The same cops they claim are evil sure as hell won't enforce these new laws equally. Much like the old crime bill and war on drugs, gun control will be a disaster.

 

 

 

Perhaps we are closer ideologically than I thought.

[gregintenn]

Folks, you do not want red flag laws. A liberal judge or sheriff would consider the mere fact you desire to own a firearm grounds enough to take yours away. Further, it would prove to be the weapon of choice for a jilted lover or ex wife. No good would come of this whatsoever.

[Grunt67]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

Erik, my friend, I think you’ve finally stumbled onto the right path.

Politicians, as well as criminals, don’t give a chit about kids dying, or obeying laws. Politicians don’t care about criminals having guns. They want YOUR guns!!!!! Why do you think that is, Erik?

 

Yessir! Folks, I've said it before, this is not about "gun" control, it's about people control.  When they take our guns they have control of us.

Remember Nazi Germany? Confiscated all guns, we know how that went.

[Links2k]

6 hours ago, Erik88 said:

I think Democrats would rather pass gun control than actually work to make the schools safer. 

That’s a car the left doesn’t really want to catch. We’d be taking away Don Quixote’s windmill dragon.

The left keeps saying they’re going to restrict gun rights.  The right keeps saying the left is coming after our guns. The only thing that actually happens is fund raising going through the roof on both sides. 
 

Stop worrying.  I can’t stress enough…

 

[gregintenn]

30 minutes ago, Links2k said:

That’s a car the left doesn’t really want to catch. We’d be taking away Don Quixote’s windmill dragon.

The left keeps saying they’re going to restrict gun rights.  The right keeps saying the left is coming after our guns. The only thing that actually happens is fund raising going through the roof on both sides. 
 

Stop worrying.  I can’t stress enough…

 

I would not be surprised at all to later learn you are correct. But what if you’re wrong?

[Grayfox54]

Nobody wants to talk about the real problem. We are facing the collapse of our society and a loss of moral values.

In most households both parents have to work. The result is that kids barely know them. Parents know even less about their kids. 

Kids don't have positive role models. Athletes who beat their wives/ GFs? Singers and actors who's personal lives are a mess? Politicians and authority figures who abuse their power and are crooked as a snake? No. They end up looking up to drug dealers and gang members because they have money and power. 

Then there's the peer pressure kids are under. Many are constantly being told they're weird, worthless and a POS. Believe me, nobody can be as cruel as another kid. 

Add an education system that doesn't work. They don't teach kids anything useful. The goal is simply to push these kids through the system with as little trouble as possible and fill their minds with liberal garbage. The kids that actually graduate are functional illiterates with no clue as to how to face the real world. Reality then slaps them in the face mercilessly. 

The end result is that you wind up broken young people who have no hope for the future and no regard for human life or themselves. 

Its taken decades to reach this point and I honestly have no idea how to fix it or even if it can be fixed.  I fear that a total collapse of our society is inevitable. 

[deerslayer]

1 hour ago, Links2k said:

 

Stop worrying.  I can’t stress enough…

 

Tell that to people in NY, CA, CT, MA, IL, etc.  

[deerslayer]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

Folks, you do not want red flag laws. A liberal judge or sheriff would consider the mere fact you desire to own a firearm grounds enough to take yours away. Further, it would prove to be the weapon of choice for a jilted lover or ex wife. No good would come of this whatsoever.

Exactly.  Some of the people deciding whether or not you have a gun are the same people who claim all NRA members are terrorists and anyone who voted for Trump is a racist.  

[Chucktshoes]

4 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Exactly.  Some of the people deciding whether or not you have a gun are the same people who claim all NRA members are terrorists and anyone who voted for Trump is a racist.  

Wouldn’t it be great if the NRA was the hardcore gun rights organization that the gun control people think it is?

[TGO David]

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and greased with the blood of innocents.

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

We are facing the collapse of our society and a loss of moral values.

Go back to media from when you were 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, today... You've been hearing that your entire life.

[Chucktshoes]

9 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Go back to media from when you were 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, today... You've been hearing that your entire life.

