Go back to work please.

[Chucktshoes]

14 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I wonder if there is a point at which this isn't true? Meaning can we get to a point where there are more open job openings than qualified workers? We're back to unemployment numbers we saw before the pandemic(50 year lows). 

I have a theory on what might have to happen to fill the gaps but it would be extremely unpopular on TGO. 

You’ve mentioned that solution before, but it’s a solution that ultimately only helps shareholders as the primary effect isn’t filling up positions, but driving down the wage point those positions can be filled at. 

[Chucktshoes]

1 minute ago, btq96r said:

We probably have that now.  Our system was not optimized to train well.  I suppose my prior comments should come with the disclaimer about that, but I was really talking about the labor market in a competitive sense.  When there's real competition for workers, companies can and should undercut each other to attract/retain talent.  We're seeing it in a lot of places...nursing is a great example of where a sub-service the whole enterprise can't do without needs to be funded at least a short-term loss to stay solvent.

And yeah...you're avoiding the "i word"...but as we reach the realistic work limits of our current population, we'll need more labor to keep things even, and certainly to grow.  It's just a question of if we're ready to have a work based system that's used to close gaps, because the primary purpose for the old one was to keep wages suppressed.

There’s another facet to our system not doing the training part of what it takes to fill labor slots effectively. There’s also the question of are the requirements for the job realistic or even necessary? If it is cheaper to fill a position with a post secondary educated H1B then with a high school educated native, it begs the question as to whether the degree is actually necessary, or just an arbitrary requirement.

[Erik88]

15 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

You’ve mentioned that solution before, but it’s a solution that ultimately only helps shareholders as the primary effect isn’t filling up positions, but driving down the wage point those positions can be filled at. 

Good points. I want to mention I'm very much in favor of what we're seeing with the job market right now. It's a breath of fresh air to see a sliver of power being shifted to workers instead of corporations. I hope it lasts a while. 

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, btq96r said:

Repeat after me: there is no such thing as a labor shortage in a free market.

Every job can be filled for the right price.  That may be more than acceptable profits for an employer would allow, and I get that means the cost of things go up to correct the margin.  But that's not the labor market's fault, that's a consumer issue.  If a service or product is too expensive to produce at a point where it can be tendered for a profit...it's either the financial model being unreasonable, or the service/product itself is the problem.  This is a healthy purging of inefficiencies in an unbalanced labor market.  It's messy now, but good for the long-term.

A lot of folks aren't leaving the workforce, they're just switching jobs because hiring is catering to what their current employer for some reason refuses to budge on some things.  Expectations are high on that list.  I'm seeing this a lot in my place of employment.

"Good pay" is subjective when people have finally woken up to realize just how tilted the system really is towards those with equity and their capital partners.  I'm still a capitalist despite what some probably think, but if we don't have vibrant jobs that provide an avenue for upward mobility for the middle class, it's Marx/Lenin time sooner rather than later.  Workers want more returns from their effort than they're getting.  Right now, there is so much competition that for the first time in a long time, they have options to seek that.  They're also seeing out other incentives than W2 comp.  A lot of folks will come back to the office kicking and screaming, and look for a job where that's not required.

I applaud those who put family and personal happiness over a false satisfaction they get from working themselves to the bone.  I'm not able to be among them yet, but that's a psychological flaw on me I hope to work out someday.  We let ourselves become our work before other things, and a sociological change was pretty much overdue.

You overlooked the real root cause of the current labor shortage. It is now possible to live comfortably in our country without ever doing anything constructive.

 Cut off the government teat, and the labor shortage will end immediately.

[MacGyver]

3 hours ago, OldIronFan said:

 when I could be doing software development from my home office right  now. 
 

I cannot stress this strongly enough - but for at least the next couple generations - there is no ceiling on the GDP of the internet.

Add in the fact that we're still early enough that knowing enough of any scripting language to get "hello world" on the internet coupled with enough SQL knowledge to write a join statement - and you've got as close to a superpower as anyone has ever had.

As much as software is eating the world - there is capacity for a lot more.

We'll likely reach a point where coding is a reliable blue collar job - kind of the 21st century equivalent of your grandad's generation factory job.  It's likely to be the gateway into the middle class for a lot of people.  And it's likely to make some of the more industrious of those folks really wealthy. 

Basic coding skills will make you better at just about any job you have - it makes you think differently - and allows you to solve problems with a different toolset.

