TN Permit Holders to be classed as LEOs?

[Defender]

Tennessee sure has some weird gun laws.  I’m a retired law enforcement officer with Federal LEOSA credentials.  Tennessee makes it very difficult for me to be legal under LEOSA.  Even when one asks questions, you get the run-around.  They won’t recognize my LEOSA credential issued by the feds, and insist I get a Tennessee form signed by my former agency to go to the range and validate my LEOSA right to carry. Getting a Tennessee form signed in a timely manner by an agency, even a federal one, in another state, is very very difficult.  On a positive note, though, I was able  to get a lifetime Retired Law Enforcement HCP.

[bobsguns]

5 minutes ago, Defender said:

Tennessee sure has some weird gun laws.  I’m a retired law enforcement officer with Federal LEOSA credentials.  Tennessee makes it very difficult for me to be legal under LEOSA.  Even when one asks questions, you get the run-around.  They won’t recognize my LEOSA credential issued by the feds, and insist I get a Tennessee form signed by my former agency to go to the range and validate my LEOSA right to carry. Getting a Tennessee form signed in a timely manner by an agency, even a federal one, in another state, is very very difficult.  On a positive note, though, I was able  to get a lifetime Retired Law Enforcement HCP.

Might I ask whom "they" are that are refusing your creds? The TBI? Locals? 

[Grayfox54]

3 hours ago, Worriedman said:

It would allow that. All Parks as well.

 

Ok, let me reword that. Where would we NOT be allowed to carry? 

[Worriedman]

12 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

Ok, let me reword that. Where would we NOT be allowed to carry? 

Courtrooms for one, anyplace posted or where you are asked to leave if firearm is noticed.  Airplanes.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Worriedman

[300winmag]

The bill does not make someone who has an enhanced carry permit a law enforcement officer or give that person LEO arrest powers like the media is trying to scare the public.

The bill should be read and also you have to read 39-17-1350 and the carry privileges allowed for some state employees, including non LEO employees, while not working.  

Those carry privileges include (while not working) the ability to carry at K-12 schools, colleges, all state and local government property, 'posted' property (unless asked to leave), etc. 

So basically this bill would enhance the TN enhanced permit similar to the MS enhanced permit.

Edited February 20, 2022 by 300winmag

[A.J. Holst]

If it lets me carry past a metal detector, great.

If not, I don't see my life changing.

Concealed is concealed.

[Defender]

14 hours ago, bobsguns said:

Might I ask whom "they" are that are refusing your creds? The TBI? Locals? 

Tennessee POST.

[bobsguns]

7 minutes ago, Defender said:

Tennessee POST.

Ah, ok.

Glad you eventually got it resolved in some way. Don'tcha just loooooooooove those bureaucrats???? 

[Worriedman]

13 hours ago, 300winmag said:

The bill does not make someone who has an enhanced carry permit a law enforcement officer or give that person LEO arrest powers like the media is trying to scare the public.

The bill should be read and also you have to read 39-17-1350 and the carry privileges allowed for some state employees, including non LEO employees, while not working.  

Those carry privileges include (while not working) the ability to carry at K-12 schools, colleges, all state and local government property, 'posted' property (unless asked to leave), etc. 

So basically this bill would enhance the TN enhanced permit similar to the MS enhanced permit.

Bingo!

Fianlly, someone who reads...

[Worriedman]

4 hours ago, A.J. Holst said:

If it lets me carry past a metal detector, great.

If not, I don't see my life changing.

Concealed is concealed.

It would.

 

[gregintenn]

On 2/19/2022 at 6:51 AM, JustEd said:

Please don't ban me....but,

It makes some sort of sense in today's homeless, drug addict, snatch and grab world.  While I have no intention of policing the world, the more good honest citizens with guns spread about, the better.

So here is the part where I get banned:   "Would  be willing to get more training and further vetting for the privilege of carrying in the aforementioned prohibited areas."

What's really cool is you are free to go get more training, which is a great idea by the way, without government mandating it or even dangling a carrot in front of you to urge you on.

