Flowchart for Legal Carry

[StephenB]

I have spent some time analyzing the TN gun laws for my own knowledge and tried to simplify the most common scenarios that many of us may encounter.  The following flowchart doesn't include all situations like employees of universities with permits, for example.  However, I tried to include what I understood as the laws and how they pertain to those with and without a permit.  I am not sure that this is exactly correct and the law seems to be a bit more complicated than I would like, but I attempted to put it in a format that I could more easily consume.  I would appreciate any feedback or help in validating what is here.  Please do not bank on this being 100% acccurate as laws change and my interpretation may not have been correct in some situations.  Hopefully it helps some of us not get into unnecessary trouble.

Thanks

EDIT:  Updated May 27, 2022

 

 

TN Gun Carry Law Flowchart-updatedMay272022.pdf

Edited June 15, 2022 by StephenB

[Defender]

I like this!  Do you have one for HCP and enhanced HCP?

[WindHawk]

Nice work.  Thanks!  I'll need to study it and the law more to fully understand the details.

[StephenB]

7 hours ago, Defender said:

I like this!  Do you have one for HCP and enhanced HCP?

It has a branch in the flow that asks the question if the individual has a concealed or enhanced.  I started to do a flow with the perspective of the permit itself, but quickly discovered it flows better based on where you may be going and then ask the question about the permit where it's relevant.

[chances R]

Doesn't included an option for employees of post-secondary educational institutes with ECP and notification of campus police for allowable carry.

[StephenB]

2 hours ago, chances R said:

Doesn't included an option for employees of post-secondary educational institutes with ECP and notification of campus police for allowable carry.

Agree.  I saw that in the law but did not include it as a common scenario; however, I'll probably go back and include situations like that, federal parks, etc.  Thanks

[elbereth]

This is great and thanks for your work. I've been looking for an Excel based comparison of the 3 permit types and the situations where they are or are not allowed. Are you aware of one of those that already exists?

 

[StephenB]

1 hour ago, elbereth said:

This is great and thanks for your work. I've been looking for an Excel based comparison of the 3 permit types and the situations where they are or are not allowed. Are you aware of one of those that already exists?

 

I only know of two permit types - concealed and enhanced - and they are called out on the flowchart with basically no difference except maybe in reciprocity. Which third permit were you thinking? 

[elbereth]

Third meaning permitless carry.

[elbereth]

44 minutes ago, StephenB said:

I only know of two permit types - concealed and enhanced - and they are called out on the flowchart with basically no difference except maybe in reciprocity. Which third permit were you thinking? 

Third meaning permitless carry

[StephenB]

2 hours ago, elbereth said:

Third meaning permitless carry

Yes.  It's included in the flowchart as well.

[Links2k]

Nice work!

[StephenB]

I just uploaded a later version where I had changed "Permitted" and "Not Permitted" to "Allowed" and "Not Allowed" because I realized that may have been confusing with the previous question and the meaning of the term "permitless" carry.

[chances R]

StephenB, please check this again......Playground, civic center, or other area owned or operated by municipal, county, or state government for recreational purposes

(b)(1)(H)(i)  is the exception for permit holders

[StephenB]

1 hour ago, chances R said:

StephenB, please check this again......Playground, civic center, or other area owned or operated by municipal, county, or state government for recreational purposes

(b)(1)(H)(i)  is the exception for permit holders

Actually, I had assumed that same thing in my initial version; however, in the law it never states the exception for a playground, civic center, or other city/state/county area for recreational purposes.  The title of the specific section of the law refers to 4 different areas - "public parks, playgrounds, civic centers, and other public recreational buildings and grounds".  In 39-17-1311 (b)(1)(H)(i) it explicitly lists areas where the exception applies for permit holders, but does not include those 4 listed above.  It's confusing and I missed it initially until I spotted in some US LawShield materials that there was no carry in those 4 areas for any permit holder and I went back and corrected the flowchart.

[chances R]

21 minutes ago, StephenB said:

Actually, I had assumed that same thing in my initial version; however, in the law it never states the exception for a playground, civic center, or other city/state/county area for recreational purposes.  The title of the specific section of the law refers to 4 different areas - "public parks, playgrounds, civic centers, and other public recreational buildings and grounds".  In 39-17-1311 (b)(1)(H)(i) it explicitly lists areas where the exception applies for permit holders, but does not include those 4 listed above.  It's confusing and I missed it initially until I spotted in some US LawShield materials that there was no carry in those 4 areas for any permit holder and I went back and corrected the flowchart.

