TN Permit Holders to be classed as LEOs?

[Worriedman]

Both the news and those law enforcement agencies, who have taken an oath to defend your rights under the constitution, are MISREPRESENTING or LYING about what this bill does.

There is a law already on the books in Tennessee TCA 39-17-1350, which is the subject of this bill, that addresses one issue and that is the capacity of OFF DUTY law enforcement officers to carry in certain gun free zones. Keep in mind, Tennessee's supreme court has said that OFF DUTY law enforcement are not some category of super citizen, they are simply citizens like everyone else They have the right to defend their lives and they have arrest powers (if they opt to use them) BUT citizens also have statutory arrest powers in Tennessee!

So, this bill says that those civilians who have the ENHANCED PERMIT would be entitled to the same exceptions relative to gun free zones as are OFF DUTY officers. The bill DOES NOT make citizens law enforcement officers, off duty officers or government officials. All it does is provide that if an off duty officer OFF DUTY can carry in a gun free zone then so can an enhanced permit holder.

This is just another example of the elitism of these law enforcement administrators - a mentality that says government officials and government agents are BETTER than other citizens even when they are off duty or in some instances retired.

This is a bill that requires a big push from the almost 750,000 permit holders in the state!

Also, if you have ever donated money to a sheriff, to the sheriff's association or the chiefs of police association or even the FOP --- STOP IT!!!! They don't support your constitutional rights even after taking an oath to do so. And, as legislators stated on the record last year in committee hearings - they have at least a 28 year history of fighting to keep you from exercising your 2nd Amendment rights in Tennessee.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Worriedman

[Worriedman]

Amendment filed this AM:
 

[Snaveba]

To me at least, that change in the language clears up the miss understanding. 
 

this may have already been answered, but currently, where can an off duty LEO carry that I can not carry with my ECP?

[chances R]

Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1315

Federal buildings will be off limits

Judicial proceedings

 

[Worriedman]

Past most signs.

[Defender]

With an allegedly conservative Governor and State legislature,, why cant we just "fix" our gun laws by just revamping it all instead of the hard as crap to understand piecemeal garbage we are plagued with right now?  Just trash everything on the books right now around the issue and write one comprehensive bill that includes HCP, Constitutional carry and everything else around guns and be done with it.  Sheesh!

[Worriedman]

5 hours ago, Defender said:

With an allegedly conservative Governor and State legislature,, why cant we just "fix" our gun laws by just revamping it all instead of the hard as crap to understand piecemeal garbage we are plagued with right now?  Just trash everything on the books right now around the issue and write one comprehensive bill that includes HCP, Constitutional carry and everything else around guns and be done with it.  Sheesh!

That is the question...the answer lies in the term allegedly, a few are really conservative, fewer of them pro gun rights. The power lies in the bureaucracy and they control the agencies and run the State, because, too many sit on their rear ends and do not contact their elected employees, or, fire them when needed.  Everybody keeps electing the same flecks of smegma because they bring the bacon home, Civil Rights be damned.  The masses want someone else's representative  gotten rid of, and will not work to remove their own.

In truth, lethargy and sloth are to blame.

[TN Native]

Watching the House subcommittee online today, I was reminded how these politicians love to hide behind “voice votes” where their names are not recorded with each vote. The system is designed to hide much of the process.

[Worriedman]

9 hours ago, TN Native said:

Watching the House subcommittee online today, I was reminded how these politicians love to hide behind “voice votes” where their names are not recorded with each vote. The system is designed to hide much of the process.

Absolutely, old Jimmy Naifeh tactic.  He taught the later Speakers well. No one holds them accountable, just stand around, jaw and watch their Rights erode...

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Worriedman

[300winmag]

What a lot of people do not realize is that this bill actually enhances the TN enhanced permit similar to the Mississippi enhanced permit where K-12 and college carry is legal.  You would be able to legally carry in places like colleges that right now you cannot carry in TN.

If you have an enhanced permit, you should be for this bill becoming law because it does expand where you can legally carry.  

I saw the amendment added to this bill and it looks like it was postponed to next week.  Does this bill or the GOA sign bill have a decent chance?