 

[bubbadavis]

7 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Basic coding skills will make you better at just about any job you have - it makes you think differently - and allows you to solve problems with a different toolset.

Using logic to decompose a problem into solvable chunks...  What a novel concept!

[Quavodus]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

I wonder if there is a point at which this isn't true? Meaning can we get to a point where there are more open job openings than qualified workers? We're back to unemployment numbers we saw before the pandemic(50 year lows). 

I have a theory on what might have to happen to fill the gaps but it would be extremely unpopular on TGO. 

Meaning we deport the worthless pieces of crap? Lol.

[deerslayer]

3 hours ago, Erik88 said:

The thing that hasn't been mentioned is that many people don't get overtime. I've been in my field 11 years and have been salary 10 of those. There were many days I worked 12 hours and only got paid for 8. But you can bet your ass they bitched if I needed to take an hour off for a Dr appointment. 

I'm just now in my first hourly job and they complain if we work too much overtime. We only get 5 hours of OT per week. 

 

 

Yep been salary since 2008 and I don't ever want to do it again unless nobody has my phone number.  

[btq96r]

2 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

There’s another facet to our system not doing the training part of what it takes to fill labor slots effectively. There’s also the question of are the requirements for the job realistic or even necessary? If it is cheaper to fill a position with a post secondary educated H1B then with a high school educated native, it begs the question as to whether the degree is actually necessary, or just an arbitrary requirement.

Spot-on.  We have a lot of box checking in the hiring process that should be examined.  The "labor shortage" forcing that issue would be a benefit. 

 

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

You overlooked the real root cause of the current labor shortage. It is now possible to live comfortably in our country without ever doing anything constructive.

 Cut off the government teat, and the labor shortage will end immediately.

It's a conversation to have.  Work requirements should be on the table to discuss.

 

1 hour ago, MacGyver said:

Basic coding skills will make you better at just about any job you have - it makes you think differently - and allows you to solve problems with a different toolset.

 

On a contract job for a DARPA program that was being handed over to big Army, I started to dabble in small things behind the scenes.  It wasn't proper coding, but just getting to play with the web.config files of our servers taught me to think with what I now know as paradynamics.  It's made me so adaptable to different problems and needs where I can be of benefit to the organization.  It's why you see a lot of engineer types in financial analysis (one of which I learned a lot from in my first two years on the current job before he left).

Quote

We are a system, by and large; much of what surrounds us are systems in one way or another. The key premise of paradynamic modelling is that any system structure needs to be seen as potentially inherently complex rather than simple, and as necessarily multi-dimensional. Every system is seen as tending to operate on a number of ‘levels’, and/or axes, where there are component parts within each level, and where processes of interaction occur between different-level components. The levels operate in parallel with each other and the components within each level can intersect with components on other levels in a dynamic process of interaction.

 

[eRay]

Last job I worked before I retired worked from 2:00 PM to 10:00 PM 7 days a week. No off day at all for the 6 months I was assigned to it.

[DJTC45]

11 hours ago, Erik88 said:

Exactly what I was about to say. I'm fine working 50 hours a week but after that I start to question my choices. I doubt many people are on their death bed thinking "I sure am glad I worked all those extra hours"...

 

 

I'm not quite on my deathbed not close enough yet(hopefuly), Stage 4 Colon Cancer, Stage 4 Liver Cancer. I'm 56yrs young, I've been a Union Pipe Welder for 36yrs started when I was 18yrs old working with my father in the trade. We would put in 16hrs-18hrs a day seven days a week, sometimes in 3 month stretches straight. It does take a toll on you body and mind, especially when you spend anywhere between 3-7 months away from home in another state200mi to  800miles from home and only comming home maybe two or three times during the work span. I had to take a Disability Retirement from my job due to the effects of the Chemotherapy and having to do that every 2weeks now for a year and 4months and still going to have to keep up that schedule until it quits working. The hours I've worked over the years and being laid-off when the job was done, I would come back home and maybe not work for 3months before I got another job sometimes here in Tn, other times I had to travel to other states for work and the wages they were paying and the overtime they offered (you end up paying two mortgage's one for your motel bill, and the house you own here in TN. with out the overtime and benefits like healh, retirement, and other benefits that you need to carry you for 3-6months not working, try that sometimes). I agree with you on not killing yourself when your working long hrs. on the job, we all have better things to do than spend your weekends grinding out the work. I chose this type of work cause I really enjoyed it, it's something special and stressful job cause you sometimes need to pass the exray test they do, I've worked on high-pressure Natural Gas Pipelines, 100% exray on every weld you do screw up twice collect your check and head out to another job. What a living. Here's a picture of a main steam line i  one of the local Power Houses. This Pipe is 3 1/4" thick and is made of 90% chrome, 10% carbon and is 20" in diameter. Took 12 welders 6 on days, 6 on nights for seven day's straight 12hrs. a day. My point to this rambling is that I was able to do the Disability Retirement, and the Social Security Disability and still enjoy our life, without working all those hrs. and days there is no way I could afford the med. insurance for my treatment ($9800.00) every two weeks, don't think that I don't pay for my health insurance just because I worked in the Union, far from the truth I pay $1100 amonth comes out of my retirement check just for med. insurance. So the time spent from home, all the hrs. I worked over those years have kept a roof over are heads food on the table, and still live somewhat comfortably not Elon Musk comfortable but ordinary pepole comfot. 