The law for carry was specifically designed to avoid those public enities from being able to create a matrix of confusing and contridictary laws.  Since I have been teaching the carry courses since 2012, those areas we are discussing are completely legal for carry by permit.  To be prohibited they would have to invoke all conditions noted under 39-17-1359 (g)(1).  This was implemented to ward off a lawsuit regarding carry at the Knoxville fairgrounds during the fair.  Sometimes I have found US Law Shield can be misleading.

[StephenB]

Just now, chances R said:

The law for carry was specifically designed to avoid those public enities from being able to create a matrix of confusing and contridictary laws.  Since I have been teaching the carry courses since 2012, those areas we are discussing are completely legal for carry by permit.  To be prohibited they would have to invoke all conditions noted under 39-17-1359 (g)(1).  This was implemented to ward off a lawsuit regarding carry at the Knoxville fairgrounds during the fair.  Sometimes I have found US Law Shield can be misleading.

Good info but I wonder why they explicitly listed everything but those. I do understand why a playground may be off limits especially given the same reason a park during a school event is. 

[chances R]

"recreational areas" is a very broad brush.  This would include greenways, dog parks, specific parks such as Victor Ashe park here in Knoxville which is a multi-sport park, sometimes used by schools for cross-country or soccer.  Public golf courses and on and on.  One could imagine the complexity of go/no go, so carry is permitted by state law which trumps local ordinances.  In fact, only the State can regulate firearms, exception is the Federal Gov'mt.

[StephenB]

15 minutes ago, chances R said:

"recreational areas" is a very broad brush.  This would include greenways, dog parks, specific parks such as Victor Ashe park here in Knoxville which is a multi-sport park, sometimes used by schools for cross-country or soccer.  Public golf courses and on and on.  One could imagine the complexity of go/no go, so carry is permitted by state law which trumps local ordinances.  In fact, only the State can regulate firearms, exception is the Federal Gov'mt.

I actually lived in Knoxville while in college. I probably heard of Victor Ashe park but don't remember. Too many years ago. So during those times it is used by schools, no carry is allowed. In reading the law, is almost like it's a bit forgiving if it was not explicitly known there was a school event. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by StephenB

[chances R]

It lies between Oak Ridge Hwy and Pleasant Ridge Rd....close to NorthWest Middle School.  Yes, if one becomes aware of a school event, one must then store the weapon in the car (locked of course) or leave.  If you want, the Handgun Division in Nashville can be very helpful with questions.  Or, there is regional rep from the division that can be reached.  Just ask any school for their number in your area.  BTW, I do enjoy these discussions and hopefully give some clarification especially here on TGO.  And yes, sometimes not all of the instructors agree....that's where Nashville comes in.

 

 

[StephenB]

19 hours ago, chances R said:

It lies between Oak Ridge Hwy and Pleasant Ridge Rd....close to NorthWest Middle School.  Yes, if one becomes aware of a school event, one must then store the weapon in the car (locked of course) or leave.  If you want, the Handgun Division in Nashville can be very helpful with questions.  Or, there is regional rep from the division that can be reached.  Just ask any school for their number in your area.  BTW, I do enjoy these discussions and hopefully give some clarification especially here on TGO.  And yes, sometimes not all of the instructors agree....that's where Nashville comes in.

 

 

I am going to correct the flow chart.  I think the only thing I need to do is possibly change some wording where I refer to the public park, natural area, etc. to include playground, civic center, and other recreational areas (just for examples based on 39-17-1311) to follow the same path where it asks if there is a school event and if not then checks for the concealed or enhanced permit.  Does that sound accurate?

[Garufa]

I applaud your efforts @StephenB.  Maybe you should send a copy of the flow chart to all representatives and senators in state government to help them understand what a quagmire of laws they’ve come up with.  

Maybe an illustrated picture will get through to them.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Garufa

[chances R]

1 hour ago, StephenB said:

I am going to correct the flow chart.  I think the only thing I need to do is possibly change some wording where I refer to the public park, natural area, etc. to include playground, civic center, and other recreational areas (just for examples based on 39-17-1311) to follow the same path where it asks if there is a school event and if not then checks for the concealed or enhanced permit.  Does that sound accurate?

Your 1st box seems to be inclusive of those areas, so the addition of the school clause would be proper.  Also possibly combining boxes 5&6 and eliminating the drop down of 5 may be proper as well.

[scatman]

@nod

[Rowdy]

It appears that on the far right the flowchart implies no concealed firearms in national parks.  That changed in 2010. They are allowed under certain conditions.

https://www.nps.gov/grsm/learn/management/lawsandpolicies.htm