[BHunted]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

What's really cool is you are free to go get more training, which is a great idea by the way, without government mandating it or even dangling a carrot in front of you to urge you on.

Maybe I'm missing something here and I read it all. There is nothing saying you cannot get more training even now. But ya aint getting it for free.
Go get as much as you can handle. There is plenty out there to be had.

I think this bill is just worded wrong and could care less about it. I've been carrying for decades before I moved to TN. I carry now 99.25% of the time. I haven't really had any desire to go somewhere where I am not allowed to carry and could care less. In fact, haven't even ran across any.

It's pretty much a known fact that gun folks that are deep into this hobby could outshoot most leos.... But difference is they have to shoot under stress while we play with just targets.
LEO's jobs are just that. Most I know do not carry off duty because to them a gun is just a tool like a hammer is to a carpenter. They wear it all day and when they get home, everything gets dumped in their edc tray or wherever. And yea, quite a few suck at shooting.

We don't need this dumb bill., We need the proper wording of the recent constitutional carry just passed. That would probably resolve the bulk of the problem. If there was anything to worry about, that should be something to be concerned. At least we are getting trained or practicing in one way or another. The new no permit needed carry bs should concern everyone. I am not against it. But I know people will just go buy a gun, tote it and know jack about it. 
A year or so, a kid I know just bout his first gun when he turned of age with the enhanced permit. Good on him. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at 20ft. (It was a Performance Shop S&W). I told him I'd take it and see if it needed to be adjusted. The gun was spot on. I broke it down and it was filthy. I told him take a course and learn to clean his weapons. He couldn't take it apart or figure out how. He had this tall guy there that kinda looked like Trace Adkins. He couldn't figure it out either and was looking to add to his collection. I don't own any S&W at that time and they freaked when I broke it down in seconds. Big guy said, 'you see that? he just did it with one hand'....
Point I'm trying to make here is it seems we are clamoring about it - (the proposed law), giving us some sort of leo advantage. It's bs, we don't need it. Someone is looking for votes. Lets get what needs fixing on the current laws and start voting out these rinos that do nothing but try make names for themselves.

Edited February 21, 2022 by BHunted

[JustEd]

5 hours ago, gregintenn said:

What's really cool is you are free to go get more training, which is a great idea by the way, without government mandating it or even dangling a carrot in front of you to urge you on.

Actually I have had quite a bit of “one on one” training for armed defense. Other “group”courses as well. And as you say it never hurts to get more

The words of my first instructor (two day course) will always resonate with me:  “Edward, if you want to live you have to move. Back or side just move”

Second time I trained with him one on one:  “Don’t forget…move..,move…move.

Am from out west and don’t see as many people attending courses out here  could just be my perception  

 

 

[Grayfox54]

While I seriously doubt these bills have a chance, it would be a great opportunity to add an exemption to the NICS check for a EHP holder when buying a firearm from a dealer. 

[Worriedman]

12 hours ago, BHunted said:

 giving us some sort of leo advantage. It's bs, we don't need it. Someone is looking for votes. Lets get what needs fixing on the current laws and start voting out these rinos that do nothing but try make names for themselves.

Somebody is looking to get enhanced permit carriers the ability to carry where certain special groups who are held to be only Citizens by the Supreme Court of Tennessee (Off duty Officers) can.

[Worriedman]

On 2/21/2022 at 7:23 AM, BHunted said:

Most I know do not carry off duty because to them a gun is just a tool like a hammer is to a carpenter. They wear it all day and when they get home, everything gets dumped in their edc tray or wherever. And yea, quite a few suck at shooting.

I know a lot of LEOs and not a single one leaves the house without a firearm, or two.

As we must live in a world governed by the TCA Code, to affect change it has to be dealt with.

Granted the Vanderbilt staffers have botched up the summary as the bill simply adds Enhanced Permit holders to the "class" listed in 1350 as off duty, which does not give them "police powers" as they are and have been decried mere Citizens when off duty.  That is the focus of the bill, liberal reading of it notwithstanding.  Liberals like to twist words and meaning to achieve a goal of suppression of Rights.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Worriedman

[gregintenn]

17 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

While I seriously doubt these bills have a chance, it would be a great opportunity to add an exemption to the NICS check for a EHP holder when buying a firearm from a dealer. 

