Smith & Wesson Quoting 6-8 Week Repair of a Factory Defect on Brand New Gun

[papa61]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

Update for January 12, 2022

FedEx delivered my M&P to Smith & Wesson this afternoon.  For the sake of generosity, we should consider tomorrow, January 13th, as the first actual day of them having it in their possession.  I am sure that the most that will happen within the next 24-hours is that it will be logged into their FFL books and entered into whatever computer systems they use for trouble-tickets.

And then the wait will have officially begun.

 

if it makes you feel any better, I sent a request for a replacement DD214 in August. still haven't heard a peep. at least you can complain to someone who might at some point get tired of hearing from you. 

[bobsguns]

2 hours ago, papa61 said:

if it makes you feel any better, I sent a request for a replacement DD214 in August. still haven't heard a peep. at least you can complain to someone who might at some point get tired of hearing from you. 

Can you not go to the VA office in the Nashville Federal Bldg & have them print you one off? Or is that just wishful thinking?

[papa61]

28 minutes ago, bobsguns said:

Can you not go to the VA office in the Nashville Federal Bldg & have them print you one off? Or is that just wishful thinking?

I've been out a long time. my records are on actual paper. have to wait for someone to pull the file and copy it.

[Erich]

I think there is a positive in this that may go unappreciated.  This could have gone a number of ways at the point the original screws were successfully removed and new non factory screws installed with one broken off. I am not hearing that S&W questioned a number of things here, and are instead standing behind their product in good faith. 

As unfond of S&W one might want to be because of turnaround and diminished QC for throughput necessary to meet high demand ,  sounds like they are taking care of it without a hassle. 

Sounds like as much of a win as one could get given the situation.  

FWIW, I’d be willing to bet if it were a couple other companies I won’t name, they would have responded much differently, possibly with some finger pointing.

Sorry Mr. Dave, but I trust you’ll get a outcome your happy with. Good luck!

[bobsguns]

11 hours ago, papa61 said:

I've been out a long time. my records are on actual paper. have to wait for someone to pull the file and copy it.

I thought they had converted most or all of the old ones to data files?

I got out in 1982, FWIW. I keep my copy in my safe. I also scanned it & have it in my computer.

[bobsguns]

8 hours ago, Erich said:

I think there is a positive in this that may go unappreciated.  This could have gone a number of ways at the point the original screws were successfully removed and new non factory screws installed with one broken off. I am not hearing that S&W questioned a number of things here, and are instead standing behind their product in good faith. 

As unfond of S&W one might want to be because of turnaround and diminished QC for throughput necessary to meet high demand ,  sounds like they are taking care of it without a hassle. 

I've used S&W's warranty one time & they took wonderful care of me. It too was a brand spanking new PC revolver. How it got past their QC is beyond me as the problem was immediately noticeable to anyone who knew squat about revolvers. But they fixed it pretty quickly (back then).

[gun sane]

The only trouble I recall with S&W happened in the late '70s after they introduced the Model 63 kit gun in stainless steel.  The cylinder would lock up after the second or third reload.  I sent it back and Smith returned it about a month later.  Same problem.  I sold my troubles off to some other guy, who no doubt has a valuable classic on his hands.  

[bobsguns]

18 hours ago, gun sane said:

The only trouble I recall with S&W happened in the late '70s after they introduced the Model 63 kit gun in stainless steel.  The cylinder would lock up after the second or third reload.  I sent it back and Smith returned it about a month later.  Same problem.  I sold my troubles off to some other guy, who no doubt has a valuable classic on his hands.  

I have a 63 that runs perfect. I bet yours was ammo related, it shot "dirty" & locked up the cylinder with trash. It's not unheard of with .22 guns in general.

Of course if the problem persisted with multiple types of ammo, then the gun may have had too tight tolerances? Sorry you had to lose a nice shooter.

[gun sane]

1 hour ago, bobsguns said:

I have a 63 that runs perfect. I bet yours was ammo related, it shot "dirty" & locked up the cylinder with trash. It's not unheard of with .22 guns in general.

Of course if the problem persisted with multiple types of ammo, then the gun may have had too tight tolerances? Sorry you had to lose a nice shooter.

