Mass shooting- Philadelphia edition

[FUJIMO]

And just like clockwork.....

https://nypost.com/2022/06/05/philadelphia-mass-shooting-leaves-at-least-two-dead-13-injured/

 

[RED333]

Not to be out done, Chi town this weekend

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2021/6/5/22520130/chicago-weekend-shootings-june-4-homicide-gun-violence

Nearly 60 people were shot in Chicago over the weekend, one of the year’s most violent with more than half the shootings occurring in neighborhoods that have borne the brunt of gun violence all year.

In all, it was the most shootings for a weekend this year, though others have been deadlier.Five people died, compared to 12 over a weekend toward the end of May

[bersaguy]

All these laws the politicians are trying to pass that is trying to take away the Second Amendment is causing many of these shootings. Bad guys don't care about the laws and I think if they cause enough gun havoc while the politicians debate new gun laws that will prevent the law abiding Americans from owning guns it will make the bad guys actions safer knowing less good guys will have guns to protect themselves with. That is if existing gun owners will begin to use common sense and quit leaving guns in unlocked vehicles in their driveways to arm the bad guys with!........JMHO

[Erich]

Throw in our own little Scenic City taking Chi towns lead of banger like activity! Last night there was a multiple shooter incident at a club. They are trying to throw in some numbers from the vehicular injuries (1 car fatality) for those that ran into traffic as they segued to Oklahoma and TX as if they are identical events.

I would love to see the administration explain how assault weapons bans are going to stop 99.9% of "gun violence" deaths that dont involve AR's or 30rd mags. The irony being the largest share of the numbers may  involve their constituents that put them in office (for the ones that having lost their right to vote that is) versus the demo they are coming after.

[monkeylizard]

2 hours ago, Erich said:

I would love to see the administration explain how assault weapons bans are going to stop 99.9% of "gun violence" deaths that dont involve AR's or 30rd mags.

They already know that and they don't have to explain it. They just have to make it happen. It's the "low hanging fruit" that makes the next step easier . . . then the next . . . and the next

[Erich]

15 minutes ago, monkeylizard said:

They already know that and they don't have to explain it. They just have to make it happen. It's the "low hanging fruit" that makes the next step easier . . . then the next . . . and the next

Sadly too true. Keep wanting to believe people want to think for themselves and ask the right questions.

Have to keep reminding myself its not stupidity as much as bad actors using misrepresentations and leaps in logic against a group that is simply ignorant in the subject area and won't educate themselves for a number of reasons.

 

 

 

 

[Grayfox54]

They want an easy answer to an extremely complex problem. That's all gun control is. Unfortunately, many unknowing and ignorant people believe these lies. 

There are an estimated 400 Million guns in circulation in this country in the hands of about 81 million citizens. Approximately 20 million of those are AR style rifles. If a bad guy wants a gun, he will find one. Stopping sales will have no effect at all. 

These high casualty shootings in Philly, Chicago and now Chattanooga are making the national news because they fit the agenda. What seems to be the common denominator is that two groups (likely gangs) collide in a public place and start randomly spraying bullets in each other's general direction. Sadly, innocents get caught in the crossfire. 

While it is a tragedy, sadly its just another weekend in the big city. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Grayfox54

[Garufa]

It’s Chattanooga you’re thinking  of @Grayfox54, not Knoxville.

[Grayfox54]

Oops, sorry. 

Fixed it. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Grayfox54

[et45]

There was a time when Chattanooga Police went out and conducted round ups of gang members.That was several mayors and police chiefs ago.Today they have a bleeding heart liberal mayor who went and hired a police chief who checks all the boxes.

[peejman]

We need to stop calling it gun violence. That gives an object to blame. It's not gun violence, it's just violence. If not guns it would be bombs, knives, acid, .... 

[Daniel]

Keep sticking your fingers in your ears and hands over your eyes and heads in the sand while children are massacred around you.  These arent illegally purchased guns stolen out of cars being used to kill elementary school kids.  Ill take a little more hassle to hopefully save some lives.  

[Darrell]

9 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Keep sticking your fingers in your ears and hands over your eyes and heads in the sand while children are massacred around you. 

Really? You honestly think people on this forum are pretending that these shootings didn't occur?   I don't think there's anything, practically speaking,  by way of gun control that's going to prevent a motivated murderer from committing one of these horrible crimes. Restricting good people, who aren't going to commit a crime anyway, isn't going to help when some deranged elbow decides to go off like this.

[FUJIMO]

3 minutes ago, Darrell said:

Really? You honestly think people on this forum are pretending that these shootings didn't occur?   I don't think there's anything, practically speaking,  by way of gun control that's going to prevent a motivated murderer from committing one of these horrible crimes. Restricting good people, who aren't going to commit a crime anyway, isn't going to help when some deranged elbow decides to go off like this.

Don't waste your time, hes an agitator, nothing more. 