[Worriedman]

7 hours ago, 300winmag said:

What a lot of people do not realize is that this bill actually enhances the TN enhanced permit similar to the Mississippi enhanced permit where K-12 and college carry is legal.  You would be able to legally carry in places like colleges that right now you cannot carry in TN.

If you have an enhanced permit, you should be for this bill becoming law because it does expand where you can legally carry.  

I saw the amendment added to this bill and it looks like it was postponed to next week.  Does this bill or the GOA sign bill have a decent chance?

People are too lazy to call or get involved.  What they don't get is a lack of support for these bills this year, guarantees that nothing will 
EVER get changed.

Good job sluggards.

[No_0ne]

On 3/8/2022 at 10:08 AM, Defender said:

With an allegedly conservative Governor and State legislature,, why cant we just "fix" our gun laws by just revamping it all instead of the hard as crap to understand piecemeal garbage we are plagued with right now?  Just trash everything on the books right now around the issue and write one comprehensive bill that includes HCP, Constitutional carry and everything else around guns and be done with it.  Sheesh!

If laws were written in plain language, allowing just anybody to read and understand them, what would all the poor lawyers do to make a living ...

[Capbyrd]

3 hours ago, No_0ne said:

If laws were written in plain language, allowing just anybody to read and understand them, what would all the poor lawyers do to make a living ...

Structure is important in lawmaking.  And with the exception of a few legal terms that require minimal research to define, the majority of the code is relatively simple to decipher by anyone with a high school education (what should be the majority of our population).   The issue is more likely that no citizen is willing to pour over the thousands of pages to know the full law, nor should they be expected to. simplification of law should be a matter of necessity for common understanding based on quantity, not verbiage.  
 

 

As to Worriedman’s point about people not doing anything, people are busy.  I bet that the majority of people that would support this bill have no knowledge of it and if they do, it’s from a news source that misrepresents the bill.  It’s not that they are malicious, but the American way of life leaves little in modern times for mass activism.  You pick and choose what you can involve yourself in based on fitting around school and work and band practice and football games and shopping and karate and cheerleading and the plethora of other activities that families currently engage in.   When something has little to no impact on that person’s daily life, they simply don’t have the time for it, even if they support it.  Insulting these people won’t help.  Friendly requests and reminders will.  The majority of members of this board are part of the fringe group of gun owners.  We represent a tiny percentage.  And it’s prudent in our endeavors to remember such.  
 

 

 

[m16ty]

On 2/19/2022 at 6:51 AM, JustEd said:

Please don't ban me....but,

It makes some sort of sense in today's homeless, drug addict, snatch and grab world.  While I have no intention of policing the world, the more good honest citizens with guns spread about, the better.

So here is the part where I get banned:   "Would  be willing to get more training and further vetting for the privilege of carrying in the aforementioned prohibited areas."

Several years ago I had the local Sheriff offer me a "Special Deputy" badge if I completed the State mandated training. I think it was 80hrs initially and then 20hrs a year (or was it 40?). I never did follow though with it because I couldn't make time for the training, which was offered during the week in the middle of the day. If I could have taken the training at night or on weekends I would have probably done it. So the avenue is currently there if you have a favorable sheriff.  

They also offer a "reserve deputy" position at our local Sheriff's Office. You still have to do the State mandated training, but the County will pay for it. The only catch there is you have to volunteer (without pay) to work as a officer so many hours a month. I don't recall how many hours (it's not a lot) but you still have to do it.

[Worriedman]

On 3/10/2022 at 1:13 AM, Capbyrd said:

Structure is important in lawmaking.  And with the exception of a few legal terms that require minimal research to define, the majority of the code is relatively simple to decipher by anyone with a high school education (what should be the majority of our population).   The issue is more likely that no citizen is willing to pour over the thousands of pages to know the full law, nor should they be expected to. simplification of law should be a matter of necessity for common understanding based on quantity, not verbiage.  
 

 

As to Worriedman’s point about people not doing anything, people are busy.  I bet that the majority of people that would support this bill have no knowledge of it and if they do, it’s from a news source that misrepresents the bill.  It’s not that they are malicious, but the American way of life leaves little in modern times for mass activism.  You pick and choose what you can involve yourself in based on fitting around school and work and band practice and football games and shopping and karate and cheerleading and the plethora of other activities that families currently engage in.   When something has little to no impact on that person’s daily life, they simply don’t have the time for it, even if they support it.  Insulting these people won’t help.  Friendly requests and reminders will.  The majority of members of this board are part of the fringe group of gun owners.  We represent a tiny percentage.  And it’s prudent in our endeavors to remember such.  
 

