I-65 Shooting

[AuEagle]

It's a real shame that less lethal force couldn't have been used.

[chances R]

7 hours ago, AuEagle said:

It's a real shame that less lethal force couldn't have been used.

Bad guy controlled the response.  I'm glad all officers got to go home.  The law breakers need to obey the officers' commands in just about all of these shootings.

[RED333]

8 hours ago, AuEagle said:

It's a real shame that less lethal force couldn't have been used.

From what I understamd is the tasers the MNPD have are only good for about 10 feet. Way to close when someone has a knife one hand and their other hand in their pocket. Less lethal shot gun rounds does not always stop someone from doing more harm, again LEO did not know what was in the mans pocket.

[Grayfox54]

I'm no expert, but were the officers too far away for a taser?  I think less lethal should have been tried, but I'm not sure it was possible. 

However, when the suspect made that sudden move which looked like aiming a weapon at police, I think shooting was the right call. IMHO this was a clear case of suicide by cop. I believe the suspect knew exactly what he was doing and got the result he wanted. 

[bobsguns]

18 hours ago, Sunfish said:

Funny how family's kick people to the curb until something happens to them. 

Ever lived with a truly mentally unbalanced person? They make the lives of everyone around them pure hell. 

Just because someone gets kicked out of a house doesn't mean the family quits caring for them. The family has to put the health of the family ahead of a single individual, especially when there's kids involved. 

Your comment was in extremely poor taste, IMO. 

[bobsguns]

18 hours ago, AuEagle said:

It's a real shame that less lethal force couldn't have been used.

It could have, it just wasn't for some odd reason. 

This would've been a perfect place for one of those devices that shoot a net over someone. I've seen them in police supply magazines but I honestly have no clue about how well they work. 

Hell, even a football gang tackle of everyone at once would've worked. However, I wouldn't have wanted to be the one getting stabbed doing that.  

[bobsguns]

11 hours ago, chances R said:

Bad guy controlled the response.  I'm glad all officers got to go home.  The law breakers need to obey the officers' commands in just about all of these shootings.

The guy was neither "bad" nor a "law breaker." He was mentally unbalanced, a huge, huge difference. Those types of people see aberrant behavior as being normal or correct, something normal folks (including me) just can't comprehend. I have a cousin whom is strongly bi-polar, his behavior is extremely odd a lot of times. Thankfully, he's not violent.

People whom expect lay people to know how to deal with mentally ill people are wholly wrong. It's virtually impossible to do that.

[bobsguns]

9 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

I'm no expert, but were the officers too far away for a taser? 

Experts are saying with his winter coat on, they had no where for the prongs to get hold of.

Another report says he was walking out into traffic, trying to get run over. So yes, he was looking for the cops to end his misery. Sadly, it went as he wanted it to. 

I just hope he's at peace somehow now.

[Grunt67]

Traffic was stopped. He'd have to wait a while to get run over. Reporters need to stick to reporting,  rather than try to tell what a mentally ill man was thinking.

[chances R]

the mental health help needed to start way before he got in the road.  One has to deal with what is immediately in front of him, regardless of the mental history.  Asking officers to go hands on is easy unless you are the one going into the unknown.  

[Alleycat72]

https://youtu.be/g93eNydmnLE

Just watch the number of less than lethal wepons use against this guy

[bersaguy]

With all the police officers being killed these days, being shot in what should be  a routine traffic stop that turns deadly for an officer. I can't find fault with officers being overly cautious for anything that seems out of the ordinary and you have to admit this was not ordinary. The guy was not being cooperative at all and was even acting suspicious. i say it was a justified shoot....JMHO

[Ironhandjohn]

A blast of pepper spray and a right hook could have ended it quickly and with everyone living though the situation. Instead, the guy goes to the morgue in a rubber bag, MNPD gets yet another PR black eye, the THP shrug it off because they don’t care about their image, as long as people are afraid of them, and an off-duty cop who had no reason to get involved wishes he’d have kept driving with his family in the car. 

[bobsguns]

10 hours ago, Grunt67 said:

Traffic was stopped. He'd have to wait a while to get run over. Reporters need to stick to reporting,  rather than try to tell what a mentally ill man was thinking.

I think they were talking about before the THP officer got there.

[bobsguns]

9 hours ago, Alleycat72 said:

https://youtu.be/g93eNydmnLE

Just watch the number of less than lethal wepons use against this guy

Ehhhh, the bean bags weren't too potent, IMO. The water cannon looked fun though. LOL! Water pressure isn't something one can just blow off. (Pardon my pun) I've fooled around with a 2" hose off of a fire hydrant. I saw it lift a guy right off the ground as he tried to hold onto the squirting end. 

No one asked me, but I still think a net would work nicely on anyone holding something less than a firearm of some sort. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by bobsguns

[bobsguns]

8 hours ago, bersaguy said:

With all the police officers being killed these days, being shot in what should be  a routine traffic stop that turns deadly for an officer. I can't find fault with officers being overly cautious for anything that seems out of the ordinary and you have to admit this was not ordinary.

If they were "acting cautious", why weren't they behind cover, i.e. their cars? Standing right out in the open like that is not MY idea of "cautious". YMMV.

[Sunfish]

19 hours ago, bobsguns said:

Ever lived with a truly mentally unbalanced person? They make the lives of everyone around them pure hell. 

Just because someone gets kicked out of a house doesn't mean the family quits caring for them. The family has to put the health of the family ahead of a single individual, especially when there's kids involved. 

Your comment was in extremely poor taste, IMO. 

