Smith & Wesson Quoting 6-8 Week Repair of a Factory Defect on Brand New Gun

[Fourtyfive]

Great read, how did I miss this?

[Calexiter]

On 2/23/2022 at 6:28 PM, bobsguns said:

Then terminate my membership immediately. Per my request.

I refuse to socialize with a bunch of people whom have no sense of humor what so ever. Kick me out as of yesterday.

Thank God, (and Dave)  This dude was a total clown show . He had Google knowledge on everything. Im sure hes probably off curing Cancer since he has more free time now!

[papa61]

On 2/23/2022 at 8:54 AM, gun sane said:

This conversation almost makes me afraid to admit that I often rely upon a Taurus TCP.  

I ain't skeered, I sometimes carry a PT945. And the trigger pull is great.

[Grayfox54]

The thread that wouldn't die! 

[TGO David]

Well, allow me to introduce my anus-free M&P.  I've named him Bob.  Bob Gun. 

He started off with a whole lot of derp, but I think he's going to be OK.

 

 

[Ironhandjohn]

6 hours ago, TGO David said:

Well, allow me to introduce my anus-free M&P.  I've named him Bob.  Bob Gun. 

He started off with a whole lot of derp, but I think he's going to be OK.

 

 

[Moped]

14 hours ago, TGO David said:

Well, allow me to introduce my anus-free M&P.  I've named him Bob.  Bob Gun. 

He started off with a whole lot of derp, but I think he's going to be OK.

 

 

Is this going to be your carry gun or just a range gun?

[TGO David]

2 minutes ago, Moped said:

Is this going to be your carry gun or just a range gun?

No idea, really.  I haven't shot the first round through it yet.  If it performs well and the optics mounting system holds up, I'll probably sneak it into my carry rotation.  The M&P has always agreed with me when I shoot them, so anything is possible.

 

[gregintenn]

What? No bayonet?

[peejman]

7 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

What? No bayonet?

Because everything is better with a bayonet. Even a light saber.... 

 

[johnwilliams5721]

On 2/19/2022 at 10:00 AM, johnwilliams5721 said:

I'm late to this thread, but I'll pile on since we're truth telling on S&W. Sorry to hear I'm not the only one having S&W problems, David.

I bought a Shield Plus in July. It has a problem with the slide stop getting stuck in the upright position which makes it a bear to get the slide to drop forward. Not exactly a feature valued in a carry pistol. I sent it back in the Fall and received it back around Thanksgiving. They had done nothing to the pistol. Despite the polite CS lady jotting down what was wrong with it and the required letter describing the problem enclosed with the pistol, the technician misconstrued the problem as the slide refusing to lock back according to the bill of work that came back with the pistol (the exact opposite of the problem). I called back and the CS fellow I spoke with seemed annoyed at first. It took some back and forth for him to understand the problem. It's been back in S&W's hands since the beginning of the month. Some of the time taken is my fault. I had some life drama and didn't take it to the range right away where I discovered the issue. Then I waited again over Christmas so FedEx didn't lose the pistol in a ravine outside of Memphis with the Christmas package rush. But the bottom line is this pistol should have never left the factory in this condition.

This was supposed to be an upgrade over my Shield V1 as my EDC, but it's fate is in limbo currently and not looking good. For a $700 pistol, my expectations have not been met.  

The Shield Plus had made it onto a coworkers short list for his next purchase, but he smartly delayed purchasing during this drama. After mine came back still malfunctioning, he crossed it off his list entirely and bought a Sig ... which had a problem of its own. Can't win for losing.

My Shield Plus is back from its second trip back to the factory for the same issue. They replaced the barrel locking block. But the problem persists. 

I did some debugging on my own. I swapped the slides between my Shield Plus and my Shield V1. The Shield V1 frame worked fine with the Shield Plus slide. The Shield Plus frame failed with the Shield V1 slide. The problem followed the frame. When holding both frames side by side so that the slide stops are visible, the slide stop on the Shield Plus is noticeably different. The tip of the Shield Plus's slide stop is not rounded like on the Shield V1 but instead has a slight hook that digs into the slide rather than merely stopping it. The problem and solution seems obvious to me: replace the slide stop with an in-spec part.

Lots of videos on YouTube demonstrate filing down the slide stop to solve the problem. I had this silly expectation that a new-in-box pistol bought at a retail store would function. I also had the silly expectation that if it failed to function then its maker would fix it. If I'm buying kit guns that need to be finished, I'll stick with KelTec. At least with KelTec I'll end up with something a little more unique and noteworthy fixing the gun. 

[Snaveba]

Hmmm. This reminds me of an issue that the 365XL was having when it first came out, but it had to do with the disconnector. The shape of the part in the early 365xls was more angular and it caused it to be difficult to rack the slide. 

I ended up replacing the disconnector with a P365 disconnector and the gun worked much better. I suppose SIG fixed this later. 
 

