TWRA open fields case

[MacGyver]

I thought we had another thread tracking this case, but the TWRA’s motion to dismiss this case was denied today, meaning it will proceed to discovery:

https://ij.org/press-release/tennessee-property-owners-score-early-win-in-lawsuit-against-warrantless-trespassing-surveillance-on-private-land/

[Alleycat72]

Good

[Chucktshoes]

This is excellent news. 
 

I think the old thread got nuked with the rest of /pol/.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Chucktshoes

[RodMyers]

thanks for the link.

I'm not familiar with this incident 

Not sure why the TWRA would trespass in the first place.  What was their goal and/or purpose

[peejman]

2 hours ago, RodMyers said:

thanks for the link.

I'm not familiar with this incident 

Not sure why the TWRA would trespass in the first place.  What was their goal and/or purpose

To catch people doing something wrong. 

[RodMyers]

22 minutes ago, peejman said:

To catch people doing something wrong. 

not a good thing.

glad the lawsuit is moving forward then

 

[Alleycat72]

No different than waking out into a Target parking lot and having a police officer searching every car in the lot just because. Oh,... and putting hidden cameras all over them....you know....just incase. 

Walmart doesn't care until they hit the Walmart parking lot. 

[chances R]

I recall reading that a similar case was heard by the Supreme court which upheld the current 'open field doctrine'.

[Chucktshoes]

26 minutes ago, chances R said:

I recall reading that a similar case was heard by the Supreme court which upheld the current 'open field doctrine'.

That is correct. The issue at hand though is that the Tennessee state constitution is more restrictive on that front.

[E4 No More]

When I went through the police academy, (in Missouri in 1989), we were taught that anything outside of the curtilage, (the land that was mowed) was fair game for whatever police activity we wanted to conduct although I never had need to do anything concerning it as a police officer in a suburb of Kansas City. Today, I have mixed feelings about it - probably because I now own acreage in the country. I do think that TWRA needs a judicial knot jerked in their power tail, but I also have problems with people poaching or doing other things outside of the hunting laws that we have.

[No_0ne]

I would think some well-placed rifle shots through the cameras would solve this problem ...

[Omega]

55 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

When I went through the police academy, (in Missouri in 1989), we were taught that anything outside of the curtilage, (the land that was mowed) was fair game for whatever police activity we wanted to conduct although I never had need to do anything concerning it as a police officer in a suburb of Kansas City. Today, I have mixed feelings about it - probably because I now own acreage in the country. I do think that TWRA needs a judicial knot jerked in their power tail, but I also have problems with people poaching or doing other things outside of the hunting laws that we have.

As I stated before if they want to catch poachers, then being more proactive when they receive reports would be a start.  But if it is the land owner they suspect, then look for probable cause and get a warrant, if it is not the land owner, ask for permission.  If asked I would gladly let them get poachers off my land, if they suspected me, again, ask I would gladly let you come take a look.  

23 minutes ago, No_0ne said:

I would think some well-placed rifle shots through the cameras would solve this problem ...

I think something similar is what got this started, they arrested the landowner for destruction, or stealing the cameras, on his land.

[derf]

If you let a camel put his nose in your tent, you will soon have a camel in your tent. We have given government so much power they are now creating their own power. The constitution is the most powerful document ever written and it must be preserved. It seems every day we give some of it away or it is simply walked on. It’s your land, post it and allow who you want on it. Period! 

[Alleycat72]

57 minutes ago, Omega said:

As I stated before if they want to catch poachers, then being more proactive when they receive reports would be a start.  But if it is the land owner they suspect, then look for probable cause and get a warrant, if it is not the land owner, ask for permission.  If asked I would gladly let them get poachers off my land, if they suspected me, again, ask I would gladly let you come take a look.  

I think something similar is what got this started, they arrested the landowner for destruction, or stealing the cameras, on his land.

Just get a warrant.

They will just pull over on a random person's property and look around. They did get told that they couldn't take card readers with them. Guys were tempted to look at you game camera footage and delete any pictures of themselves. 

I argued with my game warden buddy about this. He told me I was trying to make his job harder. I told him that his job should be hard, but I hope he gets the bad guys. 

[bobsguns]

7 hours ago, chances R said:

I recall reading that a similar case was heard by the Supreme court which upheld the current 'open field doctrine'.

*I* would interpret that as a "visual search" by the naked eye, not cameras. 

The TWRA has long been too big for their britches, IMO. Does anyone remember when they built some sort of small dam/retaining wall in West TN to block water for someone's duck hunting desires? They got taken to court, found they violated some sort of wetlands laws & got told to rip that thing out yesterday. Then it all got hushed up REAL fast. I never heard if they ripped it out or not? Nor what happened to those who approved the project in the first place.

Edited January 27, 2022 by bobsguns

[bobsguns]

7 hours ago, E4 No More said:

I do think that TWRA needs a judicial knot jerked in their power tail, but I also have problems with people poaching or doing other things outside of the hunting laws that we have.

TWRA can & does enforce game laws on private property. But putting up cameras & walking around private property w/o a warrant is a BIG no-no in my rule book. 

For the record, I don't hunt nor fish, I just shoot. 

[bobsguns]

6 hours ago, Omega said:

I think something similar is what got this started, they arrested the landowner for destruction, or stealing the cameras, on his land.

His land = his property, IMO. Screw them.

[Worriedman]

Open fields means if they can see it from the air, they can police it any way they want to.

If the TWRA has probable cause, get a warrant.

[peejman]

Good news.... 

https://www.wbbjtv.com/2022/03/23/court-rules-twra-violated-rights-of-benton-county-landowners/

[TN Native]

5 minutes ago, peejman said:

Good news.... 

https://www.wbbjtv.com/2022/03/23/court-rules-twra-violated-rights-of-benton-county-landowners/

This result is definitely a good start. No doubt, TWRA will appeal, but it is helpful that the trial court ruled in favor of the landowners. 

[BigSatt]

On 1/26/2022 at 6:48 PM, bobsguns said:

His land = his property, IMO. Screw them.

Yep!!