 

 

You get to pick what is important, trying to move laws back to the promise of our Constitution I think is necessary.  I have spent the last 20 years of the majority of my yearly vacation at the General Assembly and spend a lot more time talking with my legislators, it has paid dividends for Tennessee, at no benefit of money for me, quite the reverse as I finance all my activities myself.

I do not mean to insult anyone, but I do know it takes action to move the ball.  Phone calls and e-mails take very little effort or cost, but have a huge benefit.

I get the busy part, grand daughter just signed with Chattanooga State to play volleyball.  many sets of tires for travel ball and her high school carrier, two time All State Libero.  But her future when I am gone is important too, and I choose to do all I can to leave her as well situated as I can Liberty wise. 

[Worriedman]

The Civil Justice Subcommittee has decided they will not hear the bill at all.  They will allow the sponsor to put it before the committee, so he can take credit for running it for re-election purposes, but take it off notice with no debate or testimony, that way they do not get convicted of voting against it, but yet they kill it.

[JustEd]

10 hours ago, m16ty said:

Several years ago I had the local Sheriff offer me a "Special Deputy" badge if I completed the State mandated training. I think it was 80hrs initially and then 20hrs a year (or was it 40?). I never did follow though with it because I couldn't make time for the training, which was offered during the week in the middle of the day. If I could have taken the training at night or on weekends I would have probably done it. So the avenue is currently there if you have a favorable sheriff.  

They also offer a "reserve deputy" position at our local Sheriff's Office. You still have to do the State mandated training, but the County will pay for it. The only catch there is you have to volunteer (without pay) to work as a officer so many hours a month. I don't recall how many hours (it's not a lot) but you still have to do it.

Win, Win in my book.  Have volunteered help for Sheriff when was back out west

[m16ty]

14 hours ago, JustEd said:

Win, Win in my book.  Have volunteered help for Sheriff when was back out west

I help out too, but just on a strictly volunteer basis. I with a group that volunteer to help them with things like fundraisers, drug take backs, some traffic control, and just anything they need help with, but we have zero police authority. 

I've been though 40 hours of training with that, including some force-on-force and driving, but it's just local and doesn't go toward any State mandated training.

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by m16ty

[Capbyrd]

On 3/16/2022 at 10:18 PM, Worriedman said:

You get to pick what is important, trying to move laws back to the promise of our Constitution I think is necessary.  I have spent the last 20 years of the majority of my yearly vacation at the General Assembly and spend a lot more time talking with my legislators, it has paid dividends for Tennessee, at no benefit of money for me, quite the reverse as I finance all my activities myself.

I do not mean to insult anyone, but I do know it takes action to move the ball.  Phone calls and e-mails take very little effort or cost, but have a huge benefit.

I get the busy part, grand daughter just signed with Chattanooga State to play volleyball.  many sets of tires for travel ball and her high school carrier, two time All State Libero.  But her future when I am gone is important too, and I choose to do all I can to leave her as well situated as I can Liberty wise. 

Again, not everyone prioritizes gun stuff the way that you do.   A few years ago there was a bill to allow motorcyclists to use the shoulder to get to the nearest exit during a traffic jam on the interstate.   It was a safety issue for us in several ways.  I emailed and called about that and did my best to drum up support from others in the area.   Did you do anything to help?   Likely not.   And that's fine.  It didn't work out.  Thats fine too.  Its part of the process.  But acting superior to everyone else because you chose to devote your free time to something is NEVER going to help your cause.   Instead of winning people over, you alienate them.   This is why I HATE the TFA and the NRA and all of the others that fear mongering and try to guilt me into action or giving them my money. 

[Garufa]

On 3/16/2022 at 11:18 PM, Worriedman said:

I have spent the last 20 years of the majority of my yearly vacation at the General Assembly and spend a lot more time talking with my legislators, it has paid dividends for Tennessee, at no benefit of money for me, quite the reverse as I finance all my activities myself.