[Daniel]

7 minutes ago, Darrell said:

You honestly think people on this forum are pretending that these shootings didn't occur? 

Not what I said.


Do I think responsible restrictions on gun ownership are needed?  Yes.  Will that create a delay for "good" people. Yes.  Does that bother me a bit? Nope.

[Chucktshoes]

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

Not what I said.


Do I think responsible restrictions on gun ownership are needed?  Yes.  Will that create a delay for "good" people. Yes.  Does that bother me a bit? Nope.

My only answer is to quote the fine gentlemen at the FPC.

 

#### you. No. 

[Erik88]

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

Do I think responsible restrictions on gun ownership are needed?  Yes.  Will that create a delay for "good" people. Yes.  Does that bother me a bit? Nope.

Honestly, what laws do you think will help? I've been thinking about this a lot. 

-"universal" background checks? Not a chance. Nearly all these mass shooters passed a background check. The rest of people commiting gun crime will never worry about taking a background check. 

-red flag laws? Again, seems unlikely and terrifying. A lot of these shooters didn't even have red flags such as the Vegas shooter. The ones that did have known issues law enforcement or their family dropped the ball. 

-assault weapons ban? Nope. The evil POS at Virginia Tech killed 32 people with a Glock and even a mix of standard and 10 round mags. The last year we have data, 2018, the FBI says only 297 people were killed with rifles compared to 6,600 with handguns. 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

-Raising the age to buy rifles? Seems like a feel good attempt to say we're doing something. Also seems like we can't decide at what age people are really adults since we let them vote and join the military at 18. 

We have a lot of issues in this country but I'm really struggling to think of new gun laws that are going to stop this aside from an all out Australia style round up. Even then, the black market for guns would go on for decades. 

The other uncomfortable topic hardly being discussed is what % of this rampant crime is gang related? That's why they barely discussed the Chattanooga and Philadelphia shooting. That's a huge problem we won't even begin to solve. 

If anything, we need affordable access to mental health treatment and increased focus on rebuilding the family unit. Anything else is a huge waste of time. 

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, Erik88 said:

Honestly, what laws do you think will help? I've been thinking about this a lot. 

-"universal" background checks? Not a chance. Nearly all these mass shooters passed a background check. The rest of people commiting gun crime will never worry about taking a background check. 

-red flag laws? Again, seems unlikely and terrifying. A lot of these shooters didn't even have red flags such as the Vegas shooter. The ones that did have known issues law enforcement or their family dropped the ball. 

-assault weapons ban? Nope. The evil POS at Virginia Tech killed 32 people with a Glock and even a mix of standard and 10 round mags. The last year we have data, 2018, the FBI says only 297 people were killed with rifles compared to 6,600 with handguns. 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

-Raising the age to buy rifles? Seems like a feel good attempt to say we're doing something. Also seems like we can't decide at what age people are really adults since we let them vote and join the military at 18. 

We have a lot of issues in this country but I'm really struggling to think of new gun laws that are going to stop this aside from an all out Australia style round up. Even then, the black market for guns would go on for decades. 

The other uncomfortable topic hardly being discussed is what % of this rampant crime is gang related? That's why they barely discussed the Chattanooga and Philadelphia shooting. That's a huge problem we won't even begin to solve. 

If anything, we need affordable access to mental health treatment and increased focus on rebuilding the family unit. Anything else is a huge waste of time. 

Im going to have to go at least with the "feel good" 21 year of age for semi auto rifles.  At least.  Im pretty ok with universal background checks also despite me saying earlier that these people that I am discussing for the most part if not complete part are getting their weapons legally.  I was not ok with the bumpstop stocks.  Im not okay with the brace "pistols" nor the 80% lowers.

[Daniel]

3 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

My only answer is to quote the fine gentlemen at the FPC.

 

#### you. No. 

I dont know what the fpc is.

[RED333]

6 hours ago, Erik88 said:

Honestly, what laws do you think will help? I've been thinking about this a lot. 

I as well have been thinking as I am sure most of us are. The background of the shooters from when they were in their teens is a start. Let the NICS system look back as far as needed. However the issuies have to be reported to NICS to work.

 

6 hours ago, Erik88 said:

If anything, we need affordable access to mental health treatment and increased focus on rebuilding the family unit. Anything else is a huge waste of time. 

Like this about a million times!!!

[Erik88]

6 hours ago, Daniel said:

Im going to have to go at least with the "feel good" 21 year of age for semi auto rifles.  At least.  Im pretty ok with universal background checks also despite me saying earlier that these people that I am discussing for the most part if not complete part are getting their weapons legally.  I was not ok with the bumpstop stocks.  Im not okay with the brace "pistols" nor the 80% lowers.

We have to ask what we're actually wanting to accomplish when considering new laws. Unfortunately none of the proposals the Democrats are after will do anything to lower crime. Let's not forget many of the school shooters stole their parents or relatives guns. We're sending billions of dollars to Ukraine when we could be spending that on school security. I think Democrats would rather pass gun control than actually work to make the schools safer. 