I've always been a stickler for keeping guns tidy and preventing carbon buildup.  As I recall, the gun was tighter than a Bill Clinton alibi.  My suspicion was that heat expansion between the cylinder and barrel could have jammed it up, but I would think a S&W QA inspector would have caught that.  I probably would have sold it off eventually because of the economic downturn of the period.  I said goodbye to a lot of treasures then:  a Colt Python, a Belgian-made Hi Power and a S&W Model 19, to name a few.

[bobsguns]

57 minutes ago, gun sane said:

As I recall, the gun was tighter than a Bill Clinton alibi.  My suspicion was that heat expansion between the cylinder and barrel could have jammed it up, but I would think a S&W QA inspector would have caught that.  

There's only two spots a revolver cylinder will lock upon 99% of the time: front & rear.

The forcing cone gap is the logical suspect most of the time, IMO. I've had the opposite experience, I once had a Model 25-5 I could've stuck a toothpick in the gap & not touched metal.

The cylinder rear obviously has moving parts that must all be in synch for it to work. I would hope the S&W boys would've spotted something there as it's quickly obvious when there is. 

[Grayfox54]

Ya know repair estimates in weeks really isn't that bad. I remember back in the 1970s-80s when sending a gun in for factory work was measured in months. Often 6 months or more. Colt was especially notorious about saying "We'll call you when its ready" and that could be a year. 

Over the years (about 40 I guess)  I've had to send guns back to the factory several times for different reasons. Colt, S&W and Ruger were the slowest. Often taking months. Springfield Armory and Walther were the fastest both having my gun repaired and back to me in just 8 days. 

It is what it is and no amount of worry or complaining is gonna change it. 

[bobsguns]

6 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

It is what it is and no amount of worry or complaining is gonna change it. 

Maybe, maybe not. A polite phone call wouldn't ever hurt, IMO.

I hope the S&W move to TN will improve upon their CS attitudes? Again, the one time I used them they were pretty good to me. This was in the early 1990s.

[Defender]

On 1/12/2022 at 7:54 PM, papa61 said:

I've been out a long time. my records are on actual paper. have to wait for someone to pull the file and copy it.

If Tennessee was your home of record, there’s a good chance the War Records Office at the TN National Guard on Sidco Drive has a copy.  Branches are supposed to send one to them upon separation.  In a different job, I used to help vets get copies there.   Might be worth giving them a call to see how it works.  There used to be a form you could fill out and I used to get copies in as little as a couple weeks.  

[TGO David]

Update Monday 18-JAN-2022

I received an email overnight from "OTC Batch Processing" at Smith & Wesson stating that they had received my M&P for repair and providing an RMA case number to me.  I suppose that means the gun is now officially in their queue for repair.

 

[TGO David]

On 1/15/2022 at 7:54 PM, bobsguns said:

Maybe, maybe not. A polite phone call wouldn't ever hurt, IMO.

Bob, I am shocked that you didn't know that I began this whole process with a polite phone call seeking their help.

[FUJIMO]

6 minutes ago, TGO David said:

Bob, I am shocked that you didn't know that I began this whole process with a polite phone call seeking their help.

[papa61]

On 1/18/2022 at 7:49 AM, FUJIMO said:

glad you are making progress. hope the estimated time is exaggerated.

my politeness is situational. if my new buick broke down I would not be as polite as if my used "new to me" chevy broke.

[TGO David]

1 hour ago, papa61 said:

glad you are making progress. hope the estimated time is exaggerated.

my politeness is situational. if my new buick broke down I would not be as polite as if my used "new to me" chevy broke.

Yep.  I will state, for the record, that I maintained politeness with the lady on the phone who informed me of the 6-8 week wait for the gun to be seen by a gunsmith.  I did ask that she advance me to a supervisor so that I could ask for some sort of prioritization given that it was in fact brand new, straight out of the box.   She sent me to someone's voicemail box and I haven't heard back yet.

So, my politeness for this situation is pretty much gone at this point.  Their service sucks rocks until they prove otherwise.  The clock is ticking.

