No .45's

[Guest Astra900]

There have been rumors for a while about the US military going to another pistol, and possibly going back to the .45 cartridge. I just read in American Rifleman that the US just ordered 450,000 new M9's. That's good for the workers at the Beretta plant I suppose, and the Beretta 92 is a fine pistol.

I'm not impressed though. I know it's the same old Bull:poop: argument, but there's been alot of complaints about the 9x19's effectiveness. I also hope there's something in that new contract to get our troops some better magazines. I've read many complaints about some of the substandard magazines issued for the M9.

Atleast it lays to rest all the rumors that make you curious.

[Kegger]

Yeah, we're sicking with the 9mm. The Army has so much invested in it that they don't want to leave it. Though most pistols in service are getting very near to the end of their expected life span.

But yes, the mags do suck something fierce. I've dealt with many stoppages due to mags.

I just always used my own when we went to the range.

[RoDan]

I don't understand why the military uses 9x19 when it is limited to FMJ ammo. When you are limited to FMJ, logic as well as physics dictate that you want to make the biggest hole possible, because bullet performance has gone out the window. I'm a 9mm guy, but only with modern JHP ammo.

[Guest HexHead]

I don't understand why the military uses 9x19 when it is limited to FMJ ammo. When you are limited to FMJ, logic as well as physics dictate that you want to make the biggest hole possible, because bullet performance has gone out the window. I'm a 9mm guy, but only with modern JHP ammo.

The thinking when Germany developed the 9mm Parabellum was if you kill an enemy soldier, you take one man out of the battle. But if you wound him, you take 3-4 men away from the fighting.

[Garufa]

The thinking when Germany developed the 9mm Parabellum was if you kill an enemy soldier, you take one man out of the battle. But if you wound him, you take 3-4 men away from the fighting.

Actually, that is the theory behind full metal jacket ammunition in general.

Don't forget that the 9mm Parabellum was developed before the .45 acp and, I'm gonna go out a limb here, but has probably been more effective throughout the years than any other caliber.

Europeans are unequalled in killing throughout the 20th century. They weren't doing it with what we consider "proper" calibers. There are thousands of Americans in graveyards over there that can attest to that.

Like it or not 9mm is the international handgun caliber. It's effective. The NATO load (European style) is quite a bit hotter than BB or WWB 115 grainers that we take to the range.

I think Berretta is not the choice for the USA but it's a done deal. There are better designs.

[Guest m&pc9]

Does the gooberment sell surplus handguns or do they destroy them.

[Guest Astra900]

Good question, I wonder if the CMP could sell 'em?

[Guest FroggyOne2]

The ten years that I have been shooting highpower and dealing with the CMP.. I can't say that I have ever seen any pistol for sale by the CMP.

[Moped]

The reason the 9mm was accepted by the U.S. Military was because it was the standard round in NATO except for us. We used the .45acp. So in the spirit of standardizing ammunition throughtout NATO, we adopted the 9MM and dropped the best pistol round ever carried by an American Soldier.

At the same time the 5.56x45 became the standard NATO rifle round. The 7.62x51mm was still used by most NATO countries at the time.

I wonder though, during Desert Storm, many of the reserve and National Guard Units still carried 1911a1. Were they still in service during our lastest conflicits? Not a Special Ops guns, but in regular units?

[GLOCKMEISTER]

9mm is a poodle popper... period!

The Govt. should have went with the Sig 226 if they were going to have to stay with 9mm.... IMHO!!!!

[Guest Astra900]

Personally, I think they should have gone with the M&P by S&W. I actually prefer the XD, but for our military, it would be better to give the contract to a COMPLETELY domestic manufacturer. THey aren't doing that with Beretta.

[Guest slim]

True, most of these pistols have reached the end of their service life, but the problem is our govt. the bad mags for it were made by a govt. contractor, the insides were not finished properly thus causing the springs to stick due to sand, dust etc. thats why Beretta developed sand resistant mags for them and solved that problem.

However there is a huge shortage of all parts for these pistols and they are on the bottem of the burner. In other words routine maint. replacing springs, etc. at certain intervals cant be done, but whats really sad when soldiers have to take their own mags overseas to insure the guns will work

[GLOCKMEISTER]

we sell tone of handguns they are sneeking into Iraq and Afghanistan, then selling them over there before they come back.

[TNRobocop]

The reason the 9mm was accepted by the U.S. Military was because it was the standard round in NATO except for us. We used the .45acp. So in the spirit of standardizing ammunition throughtout NATO, we adopted the 9MM and dropped the best pistol round ever carried by an American Soldier.

At the same time the 5.56x45 became the standard NATO rifle round. The 7.62x51mm was still used by most NATO countries at the time.

I wonder though, during Desert Storm, many of the reserve and National Guard Units still carried 1911a1. Were they still in service during our lastest conflicits? Not a Special Ops guns, but in regular units?

During Desert Storm I was in the 101st Abn Div as an infantryman and most of us still carried a 1911A1, albeit in the new Bianchi suicide holster.

Mine was a Remington Rand, didn't have a bit of color on it, and still worked like a champ.

About 6 months after we got back I was the unit armorer. We sent all of out 1911's to depot for refurb. Got them back about 2 months later. New grips, sights, reparked, 4 new mags in the wrapper, new barrels, the works.

Three months later we swapped them out for M9's.....

As far as CMP goes, they haven't been able to sell .gov surplus pistols for over 30 years IIRC.

[Guest slim]

There have been many reports going around for yrs. that the US Army decided to go with the 5.56 (poodle popper as Janes weapons calls it) since if you wound an enemy with the 5.56, rather then kill him as with the .308, you have a wounded soldier who needs 2-3 people to care for him long-term.

But if you shoot him with a .308 he is dead, however officially nobody ever

said so!

[DaveTN]

It is shameful, and I feel a little guilty that I am better armed that our combat troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Even many Police departments have acknowledged the ineffectiveness of both the 9mm and the .223 and have switched.

[DaveTN]

Does the gooberment sell surplus handguns or do they destroy them.

The days of Military weapons hitting the streets are over. With the exception of the old rifles CMP sells, I would not look for any military weapons to hit the market; ever. Even military brass was (until recently) slated to be destroyed.

Firearms will be destroyed or sold/given to other countries.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Maybe im in the minority but I loved my Beretta 92fs I had. Really regret selling that all steel wonder. The question is what is better having 8rds of .45 or 20(with the new mags) of 9mm in a war situation. I would have to vote for the 9mm....but I do carry a .45 daily because I dont plan on being attacked by more then 2 ppl at the same time and I it is more concealable then something Beretta sized.

[Guest slim]

I dont much care for the 9mm mil. ball round, but a good HP + is a vast improvement for self-defense!

It is hard to carry a 92 concealed.

Edited March 21, 2009 by slim

[nightrunner]

It is hard to carry a 92 concealed.

depends on your build