Check out this mag change video!!

[molonlabetn]

...as a side note, the same guy was also saying, "Taking cover doesn't make any sense. Why would you EVER take cover?"

I thought IPSC was supposed to get one's head OUT of their rectal cavity...?

[Marswolf]

Guess I should clarify my view on this magazine change thing.

I don't believe for a minute that I could do mag changes that fast. Doubt many of us on this board could do it even with an eternity of practice.

But I see it as a stunt, like a circus act. It's entertaining. That's what it is supposed to be. It is an impressive display of skills that few people can learn or would want to learn. I can't become a trapeze acrobat either.

There is special equipment here. Apart from the gun, the magazine holder is definitely not normal in design or placement. I'll bet the gun has a few mods too. But that's fine. It's entertainment.

Bob Munden fits into the same group. Wonderfully tuned skills using a wonderfully tuned gun and low pressure rounds. Not practical, but entertaining.

I just don't understand why we are getting mad at each other about this. Don't agree with me? Fine. Give your view. Just don't call me, or someone else, stupid or something for stating their opinion.

Personally, I'd rather spend my time coaxing a WWII vet into talking about his Pacific Theater experience, as I did yesterday afternoon, than watching someone do quick changes. But your mileage may vary and that's fine too.

[Marswolf]

BTW, check out this page for some more interesting videos and photos.

[Guest Papabear]

Cool video, I know that he must have trained a long time to be able to do a mag change that fast. And I have seen video's of his shooting and they are equally impressive. I like to watch all the pro shooters on TV they devote alot of time and effort to get into the top of there respecitve sports.

[The Rabbi]

A gun board is the only place where a video clip of some guy changing magazines could lead to a fight.

It's a magazine change. That's all it is.

[molonlabetn]

I think the point is that if anybody could just pick up a super-custom race-gun and perform mag-changes that rapidly, it wouldn't be so extraordinary... That guy obviously has talent, and dedication to perfecting that particular operation.

However... impressive shooting, or operating one's equipment proficiently does not a warrior make (though it sure helps).

He's obviously good at what he does, and using a fine piece of machinery to do it with does not diminish that skill.

[The Rabbi]

I disagree. No one said anyone could pick up the same piece of equipment and do the same thing. But a bunch of us have said that with the same equipment and an equal amount of practice most of us could get close. I dont see any particular "talent" involved, other than some eye-hand coordination.

As far as making for a "warrior", he doesn't claim to be (or I guess he doesnt, the video makes no such claim). Nor do I think being a "warrior" is what developing good gun handling skills is all about. In fact I think it's laughable.

[molonlabetn]

I disagree. No one said anyone could pick up the same piece of equipment and do the same thing. But a bunch of us have said that with the same equipment and an equal amount of practice most of us could get close. I dont see any particular "talent" involved, other than some eye-hand coordination.

As far as making for a "warrior", he doesn't claim to be (or I guess he doesnt, the video makes no such claim). Nor do I think being a "warrior" is what developing good gun handling skills is all about. In fact I think it's laughable.

I suppose that anybody could have been Mario Andretti given the same time behind the wheel of a race-car... Some people simply have extraordinary aptitude for certain things. I don't doubt that some people could get "close"... depending on what one considers "close".

These 'games' are not simulation of self-defense, much like the Grand-Prix is not simulation of driving on public roads... hence, the proficiency gained is largely useless for anything but winning the game. (unless he carries around his race-rig and speed mag-pouch, of course). I don't disagree that it would be far more impressive to see similar speed using a practical carry pistol, and drawing mags from concealment.

Perhaps being a 'warrior' isn't what development of gun-handling skills is all about to you, but I have little personal use for gun-handling skills which are impractical in real-life (perhaps 'warrior' isn't the best descriptor of that). Entertaining stunts won't keep me alive. We're both entitled to our preferences... whatever floats our boat...

[Marswolf]

Well, there are real warriors and pretend warriors.

[molonlabetn]

Well, there are real warriors and pretend warriors.

[The Rabbi]

Well, there are real warriors and pretend warriors.

the last guy I heard describe himself as a "warrior" was about 40 lbs overweight. The last battle he had been in was the battle of the bulge, and he had clearly lost badly.

I think it is laughable, nor do I think there is much place for "warriors" in a civilian society.

I prefer to think of it as being competant, even skilled, in a tool that I use for a variety of things, including self-defense, games, and other amusements.

