Do I even need a rear sight?

[jwhjwh54]

I got my hawken shooting pretty good at 50 yards and hitting a pie plate at 100. However the rear sight is completely bottomed out and I've filed down the front sight to the point I'm basically seeing a tiny nub above the rear sight base.It'd be pretty hard in any sort of slightly low light situation like a 5:00pm in the afternoon deer hunt light.  I'm going to go back to the range without a rear sight but I almost think if it's like bow hunting and I get the same anchor point, I won't need one.... kinda like my shot gun which just a bead. Anyways, should be interesting. If it doesn't work out, I've ordered a Lyman flip up sight but need to cut a dove tail. I'll end up taking it to a gunsmith because I don't have the files to cut one myself. 

Also, if ya'll see any issues here, I'm Shooting hornady 490 round ball, .010 lubed patch, 90grains of pydrodex rs, #11 CCI caps. 

[gregintenn]

You'll want a rear sight. I don't really know what to tell you without seeing the rifle, but I can say you'll soon have more money tied up in it than it's worth.

[jwhjwh54]

10-4. Yeah I think I'm fast approaching that point 

 I can dab some white nail polish or something on the front sight to help but I'll likely pop one pig or something next year and go well that was fun and put it up.... or I'll get hooked hah.  I've had this thing forever and haven't ever taken the time to get it dialed in so trying now. 

[MP5_Rizzo]

3 hours ago, jwhjwh54 said:

kinda like my shot gun which just a bead.

If the pigs are within 50 yards or less then I say yes it can be done.  There's a  YouTuber, Kristen Joy Weiss, that has done a video shooting without a rear sight.  She's not your average plinker, she's highly proficient. I've shot competition Highpower back before optics were and option so I know how iron sights and specifically sight alignment and sight picture work.  I've also shot not less then 70 plus thousand trap targets so I have a bit of experience of how not having a rear sight works. If you eliminate the rear sight your eye becomes the rear sight.  On a shotgun the sight alignment is done with and adjustable comb/stock.  It works exactly like a guns rear sight.  Move the comb up and your shot pattern will go up like wise down will lower the shot pattern down and so on with left and right windage.  So knowing that there is a big difference in sight picture between rifle/pistol or even archer sights compared to shotguns.  The focal point when shooting irons on rifles, pistols is the front sight even if the target may be blurry.  The big secret to shooting a shotgun correctly the focal point is the target no matter how blurry or you may not even see the front bead.  If the gun is set up correctly and you mount the gun consistently it will shoot where you are looking.

NOW THE MOST IMPORTANT AND CRITICAL PART ONCE YOU GET IT SET UP WITHOUT A REAR SIGHT.

YOU MUST MOUNT THE GUN EXACTLY THE SAME EACH AND EVERY TIME FOR THIS TO WORK.

 

[jwhjwh54]

Very informative! That makes sense on why a shotgun works. 
I’ll figure out the rear sight, it’s been fun getting this gun going. It’s giving me something to do besides flying in the off season. 
 

[gregintenn]

3 hours ago, MP5_Rizzo said:

If the pigs are within 50 yards or less then I say yes it can be done.  There's a  YouTuber, Kristen Joy Weiss, that has done a video shooting without a rear sight.  She's not your average plinker, she's highly proficient. I've shot competition Highpower back before optics were and option so I know how iron sights and specifically sight alignment and sight picture work.  I've also shot not less then 70 plus thousand trap targets so I have a bit of experience of how not having a rear sight works. If you eliminate the rear sight your eye becomes the rear sight.  On a shotgun the sight alignment is done with and adjustable comb/stock.  It works exactly like a guns rear sight.  Move the comb up and your shot pattern will go up like wise down will lower the shot pattern down and so on with left and right windage.  So knowing that there is a big difference in sight picture between rifle/pistol or even archer sights compared to shotguns.  The focal point when shooting irons on rifles, pistols is the front sight even if the target may be blurry.  The big secret to shooting a shotgun correctly the focal point is the target no matter how blurry or you may not even see the front bead.  If the gun is set up correctly and you mount the gun consistently it will shoot where you are looking.

NOW THE MOST IMPORTANT AND CRITICAL PART ONCE YOU GET IT SET UP WITHOUT A REAR SIGHT.

YOU MUST MOUNT THE GUN EXACTLY THE SAME EACH AND EVERY TIME FOR THIS TO WORK.

 

Hunting positions often make that last part difficult if not impossible.

[gregintenn]

57 minutes ago, jwhjwh54 said:

Very informative! That makes sense on why a shotgun works. 
I’ll figure out the rear sight, it’s been fun getting this gun going. It’s giving me something to do besides flying in the off season. 
 

I didn’t mean to discourage you. Sometimes you do a project just for fun or to see if you can; economics be damned.

I only meant to suggest that from a money standpoint, you might be better off buying a different rifle if you intend to get serious about muzzleloading.

[Alleycat72]

If you reduce the front sight and lower the rear sight, you're not doing anything.

[jwhjwh54]

13 minutes ago, Alleycat72 said:

If you reduce the front sight and lower the rear sight, you're not doing anything.

I figured I was doing something wrong. 

raise the rear sight to raise POI… not sure what I was thinking 

[gregintenn]

12 hours ago, Alleycat72 said:

If you reduce the front sight and lower the rear sight, you're not doing anything.

LOL! I didn’t even catch that.

[Alleycat72]

2 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

LOL! I didn’t even catch that.

It's happened to me. We get so focused on fixing the problem that we don't realize we forgot to plug it in. LOL

[jwhjwh54]

16 minutes ago, Alleycat72 said:

It's happened to me. We get so focused on fixing the problem that we don't realize we forgot to plug it in. LOL

So another day socked in and not flying therefore range time. I’ve got this thing shooting great at 50 and my first shot at 100 was an inch left then second was a minute of pig  low. 
 

I also reduced the charge to 80 grains. This thing is good to go now, I’m pumped 

 

[gregintenn]

It’s funny how something as simple as a muzzleloader can be so much fun. It really doesn’t take a lot to entertain us guys. Glad to hear you’ve got it shooting like you want. Next deer season, we’ll be expecting pictures!

[jwhjwh54]

Yeah It was fun to change things up. Now those Kentucky long rifles are looking pretty cool too! I think I'll be able to go down Turkey hunting in April and after the turkey hunt I'm definitely going to go stalk for some hogs. Just gotta watch out for snakes 

Will have pics for sure. My brother was saying I need to get a buck skin suit hah 

[Bad Karma]

Those Hawkens sell for 3-500 bucks pretty regularly. I’m not sure I see where you’re “soon going to have more into it than it’s worth”. They are dandy hunting rifles and spending 500 bucks for a “better” rifle would be a folly in my opinion. I’ve yet to find very many better rifles for the job. Reliable as a rock and easy to look at, what more could you want?