 

[Sleep profit]

Question on the 365xl have you found a owb holster that works. Mine came with a sig holster I didn’t like it  thanks

[Snaveba]

I have not because I have not looked. I have several IWB holsters I use

[Sleep profit]

10 minutes ago, Snaveba said:

I have not because I have not looked. I have several IWB holsters I use

Ok thanks I have looked online theirs not a lot yet  may go with craft leather holster 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Sleep profit

[gregintenn]

Bump for RC3!

[jimmylogan]

Glad you got this worked out!!!

My EDC is a .40 Shield version 1 - have had  no problems - even put an MCARBO trigger spring kit in it and polished the 'innards' - no complaints!

I've had my eye on a Plus for a while, for the extra capacity and the flat trigger - but now the 30 Super Carry with the optic slide has me intrigued - just haven't seen one in the wild...

[Magiccarpetrides]

Lmao...just checked this thread out after the "FOR SALE" post.  Wow...it amazes me how some people make it so far in life dealing out insults "jokes" left and right but as soon as the tables turned they cry foul...what a baby.  

[E4 No More]

On 2/23/2022 at 12:42 PM, TGO David said:

 

Bob, I want to start by thanking you for increasing my enjoyment of this M&P.  Seriously.  You've made owning this one even better than I could have imagined.  Being totally frank with you, that is probably the only thing you've increased the enjoyment of around here.

This isn't my first M&P nor is it the only one in my house.  I think we have about seven of them right now between my wife and myself, and except for this issue of cross-threaded optics mounting screws, none of them have caused me any trouble.  We have put actual thousands of rounds through them in a variety of high round-count defensive pistol classes over the past 14-years, in the mud, in the heat, in the rain and bone dry.  They've always just worked and always had more than acceptable accuracy. 

(This is the anus at the end of the VP9.  It's not the anus at the end of the gun that you might have thought I was referring to.)

I dunno. It doesn't look like an anus to me. From this angle it looks like a center ready to snap the football to the quarterback.

[E4 No More]

On 2/23/2022 at 8:54 AM, gun sane said:

This conversation almost makes me afraid to admit that I often rely upon a Taurus TCP.  

Heck, I carry my Taurus Slim 9 more than any other pistol. Can't beat throwing it in a pocket holster in the back pocket.

[Coach]

On 1/9/2022 at 5:06 PM, TGO David said:

 

This is my new Smith & Wesson M&P M2.0 Optics Ready handgun.  I ordered it right after Christmas and picked it up on Thursday, January 7th, 2022.  Any day that you get a new firearm is a good day!  Or so we've always thought.

The trigger on the new model is honestly pretty great.  It resolves many of the gripes that people have had about the M&P trigger in the past.  They have done away with the hinged design and moved to a flat-faced polymer trigger with an integral safety "blade" much like a Glock has.  I supposed that Glock's patent on this has expired since everyone else is producing clones of the Glock based on the Gen 3 and Gen 4 designs.  So, it was nice to see that Smith & Wesson has done away with the goofy hinged trigger.

Trigger reset is pretty good, also.  It still is not quite as crisp and snappy as that of a Glock but, honestly, I don't get wrapped around the axle about trigger reset.  As long as it's there and does its job, that is what matters. 

If you are shooting the gun in a class setting or, God forbid, in an active situation where someone's life is on the line, you really aren't going to notice the tactile reset anyway.  Just my opinion, perhaps, but I obsess over minutia and cannot find a single recorded case of a police officer or other stating that they remember how the trigger reset felt in that kind of situation.  Most folks don't even accurately remember how many rounds they fired, so expecting them to wax poetically about how the trigger felt under stress is just stupid.

But I digress.  The point of this post is not to write a love poem about triggers. 

No, the point is darker and less happy than that.

 

 

This is my brand-new M&P a few seconds after I attempted to remove the Allen screws that hold the factory polymer blanking plate from the optics cradle on the slide.

As you can see, the screw on the ejection-port side of the slide has stripped completely out.  This was with moderate torque and using a quality Wiha-brand Allen key to remove it.  The screw felt as if it were either coated with thread-locking compound or, worse, cross threaded and then driven home by some ape at the Smith & Wesson assembly line.

I was furious.  Immensely so.  But not as furious as I was after calling Smith & Wesson and asking them how I could return it to them for some help.

 

 

 

 

This is my reaction after calling Smith & Wesson and learning that they would require SIX TO EIGHT WEEKS to service it.

You read that right.  It will ship this back to them via FedEx 2-Day Air after which time it will take approximately two months for it to sit in their service queue, after which time they will look at it, do something about the problem, and then return it to me.  And hopefully in the condition it should have been from the beginning.

I understand that manufacturing problems happen, but service after the sale is where the rubber really meets the road and Smith & Wesson need to step up their game.  I would recommend that they start by reducing the wait time for service.  A target of 1-2 weeks round-trip seems like a reasonable target to me.