Very few people put the same amount of time into their driving skills as they do with their gun handling, despite the fact that multitudes more people are killed on the roads than are killed by guns. And I've never seen a video of someone demonstrating shift technique that has everyone else arguing how good it is or not.

[jgrauman]

you guys have to check out this video, he's pretty fast

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duLAM_-b8B0[/ame]

[molonlabetn]

...nor do I think there is much place for "warriors" in a civilian society...

Isn't that called "Condition-White"?

[Marswolf]

Just because someone is a warrior, that doesn't mean he goes around attacking people at random. That's a thug, not a warrior.

It seems to me that if we had more warriors, we would also have more civility and a better civilization.

[The Rabbi]

Isn't that called "Condition-White"?

No, it isn't. Here is "Condition White"

Unaware and unprepared. If attacked in Condition White, the only thing that may save you is the inadequacy or ineptitude of your attacker. When confronted by something nasty, your reaction will probably be "Oh my God! This can't be happening to me."

Note nothing about "warriors" here.

[towerclimber37]

the last guy I heard describe himself as a "warrior" was about 40 lbs overweight. The last battle he had been in was the battle of the bulge, and he had clearly lost badly.

I think it is laughable, nor do I think there is much place for "warriors" in a civilian society.

heh...alot YOU know about warriors Rab...I know one that happens to be one HELLUVA librarian.

I also know one thats bald, has a paunch, can run about 40 miles with a rucksack and gear..and has quite a few other skills...I know a few others as well. Some of them I even served with...they STILL work just as advertised on the box.

[Marswolf]

A librarian???

Rabbi has a point though. There are a lot of self-proclaimed warriors who couldn't fight their way to their table from the Shoney's food bar. I know one who hid in a ditch. As I said, there are real warriors and pretend warriors. The real shame is when good people are suckered in and defend the pretend ones as heroes rather than the scum they are.

[The Rabbi]

"Scum" is a little harsh, no? They are pretenders and posseurs. And I suppose everyone is entitled to a little self-vanity now and then.

Again I reiterate that I see no place in a civilian society for a "warrior."

[Marswolf]

"Scum" is a little harsh, no?

I was thinking of a specific case of someone who left his wounded buddies and hid to protect himself during an attack. And I hear he continues to posture himself as a great warrior. That's scum. And other people know about him and defend him. That's just sick in my book. Not everyone can hack it in combat. I don't fault them for that. But I have a problem with someone who has proven that they won't or can't fight and continues to pretend that they can for some sort of fake glory.

It's like a local guy who is a fake Vietnam POW. I have no use for those who would steal the valor of real warriors. They are indeed scum.

Most of the Rambozos are pretty laughable and transparent. More dummyfied than scumified.

[The Rabbi]

I see your point.

A friend of mine likes to say he met the only clerk that was in Vietnam.

[robbiev]

Well, there are real warriors and pretend warriors.

That's certainly true. (and since we agree, it MUST be right )

One of the things I figured out pretty quick is many people think of themselves as warriors just because they can shoot a little.

...the last guy I heard describe himself as a "warrior" was about 40 lbs overweight. The last battle he had been in was the battle of the bulge, and he had clearly lost badly.

I'm not trying to be a smartass, but what does weight have to do with it?

[Marswolf]

A friend of mine likes to say he met the only clerk that was in Vietnam.

As someone once said, there was no place that was safe in Vietnam. But some places were less safe than others. That applies to our current situation too.

[molonlabetn]

"Scum" is a little harsh, no? They are pretenders and posseurs. And I suppose everyone is entitled to a little self-vanity now and then.

Again I reiterate that I see no place in a civilian society for a "warrior."

If, through cowardice, a self-proclaimed 'warrior' abandons the people whose backs he is supposed to be watching, resulting in their death... that's scum.

[The Rabbi]

I'm not trying to be a smartass, but what does weight have to do with it?

It's not weight, its physical condition. Someone who's training course seems to be to the buffet table and back is not what I would consider a "warrior" in any sense. He is not in fighting shape. Given a long run or strenuous exercise he will not do well.

Now, I am no fitness freak myself. But I don't claim to be anything other than a middle-aged overweight guy who shoots guns either.

[robbiev]

Now, I am no fitness freak myself. But I don't claim to be anything other than a middle-aged overweight guy who shoots guns either.

Same here, although, frankly, I'm not overweight, I'm fat.

For purposes of semantics, can we define "warrior?"