That’s true. And they were right. The complete and total destruction of two millennia’s building of a civilization isn’t an overnight endeavor. But the speed sure is picking up.

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and greased with the blood of innocents.

Man, I seriously doubt the intentions of the folks steering the car.

[RED333]

6 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

I do believe that if the government made available access to some form of NICS for individuals to perform a check when engaging in a private party sale, most all folks would make use of it.

This would be great, but not holding my breath.

[Links2k]

5 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

Then there's the peer pressure kids are under. Many are constantly being told they're weird, worthless and a POS. Believe me, nobody can be as cruel as another kid. 

Add an education system that doesn't work. They don't teach kids anything useful. The goal is simply to push these kids through the system with as little trouble as possible 

Two very good points, but this is where I put on my tin foil hat.  My apologies. It’s a bit long. 
 

Our government and corporate interest don’t want an educated populace.  They’re fine with doctors, engineers, bankers, IT types and a few others, but they need everyone else grinding hard until they’re at least 72 years old.  The powers that be need the undereducated to feed the machine. 

Take for instance calling SOME of the lowest paid individuals in our economy “essential workers” during a global pandemic so that we could still go to the grocery store and get those magical goods that keep showing up there.  Pure genius, and some were happy to perform without additional compensation, because they needed the work. Another thing, I give Memphis credit for the restoration of the riverside, new hotels and housing being built downtown, but that investment is small when compared to the warehouses that NIKE, Amazon and others are building all over Shelby County. There’s not a labor shortage in Memphis, the undereducated know that almost all of the jobs pay the same, so if an employee has one bad day, so long FedEx, hello Amazon. Just bring hands, a strong back and an optional work ethic. 
 

Outside of the aforementioned high wage earners and a few others, we should be pushing trade schools to kids not interested in a traditional education.  Individuals who attend trade schools seem a bit more motivated than kids getting a liberal arts degree, because mom and dad forced them to attend college. And most of the trade school kids also earn a pretty good living. 
 

6 hours ago, deerslayer said:

Tell that to people in NY, CA, CT, MA, IL, etc.  

None of those places are Tn, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, S.C., Florida, Georgia, Texas, Louisiana or Kentucky. I doubt any of those places are as passionate about 2A rights. 
 

4 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

Man, I seriously doubt the intentions of the folks steering the car.

You’re a wise man. 
 

 

 

[Whisper]

6 hours ago, Links2k said:

Outside of the aforementioned high wage earners and a few others, we should be pushing trade schools to kids not interested in a traditional education.  Individuals who attend trade schools seem a bit more motivated than kids getting a liberal arts degree, because mom and dad forced them to attend college. And most of the trade school kids also earn a pretty good living. 

There's a strong case to be made for the importance of trade schools, and they're a great path for many people.  But I think you're painting with a mighty broad brush regarding the motivation of kids getting liberal arts degrees.  As someone who's worked on a college campus for more than a few years, I would argue that kids majoring in mechanical engineering or biochemistry are vastly different from kids majoring in dance theory or French food. 

[deerslayer]

8 hours ago, Links2k said:

None of those places are Tn, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, S.C., Florida, Georgia, Texas, Louisiana or Kentucky. I doubt any of those places are as passionate about 2A rights. 

I wonder if they once were, but one too many said, “That can never happen here.”  Complacency is a bitch.  The people who run those places can run America sooner or later.  

Edited June 9, 2022 by deerslayer

[Darrell]

I am not minimizing the horror of school children being shot by madmen, but I saw an interesting statistic this morning. According to what I read, there are about 54 Million kids in grades K-12 every year in this country.  Over the past 29 years that have been 170 kids killed in school shootings. There shouldn't be any, of course.  Draw your own conclusions from the numbers... 

[Darrell]

Duplicate post.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Darrell

[Links2k]

9 hours ago, deerslayer said:

I wonder if they once were, but one too many said, “That can never happen here.”  Complacency is a bitch.  .  

So is being in a constant state of fear and alertness.  It takes a real toll on the body and mind.