This isn't a $600 television or some other consumer good that could be returned to the store where it was purchased for an exchange or a refund.  The only option is to send it back to the manufacturer and, ideally, receive it back quickly with all problems resolved.

I am lucky.  I have other guns to carry.  But can you imagine being someone who doesn't have those options and who can't afford to roll the dice on a $600 gamble that their new gun is going to function properly? 

That person would be screwed.

 

 

 

Anyway, being mechanically inclined I asked Smith & Wesson if I could have a local gunsmith remove the screw, or do it myself, without voiding the warranty.  They said YES!  So, off I went in search of an appropriately small screw extractor. 

A few harrowing moments later, the screw was successfully removed!  Success!!!  Rejoicing!!! 

 

 

But... not so fast.

 

This is my brand-new M&P with the new screw sheared off into the slide.

Yep.  As I began to thread it into the slide, using barely any torque or force at all, it met resistance.  I stopped immediately and began to slowly reverse direction.

And it snapped.  Right where the head of the screw met the slide.

 

 

I am not sure how I resisted the urge to just throw the whole damned thing through the nearest wall but, somehow, I did.

I suppose it was the rapidly shrinking rational portion of my brain that somehow managed to squeak out the thought, "Hey... don't throw it through the wall.  If you do that, you can't return it to the factory."

Actually, my response was one of complete numbness.  Disbelief.  It short-circuited my brain.  I could only stare at it in silent rage.

 

 

So, all of this being said, I am very confident that the original screw was cross threaded during initial assembly at Smith & Wesson  This is now their problem to fix.  I am returning the whole gun to them and suppose that I might see it sometime in March or April.  And that thought infuriates me like no other.

 

Would I recommend an M&P to anyone at this point?   Not on your life.  Check back with me in two months and I'll let you know if my opinion has changed any.

 

 

History of Updates

1. January 12, 2022 -- Smith  & Wesson received the gun for repair.

2. January 18, 2022 -- Smith & Wesson emailed to provide an RMA case number.

3. January 24, 2022 -- Officially one week since the gun was logged into the RMA system.  Twelve Days since it arrived at S&W.  No news.  No updates.

4. February 15, 2022 -- Officially four weeks have elapsed.  I called today and checked on things.  They hope to be working on it within the next two weeks.

5. February 17, 2022 -- Completely by surprise, S&W sent me a FedEx tracking number today showing that my M&P is coming home.  No idea what they've done to it.  Stay tuned!

6. February 21, 2022 -- It's back home!  They replaced the slide and all seems to be well.  They undercut their return-time estimate by a full three weeks.

 

 

Wow, this just happened to me! I purchased a S&W M&P 2.0 model and had the exact problem with the plate screw stripping. One screw came out easily but the other stripped badly. I sent it back to S&W for repair and had no idea it will take 6-8 weeks to remove a screw until I read your post. I'm a huge fan of S&W products but this repair situation is ridiculous. Most manufacturers provide the assembly tools and their slide plate screws aren't on nearly as tight. Purchasing a new firearm and having to wait months to access it sucks.

On 1/9/2022 at 8:47 PM, peejman said:

Any chance the retailer would swap slides with you?  Assuming they have one to swap.  

Those tiny screws are prone to break. They're not easy to make and any little flaw at the base of the head will snap it right off. 

As for removing it...  a dab of epoxy to glue it to something else, then some penetrating oil and some heat should get it out of there.   Or possibly cut a slot in it for a flat screwdriver. Any access to the other side?  Is it a blind hole or through hole?  

But getting it out is only half the problem. You might get lucky and be able to just chase the threads, but drilling it out and tapping one size up is a strong possibility. You could probably get a threaded insert for it, but its not the easiest thing when it's so small. 

Either way, that's a lot of suckage for a brand new gun. 

 

[TGO David]

16 hours ago, Coach said:

Wow, this just happened to me! I purchased a S&W M&P 2.0 model and had the exact problem with the plate screw stripping. One screw came out easily but the other stripped badly. I sent it back to S&W for repair and had no idea it will take 6-8 weeks to remove a screw until I read your post. I'm a huge fan of S&W products but this repair situation is ridiculous. Most manufacturers provide the assembly tools and their slide plate screws aren't on nearly as tight. Purchasing a new firearm and having to wait months to access it sucks.

 

They got mine back to me much more quickly than they estimated.  I think I posted an update in this thread afterward, but if memory serves me correctly it was 3 or 4 weeks.  Still not a great buying experience.

Edit: It took them 4-weeks to send it back after they received it.  Five weeks total, including transit times.

 

[gary_boom]

David, What kind of red dot are you using on theM&P ? 

[TGO David]

19 hours ago, gary_boom said:

David, What kind of red dot are you using on theM&P ? 

On the one at the first part of this thread I am using a Holosun 509T.

On my most recent build (linked below) I am using a Holosun EPS MRS.

 

[gary_boom]

Thanks