[btq96r]

11 hours ago, Erik88 said:

-"universal" background checks? Not a chance. Nearly all these mass shooters passed a background check. The rest of people commiting gun crime will never worry about taking a background check. 

I agree with you that the chances of prevention in this are low...but I'd support it anyway for consistencies sake if nothing else.  Just helps tighten things up a bit without infringing.  But I admit, I may be the rare one on here that doesn't see a background check in it's current state as an infringement as the 2nd Amendment protects from.

 

11 hours ago, Erik88 said:

-Raising the age to buy rifles? Seems like a feel good attempt to say we're doing something. Also seems like we can't decide at what age people are really adults since we let them vote and join the military at 18. 

The voting and military comparisons are a bit hard for me to equate.

I think 18 for voting is fair since that's when (or used to be) when most folks went into the workforce in full or part time after high school was finished.  The age may be off for the current era, but the basic principle of having a say in how your tax dollars are allocated through elected representation is important.

The military is a different story.  Firearm usage in the military is hella controlled.  Anyone who was in can laugh at how much "Army fun" came with anything involving a weapon.  There is plenty of training, all kinds of supervision, plus the easy and instant option to remove a weapon from someone unstable by simple order and not due process (happens more often than you think).  Those conditions are different in deployed environment, but still present to a large degree.  It's just a different concept than letting someone walk out of a store with a long gun at 18 because they passed a background check.  For kids today, 18-21 is still very much an emotional development period.  It always was, but it's just worse lately given how things are structured.  So, acknowledging mine is likely a minority opinion here, I'm fine with raising the age for rifle purchases to 21 as well.

 

11 hours ago, Erik88 said:

We have a lot of issues in this country but I'm really struggling to think of new gun laws that are going to stop this aside from an all out Australia style round up. Even then, the black market for guns would go on for decades. 

You can stop struggling, you have it spot on.  We're just not willing to say out loud what we're willing to endure as a risk/consequence to keep the liberty the 2A protects.  Don't get me wrong, I've been shaken to the core at the thought of kids being shot at close distance in a school.  It's as vile a thing as I can imagine, and I don't blame anyone for asking the question of "is it worth it?" when it comes to the 2A compared to that. 

We shouldn't be afraid, or shut down the debate when this happens, because I think it's never a bad thing to reaffirm our commitment to the Bill of Rights.  My default will always be to have citizens capable of owning weapons that match our potential oppressors at an individual level.  That doesn't mean I have to castigate someone who thinks the risk we're seeing come to pass is too high.

[Darrell]

Here's how I see it:  No matter what or how many gun control laws are passed, it will never be enough for the left. Pass a law banning all AR-style rifles and the shooters will go to what most murderers use, a pistol.  Then the next ban will be against pistols.  Gun control advocates have been clear that they are taking an incremental approach, seeking to take away what they can this time, and chisel another little piece away later. They expect to eventually get everything they want that way.

I think there are already enough restrictions on gun use, and am in favor of prosecution of everyone who violates the existing laws. I think that anyone who lies on a 4473 as Hunter Biden did, should go to jail and be prohibited from future purchases. Use a gun in a crime, go to prison for a long time. Shoot up a school, burning at the stake sounds about right to me. 

I would probably be in favor of raising the age to purchase a firearm to 21, but then I would favor raising the age to vote to 21 as well. And maybe even to drive. Whatever age is determined to be "adult" should apply across the board, not willy nilly.

[Chucktshoes]

52 minutes ago, btq96r said:

I agree with you that the chances of prevention in this are low...but I'd support it anyway for consistencies sake if nothing else.  Just helps tighten things up a bit without infringing.  But I admit, I may be the rare one on here that doesn't see a background check in it's current state as an infringement as the 2nd Amendment protects from.

 

I want to address this one point because my primary issue with universal background checks for all transfers is that it can only be effectively enforced in one way, a registry. That is a hard no for myriad reasons. 
 

I do believe that if the government made available access to some form of NICS for individuals to perform a check when engaging in a private party sale, most all folks would make use of it.  Not only do I think it would go a long way towards keeping criminals from buying guns on the open market, I could see it making it easier to prosecute and convict those involved in straw purchases. 
 

 

[gregintenn]

4 hours ago, Erik88 said:

We have to ask what we're actually wanting to accomplish when considering new laws. Unfortunately none of the proposals the Democrats are after will do anything to lower crime. Let's not forget many of the school shooters stole their parents or relatives guns. We're sending billions of dollars to Ukraine when we could be spending that on school security. I think Democrats would rather pass gun control than actually work to make the schools safer. 

Erik, my friend, I think you’ve finally stumbled onto the right path.

Politicians, as well as criminals, don’t give a chit about kids dying, or obeying laws. Politicians don’t care about criminals having guns. They want YOUR guns!!!!! Why do you think that is, Erik?