International Harvester M1 question

[FireMedic]

Looking at purchasing one from a widow of a family friend. She is looking to get rid of a couple his guns and this one caught my eye on the list. I believe (if my research is correct) that International Harvester made the M1 in 30.06 and 308. This is simply marked as 7.62 which could technically apply to either as it could be 7.62x51 or 7.62x63. Is there any way to easily identify which it is? I haven't driven out to look at the gun I am just going off of pictures before I drive 3 hours each way to pick it up but I am not wanting to diversify my ammo stockpile anymore than it already is. I have 308 already and would absolutely buy it if it is but I am not wanting a 30.06. Any advice? 

[Quavodus]

If the price is right, I would buy it  which ever caliber it is. 

[monkeylizard]

^^^^ This.

Either caliber will be stamped "Cal. M 30" on the receiver behind the rear site.

Pull the charging handle back to lock the action open. This will expose a portion of the barrel on the right side. I'm nearly certain that a .30-06 barrel will have a few small numbers on it, but no caliber size. That's the way my .30-06 Garand is. A 7.62 NATO will be marked "7.62 MM" and "7.62 NATO". a .308 will be marked ".308"

Note that .308 and 7.62 NATO are not necessarily interchangeable, especially on a 70+ year old rifle.

Here's an example of a 7.62 NATO from a current GB auction.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by monkeylizard

[Garufa]

International Harvester produced M1’s in the 1950’s during the Korean War, none in 7.62x51mm (.308). No M1 rifle came from the factory in that caliber.

However, there were many converted in the 60’s by the government to 7.62, primarily for the Navy if I’m not mistaken.

I believe they were stamped 7.62.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Garufa

[monkeylizard]

Correct. There were also some post-war conversions to .308. I think primarily for the civilian market and competition shooting. Some even have *shudder* detachable magazines.

Edited April 24, 2022 by monkeylizard

[Grayfox54]

I'm no expert on the M1 Garrand, but the IHC guns were built 1953-56 for the Korean War. To the best of my knowledge, they were all made in .30-06. However, some M1s were given aftermarket conversions to 7.62X51. 

I would expect this one to be .30-06. If its been converted to .308 I don't think it would be worth as much as an original. 

BTW: Don't shoot a .30-06 M1 with commercial hunting ammo as it could bend the operating rod. Military M2 Ball ammo was designed specifically for the M1 and operates at a lower pressure than commercial .30-06. However, M2 Ball is still available and several of the big ammo makers do make loads specifically for the M1. 

But, I absolutely agree, if the price is right, BUY IT!

My Father worked for IHC for 33 years. I'd love to have a IHC Garrand. If you don't want it, I'd be interested.  

 

[Beltfed]

Before you drive, ask the lady to pull the op rod back and send you a pic of what’s stamped into the barrel.  Post here and I think we can identify the caliper.  You may have to talk her through the procedure.

[FUJIMO]

21 hours ago, Quavodus said:

If the price is right, I would buy it  which ever caliber it is. 

Best advice ☝☝☝

[FireMedic]

Thank you all much! I do appreciate the tips. I have written down yall's advice and a cousin of mine will go over in a week or so to see how it is marked on the barrel and send me a picture as well. I do appreciate it!

[Quavodus]

Any M1 Garand in decent shape for a decent price is one to get.

[monkeylizard]

23 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

I'm no expert on the M1 Garrand, but the IHC guns were built 1953-56 for the Korean War. To the best of my knowledge, they were all made in .30-06. However, some M1s were given aftermarket conversions to 7.62X51.

You're correct about the IHCs all being made for Korea. They didn't make WW2 Garands. I think it's interesting they were chosen in part because they provided geographic diversity in small arms production. Something that became more important with the threat of nuclear war. https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/the-international-harvester-m1-garand-rifle/

It's also correct that all Garands (of all manufacturers) left the factories as .30-06. AFAIK, all of the 7.62 NATO conversions were done for the US Navy. It didn't make sense to spend a ton of money on infrequently used rifles, so they had some Garands converted to meet the new-at-the-time 7.62 NATO standard.

Actual .308 models also exist but I think they were all true "aftermarket" conversions done for the commercial market, not military. It's possible some were converted to .308 by actual military arsenals for their competition shooters but I'm not sure about that.

I'm sure most TGOers know this but for those who don't, the 7.62 NATO and .308 are not different names for the same thing. They have the same dimensions, but 7.62 NATO brass is thicker leaving less space inside for powder grains. .308 runs "hotter" than 7.62 NATO. It generates higher pressure in the chamber. You can shoot 7.62 NATO in .308 chambers, but the reverse is not recommended, especially in old milsurps.

Edited April 25, 2022 by monkeylizard

[50 cal]

If the heel of the receiver is marked 7.62, it is a Navy converted rifle in .308

Those were done as Match rifles

[Gurn]

Which would probably make it more desirable 

[FireMedic]

Thank you all for your feedback! I greatly appreciate it!

[gregintenn]

I don’t understand the concept of consolidating calibers at all. If I want a rifle, I buy it. Every gun guy should have at least one Garand. After all, it is the greatest battle implement ever devised.

It really isn’t a big deal to buy ammo or reloading components/dies for another caliber. Having a diversified armament may well pay dividends in the future.

If it’s a decent rifle, and the price is realistic, buy the damned thing!

Furthermore, you’ll be helping out a widow. I think I remember reading something in the Bible about that.

Edited April 27, 2022 by gregintenn

[Gurn]

On 4/27/2022 at 2:41 PM, gregintenn said:

I don’t understand the concept of consolidating calibers at all. If I want a rifle, I buy it. Every gun guy should have at least one Garand. After all, it is the greatest battle implement ever devised.

It really isn’t a big deal to buy ammo or reloading components/dies for another caliber. Having a diversified armament may well pay dividends in the future.

If it’s a decent rifle, and the price is realistic, buy the damned thing!

Furthermore, you’ll be helping out a widow. I think I remember reading something in the Bible about that.

I agree. But I’ve always liked oddball calibers anyway. For example it’s kinda exciting when I run across a box of 8mm Siamese at a gunshow for a good price for that one rifle I have that used it.  The thrill of the hunt I guess. 

[Grayfox54]

On 4/27/2022 at 2:41 PM, gregintenn said:

I don’t understand the concept of consolidating calibers at all.

For a lot of people its a matter of cost and convenience. Having fewer calibers to be concerned with simplifies their shooting and inventory. Its easier and cheaper  to stockpile a big supply of just a few calibers than many. especially if you're just an occasional shooter or on a tight budget. 

I shoot most of the common calibers plus a couple that aren't so common. Off the top of my head, I count 15. However, I readily admit to passing on a gun simply because I don't want to mess around with another caliber. 

[FireMedic]

Well, the M1 question was moot. By the time I got to my aunts house he had already offered her 2G for it and I could not afford to pay any more than that so it is in his safe his tonight.

As to the consolidating calibers; I like to have a certain degree of confidence that ammo will be available without significant effort put into finding it. For example, 9mm and 45 ACP are found in most every gun store in America, 25 auto is not. 5.56 and 308 are likewise pretty readily available whereas 32-40 is not. If there was any single lesson I pulled out of the covid/fiery peaceful protests ammo shortage, it was to be able to capitalize on most common or likely to be found calibers. Additionally, there is the added benefit of cost being significantly cheaper to buy 1,000 shells of say 12 gauge vs 1,000 shells of 10 gauge or any other comparison between common "calibers" and less common ones like 243 vs 17 hmr. there may be exception here and there but overall, prices are lowest when going with the "masses".