While that would be great, it'll never happen due to the loss of revenue.

[Capbyrd]

as someone that just went to work for the local goverment and reports to work in a goverment building, I'd very much like something like this to pass.

 

[chances R]

On 2/21/2022 at 7:43 AM, gregintenn said:

What's really cool is you are free to go get more training, which is a great idea by the way, without government mandating it or even dangling a carrot in front of you to urge you on.

More training is a positive..but in my experience people in general don't even want to get the minimal training of a CCP, much less the ECP given the permitless carry situation.  Basically, not going to happen and generally hasn't been the case anyway.

[Worriedman]

38 minutes ago, chances R said:

More training is a positive..but in my experience people in general don't even want to get the minimal training of a CCP, much less the ECP given the permitless carry situation.  Basically, not going to happen and generally hasn't been the case anyway.

And yet, we allow operators of 3500 lb. missals to "train" at 16 and drive the rest of their lives across a yellow or white line from us without additional instruction or training..  Further, aliens that have have no training and can't read the language of the road signs populate that list of operators with impunity.

[chances R]

TFA, I will take your response as truth....you may do the same with mine.  My statement was neither for or against any proposed legislation; it was simply an observation about people and firearms training.  

[Worriedman]

8 hours ago, chances R said:

TFA, I will take your response as truth....you may do the same with mine.  My statement was neither for or against any proposed legislation; it was simply an observation about people and firearms training.  

And I do not disagree.  I am a proponent of all the training one can afford, with class and ammo cost being somewhat restrictive.

If they would let me, I would attend the POST Certification training, I have the time now and am sure with the overburdened tax in TN I have  paid for it already.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Worriedman

[user1776]

On 2/19/2022 at 8:54 AM, Grayfox54 said:

Please clarify. Exactly where would a EHP holder be able to carry that we currently can't?  Would or would not that include privately owned and posted property?  Specifically stores, restaurants, sports stadiums, concert halls  and other public venues. 

The only limitations, as I am understanding it, are where FEDERAL LAW prohibits carrying, and in TN courtrooms. You can carry in schools if this bill passes as long as you let the principal know. 

For those interested in the reading of the bills, they are quite simple and only a few sentences: 

SB2523: https://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/112/Bill/SB2523.pdf

HB2554: https://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/112/Bill/HB2554.pdf

And here is the portion of the TN code that is modified by above bills (part D) only. Gives EHCP holders the authority to carry in all places except places prohibited by FEDERAL LAW or SECTION C : https://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2010/title-39/chapter-17/part-13/39-17-1350/

And here is a list of opinions that are relevant to questions about carrying: Authority of an Off-duty Law Enforcement Officer to Carry a Firearm on Public or Private Property (tn.gov)

 

While it would allow you to carry in a place that posts a prohibition to carrying... the property owner can always ask you to leave. This doesn't give EHCP holders the right to trespass! (At least I hope not!)

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by user1776

[user1776]

Off topic thought... but the way bills are written really annoys me. If you are modifying a portion of the existing TN code... there should be built-in links that take you to that section of the code so that readers of the bill can EASILY look up what is being modified and develop a better understanding of it. 

It took me a few minutes to find the portion of the TN code being modified... but I know it would take my parents far longer and they might decide it's not worth the hassle partway through. Adding a link to the TN code whenever you introduce a bill modifying that section should become a requirement when authoring bills!

[Worriedman]

8 hours ago, user1776 said:

Off topic thought... but the way bills are written really annoys me. If you are modifying a portion of the existing TN code... there should be built-in links that take you to that section of the code so that readers of the bill can EASILY look up what is being modified and develop a better understanding of it. 

It took me a few minutes to find the portion of the TN code being modified... but I know it would take my parents far longer and they might decide it's not worth the hassle partway through. Adding a link to the TN code whenever you introduce a bill modifying that section should become a requirement when authoring bills!

You would have to speak to the Legal Department, they write all legislation.