[Snaveba]

Elon Just paid 44 Billion for Twitter and still has 77 Billion left from what his net worth increased just last year. I did the math and if Elon had worked a regular 40-hour week job last year, his hourly rate would haven just north of 58million per hour. 

[Snaveba]

The difference between 1 million dollars and 1 Billion dollars. 
 

If one dollar is a second, 1 million dollars is about 11.57 days while 1 billion dollars is 31.7 years. 

[peejman]

I've been salaried exempt my entire 20+ year career. I've never gotten a nickel in overtime. In that time, I've gotten exactly 1 annual merit increase that was more than inflation that year, and that was a long time ago. The other 2 salary increases have been via changing jobs.  

The only 40 hr weeks I've ever put in the book were vacations. 50 is generally considered the minimum, so I work to a 25% pay cut most weeks. Years ago I was told that our bonus was supposed to cover all the extra hours. I did the math once and that came to $1.87/hr. 

Now that I have kids, I'm exceptionally unmotivated to do anything over and above. Theres no promotion, bonus, comp time, professional development, or overtime on the table.  And they wonder why they've had a hard time filling a couple empty slots. 

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, peejman said:

I've been salaried exempt my entire 20+ year career. I've never gotten a nickel in overtime. In that time, I've gotten exactly 1 annual merit increase that was more than inflation that year, and that was a long time ago. The other 2 salary increases have been via changing jobs.  

The only 40 hr weeks I've ever put in the book were vacations. 50 is generally considered the minimum, so I work to a 25% pay cut most weeks. Years ago I was told that our bonus was supposed to cover all the extra hours. I did the math once and that came to $1.87/hr. 

Now that I have kids, I'm exceptionally unmotivated to do anything over and above. Theres no promotion, bonus, comp time, professional development, or overtime on the table.  And they wonder why they've had a hard time filling a couple empty slots. 

Do you have a binding contract with this employer? If not, you may want to seek alternate opportunities.

[gregintenn]

2 hours ago, Snaveba said:

Elon Just paid 44 Billion for Twitter and still has 77 Billion left from what his net worth increased just last year. I did the math and if Elon had worked a regular 40-hour week job last year, his hourly rate would haven just north of 58million per hour. 

And your point is?

[Snaveba]

12 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

And your point is?

Just that that is a ton per hour.  Now, I don’t see him making 121 Billion this year. 
 

I just happened to do the math today because my sister and I were talking about Jeff Bezos and how much he makes as compared up the average Amazon worker.  I then looked up who made the most money last year and saw it was Elon. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Snaveba

[Links2k]

7 hours ago, Erik88 said:

Good points. I want to mention I'm very much in favor of what we're seeing with the job market right now. It's a breath of fresh air to see a sliver of power being shifted to workers instead of corporations. I hope it lasts a while. 

I hope it last forever.

I’m not a biblical scholar, but wasn’t man initially put to work as punishment? If true, breaking your balls for forty years for someone else’s benefit is overrated. 

[Ski]

7 minutes ago, Links2k said:

I’m not a biblical scholar, but wasn’t man initially put to work as punishment? If true, breaking your balls for forty years for someone else’s benefit is overrated. 

It's a little more nuanced than that.  Man was put in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it per Genesis 2:15.  The fall came in Genesis 3.  Work became toilsome as part of the curse after the fall (verses 17-19).

[peejman]

10 hours ago, gregintenn said:

Do you have a binding contract with this employer? If not, you may want to seek alternate opportunities.

I have been looking for quite a while, but I'm being picky.  No bites yet.