 

4 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

Again, not everyone prioritizes gun stuff the way that you do.   A few years ago there was a bill to allow motorcyclists to use the shoulder to get to the nearest exit during a traffic jam on the interstate.   It was a safety issue for us in several ways.  I emailed and called about that and did my best to drum up support from others in the area.   Did you do anything to help?   Likely not.   And that's fine.  It didn't work out.  Thats fine too.  Its part of the process.  But acting superior to everyone else because you chose to devote your free time to something is NEVER going to help your cause.   Instead of winning people over, you alienate them.   This is why I HATE the TFA and the NRA and all of the others that fear mongering and try to guilt me into action or giving them my money. 

Cut the man some slack @Capbyrd.  

Have you spent as much time and effort on a cause that might have actually helped advance gun rights?

[45guy]

On 2/19/2022 at 7:53 AM, Darrell said:

While I acknowledge that there are bad apples in LE, as in ANY trade or profession, I continue to respect those who take on the dangerous and necessary job.  Personally, I have never had a bad experience with any cop. Even when I've been pulled over and ticketed, I realized that the cops were doing their jobs and I brought those tickets onto myself by my own choice to speed. LE is a job that I sure wouldn't want to take on, but I am eternally grateful for the GOOD men and women who choose to do it.

I agree, but most professions do not have the ability to severly change other peoples lives.  Now that everyone has cameras on them the videos of cops lying or demanding others to do as they say regardless seem to show up more and more.  They either do not know the law or lie hoping others do not know their rights or laws.  Years ago a friend of mine were sitting in a park doing nothing illegal.  Cops pulled up and wanted id's from us both.  We did not know any better so we gave it to them after me shooting holes in there reasons for even approaching us.  The cop brought our id's back and threw them in the window.  Not the end of the world but far less than professional.  There are tons of videos of cops demanding id without cause.  I think cops should not be allowed to lie to the public they are supposed to serve.  You and I lie to a cop they take it personnal they lie to you and me no big deal.

[Worriedman]

9 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

Again, not everyone prioritizes gun stuff the way that you do.   A few years ago there was a bill to allow motorcyclists to use the shoulder to get to the nearest exit during a traffic jam on the interstate.   It was a safety issue for us in several ways.  I emailed and called about that and did my best to drum up support from others in the area.   Did you do anything to help?   Likely not.   And that's fine.  It didn't work out.  Thats fine too.  Its part of the process.  But acting superior to everyone else because you chose to devote your free time to something is NEVER going to help your cause.   Instead of winning people over, you alienate them.   This is why I HATE the TFA and the NRA and all of the others that fear mongering and try to guilt me into action or giving them my money. 

Actually I did, had a friend that worked that bill, a biker that walked with a cane and he also was there every year on the helmet bill.  You meet a lot of good people advocating for issues and you help those who are passionate and doing it on their own dime.

I got legislators to sign on to his bills. I think his name was Tony, have not seen him the last couple of years.  The GA treated him the same way they do me.

I do not ask for your money for me, I don't take dime for my efforts, TFA is not the NRA, no salaries for Directors or Board members.  You have a permit because of volunteers that worked to get it done.  You have Civil Immunity because someone kept hammering till we got it done.

I don't care if you hate me, I am not laboring for profit or accolades.  Most Liberals hate me too...

Edited April 8, 2022 by Worriedman

[Worriedman]

20 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

Again, not everyone prioritizes gun stuff the way that you do.   A few years ago there was a bill to allow motorcyclists to use the shoulder to get to the nearest exit during a traffic jam on the interstate.   It was a safety issue for us in several ways.  I emailed and called about that and did my best to drum up support from others in the area.   Did you do anything to help?   Likely not.   And that's fine.  It didn't work out.  Thats fine too.  Its part of the process.  But acting superior to everyone else because you chose to devote your free time to something is NEVER going to help your cause.   Instead of winning people over, you alienate them.   This is why I HATE the TFA and the NRA and all of the others that fear mongering and try to guilt me into action or giving them my money. 

His name was Tony Dabs, and if you were involved at the Legislature on motorcycle issues you will know him.  I fear he is either sick or has passed away, because I did not see him this year or last,  but, I helped carry his petitions and can provide proof of that, as Jay Reedy carried his bills and he will vouch that I helped advocate for the shoulder and helmet bills he was pushing.