This became about $ as soon as they hired an Attorney. Time will tell where their heart is and what's important.

[bobsguns]

3 hours ago, Sunfish said:

This became about $ as soon as they hired an Attorney. Time will tell where their heart is and what's important.

Who paid for his funeral? That's possibly $10K right there.

Who's paying the bills? Did the guy work? I don't know if he did or the widow worked to support the family. If he worked, now what? Does she go on food stamps now? Who buys the kids' clothes now? 

What widow wouldn't listen if some lawyer told her, "Hey, I can get you some $$$ to help with your bills." She'd be crazy not to at least listen, IMO. Doesn't mean she'll get a penny either. 

Spend some time in her shoes before you condemn her.

[pop pop]

IMO, Metro will pay her in the end. Whether she deserves it or not, who knows.  Heard on the news she had called Metro, that morning, because he was having an episode at her home. News, very often, is not factual.   

Guys we don't know the true details of this, and probably never will. They guy had a box cutter, so the police practice the "Tuller Drill" for their own safety. The drill, "one can travel 21 ft before you can complete a draw and protect yourself." So they had distance from an armed mentally ill person which was the proper thing to do. Right or wrong way to handle that situation, who knows? I heard the story on National News a couple days ago.  They showed the standoff footage of course.  Another black eye for the cops, which IMO, they do not deserve. 

I am for "law and order" guys. This is not the prevailing opinion most times now of days. Police have their hands tied now. Danged,  if they do, danged if they don't.

The wife wanted the Police to keep the guy away from her, because she admitted she called them on several occasions, but "now" didn't want him killed!!!!!! There in lies the "dilemma!"   Deadly force will "sometimes" bring deadly force situations, "Worst case scenario." 

Feel sorry for his parents. 

[Omega]

59 minutes ago, bobsguns said:

Who paid for his funeral? That's possibly $10K right there.

Who's paying the bills? Did the guy work? I don't know if he did or the widow worked to support the family. If he worked, now what? Does she go on food stamps now? Who buys the kids' clothes now? 

What widow wouldn't listen if some lawyer told her, "Hey, I can get you some $$$ to help with your bills." She'd be crazy not to at least listen, IMO. Doesn't mean she'll get a penny either. 

Spend some time in her shoes before you condemn her.

Lawyers just want to get their cut, and many succeed even if they don't have much of a case because for the agency it is cheaper to pay them off most times.  Who is responsible for paying the bills?  Why should it be us, the tax payer, that has to worry about it?  Nobody will give a damn who pays my bills when I go, and dang sure nobody will be lining up to cover any legal bills that a LEO will stack up when they get charged, as a matter of fact, go fund me will actively block such attempts.  

[bobsguns]

1 hour ago, pop pop said:

 News, very often, is not factual.   

 

My shocked face:  

[Hozzie]

Every one of you that have the answer to what they should have done should go sign up to to be a cop.  

[bobsguns]

8 minutes ago, Hozzie said:

Every one of you that have the answer to what they should have done should go sign up to to be a cop.  

Many of us have answers for a lot of issues. Doesn't mean we can or will "rush right out to sign up" to be a doctor, lawyer, cop or Judge. I read on another forum a cop describing his training. He said they were taught as soon as they saw or heard the word "gun", they should fire at the suspect regardless of the circumstances. He said he argued with the instructors over this but they refused to budge from it. His comments were in a thread about a Colorado cop shooting/killing another cop in the victim's own home because "he saw a gun". 

A guy I know who used to be a cop in Colorado went back out there 2 years ago for the funeral of a cop who got killed by another cop while on a burglary call. The shooter & victim were on opposite sides of some sort of fence (privacy?) & the cop shot his fellow LEO in the head, killing him instantly. WTF ever happened to "Stop! Police!" BEFORE firing at an unknown target??? The victim was a groomsman in my buddy's wedding & he was pretty upset about it. 

I still fail to understand why they didn't remain behind their cars, under some cover? The guy sure as heck wasn't going anywhere. Vehicle cover at least would allow an officer precious extra seconds to go through his shoot/no-shoot checklist. 

Regardless of what current LEO's think of this incident, it seems the overwhelmingly % of laymen believe too many cops are trigger happy. As a USMC vet, competition shooter, HCP holder who carries every day & a participant in a shooting myself, I have to agree. YMMV.

[Hozzie]

11 minutes ago, bobsguns said:

Many of us have answers for a lot of issues.

Easy to armchair quarterback when there are no repercussions to you personally.

I am not a cop, but have worked with hundreds of police agencies from around the world.  Everywhere is different, but one thing is for certain.  There will always be someone who can tell you how to do your job better when they have never done it.

I think of this video every time these discussion come up.

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Hozzie

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, Hozzie said:

Every one of you that have the answer to what they should have done should go sign up to to be a cop.  

I will always call BS on this type of response. The question is simple, do you think the public has a right to determine how they want to be policed? 
 

If you believe the purpose of police is to enforce the laws set by the elite who control the government then the answer would be no. If you believe that the purpose of police is to act in the public good and for the benefit of the public, then the answer would be yes.

While the rank and file officer on the street has some level of discretion within how they act, they do not set departmental policy and procedure. That is a political equation. The pressures on those who make those rules to change are made by the public.

So to anyone who agrees or disagrees with the actions taken here, the answer isn’t to go sign up to do the job yourself, especially for people like myself who I know are il-suited to do the job. The answer is to high pressure to those who set policy and do the training for those officers. That includes those with the checkbooks who can fund better training.