 

[bobsguns]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

So, my politeness for this situation is pretty much gone at this point.  Their service sucks rocks until they prove otherwise.  The clock is ticking.

Ehhh, don't get wound up on chit you can't control, IMO. Could very well be S&W is having a hard time getting good help like everyone else these days? It's not like one can just run a newspaper ad asking for a gun smith & have 10-12 guys respond. My motorcycle dealership is having a helluva time getting and keeping good mechanics. They pay well & all that but sometimes guys just have money waved at them & the location is sometimes too hard to turn down (warmer climate, etc).

I've read lots of threads around the internet about guys having warranty work on their cars/trucks & it taking 5-6 weeks for parts, etc. Try doing that with your daily driver & the dealership not giving you a loaner. Yes, they were pretty hot about it & I can't blame them at all. 

Might be an opportunity to work something new into your carry rotation? Make sunshine out of chit?  

[TGO David]

2 hours ago, bobsguns said:

I've read lots of threads around the internet about guys having warranty work on their cars/trucks & it taking 5-6 weeks for parts, etc. Try doing that with your daily driver & the dealership not giving you a loaner. Yes, they were pretty hot about it & I can't blame them at all. 

I had a 2020 Chevy Trail Boss LT with the 6.2L engine.  It started showing signs of the lifter problems that were plaguing all of them, with less than 3,000 miles on it.  I asked about wait time for repair and was told it could be 8-12 weeks, minimum, but to go ahead and bring it in and they'd get it in the queue.

No loaner provided.

I dumped the truck and bought a different one.

So, yeah... my M.O. is not to put up with this kind of ####. 

 

2 hours ago, bobsguns said:

Might be an opportunity to work something new into your carry rotation? Make sunshine out of chit?  

Actually, the M&P was going to be something new in my carry rotation.  It might still be, one of these days.

I've got other irons in the fire.  I'm overhauling one of my old faithful Glock 19s with new stuff.  The last of the parts arrive tomorrow.

[JustEd]

If it was me, I have a good gunsmith who could tell me if it is fixable or if I should get a new slide from Smith,

[TGO David]

January 24, 2022

Officially one week since the gun was logged into the RMA system. 
Twelve days since it arrived at S&W. 

No news.  No updates.

 

[doughnut]

I had a similar issue when the Compact optic-ready M2.0s came out in November 2021.  The threads (both holes) in my slide were super tight using the factory hardware.  When threading one of the screws into the slide to install an optic it sheared off with minimal torque.  The screw head hadn't even began to touch the optic when it happened.  I understand your frustration, I was livid.  I didn't want to wait on an RMA process so I took it to my local gunsmith.  He extracted the screw with no issue and chased the threads.  After that all hardware threaded smoothly with no resistance.  I purchased a second copy of the pistol a few weeks later that had the exact same issue, minus a sheared screw.  I had those threads chased as well.  The gunsmith believed it was possibly a tolerance stacking issue caused by the finish applied over the threads?  Who knows but since having the threads chased I haven't experienced any issues after approximately 3k rounds.

Concerning the cover plate screws, about a month ago I purchased a Shield Plus optics ready and my screw heads were also rounded out from the factory.  I hammered a Torx bit in them to successfully remove them.  Very disappointing.  I'm currently waiting on a CHPWS plate and hoping to avoid any fuss with the hardware.  I've been a devoted M&P user for 5 years and pretty excited about some of the recent releases but the issues I've had are very irritating.  

P.S. if you decide to go another direction I'd be interested in buying that CHPWS 509 plate off of you

Edited February 2, 2022 by doughnut

[bobsguns]

Good news-bad news.

Bad news is, I'm highly saddened to hear S&W QC has dropped to such levels. I've a bunch of their revolvers & their target Model 52. All are excellent in examples of firearm manufacturing, IMO.

Good news is, I neither own nor plan on owning a S&W semi. My only exceptions are my Model 52 & their Model 41. 

It baffles me how a company can make such excellent revolvers & turn right around & make such mundane semi's?  

[gun sane]

3 hours ago, bobsguns said:

It baffles me how a company can make such excellent revolvers & turn right around & make such mundane semi's?  

Put more money into the PR department than into R&D.