[Capbyrd]

16 hours ago, Garufa said:

 

Cut the man some slack @Capbyrd.  

Have you spent as much time and effort on a cause that might have actually helped advance gun rights?

the thing is, I feel like I’m being attacked because I’m using my vacation time to walk around Nashville getting chummy with the criminals.  I’m reading some of these posts as someone trying to claim moral superiority over others and talking down to those people.   If I’m wrong, I’m sorry.  But that’s the way these posts are reading.   And no, I haven’t spent as much time as him.   I’m not as old and haven’t been interested as long.   But since I have, I do what I can.   I email and call and try to get others to do the same.  I inform of them important bills and request they email or call and spread the word.   But I certainly don’t talk down to anyone that says they can’t or question their priorities.

 

11 hours ago, Worriedman said:

Actually I did, had a friend that worked that bill, a biker that walked with a cane and he also was there every year on the helmet bill.  You meet a lot of good people advocating for issues and you help those who are passionate and doing it on their own dime.

I got legislators to sign on to his bills. I think his name was Tony, have not seen him the last couple of years.  The GA treated him the same way they do me.

I do not ask for your money for me, I don't take dime for my efforts, TFA is not the NRA, no salaries for Directors or Board members.  You have a permit because of volunteers that worked to get it done.  You have Civil Immunity because someone kept hammering till we got it done.

I don't care if you hate me, I am not laboring for profit or accolades.  Most Liberals hate me too...

That’s great.   And to be clear, I never said I hate you.  I said that I hate organizations that use fear mongering and guilt trips to get dollars out of people.  You are an individual.  I am able to separate the two entities.  

[Worriedman]

23 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

the thing is, I feel like I’m being attacked because I’m using my vacation time to walk around Nashville getting chummy with the criminals.  I’m reading some of these posts as someone trying to claim moral superiority over others and talking down to those people.   If I’m wrong, I’m sorry.  But that’s the way these posts are reading.   And no, I haven’t spent as much time as him.   I’m not as old and haven’t been interested as long.   But since I have, I do what I can.   I email and call and try to get others to do the same.  I inform of them important bills and request they email or call and spread the word.   But I certainly don’t talk down to anyone that says they can’t or question their priorities.

 

That’s great.   And to be clear, I never said I hate you.  I said that I hate organizations that use fear mongering and guilt trips to get dollars out of people.  You are an individual.  I am able to separate the two entities.  

I see the need to work as necessary, I advocate for a lot of other things besides firearms issues, one especially important is Asset Forfeiture, or legalized police theft.

This is a firearms forum though, and one would think the main topic would be legislation related to that subject.  If I make statements that when that legislation is before the committees and the full House or Senate and there are rows upon rows of Moms Demand Action red shirts in the halls and committee rooms, that is just reporting.   I am trying to claim no high ground, simply trying to get help for issues that are important to us all.  I try to lead by example, forging relationships with legislators who hold sway over our lives.  I never ask anyone to do anything I am not doing, of my own volition, on my own time and my own dime.  

There are members here who ask me to keep the board updated, and if I get frustrated to be the only person on watch at the General Assembly, I make no apology for that.  I write legislation and try to get cosponsors to help.  The hours it takes to study the law and reach our to legislators takes away from family.  I have a 49 year old invalid daughter that is bed bound, and I am her primary care giver, a wife who had a kidney transplant 17 years ago who was on dialysis for 10 years before that who is not in good health.  What I do at the legislature  is not a job, it is an avocation, it has nearly cost me my real job and the reason I use my vacation is that my employer gives me no choice, I am not allowed to participate in politics on his time, and so I am forced to spend that time I could be with family or hunting or something pleasurable.

I don't know who you are, and have never had a single thing to say about you, but I resent your implication that I hold some "holier than thou" opinion of myself,  You certainly do not know me.  I try to live by the Sam Adams "It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" gambit, and if you are insulted that I try to stir up others to join me in the quest, so be it, I could give a rats rear end.

If it is the will of this forum that I cease and desist  of my efforts here, that can be arranged too.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Worriedman