Savage Stance new 9mm

[orientalexpress]

 

17 hours ago, Handsome Rob said:

Another?? Have they built a first for there to be another of? 

I didn't say it was their iconic pistol. 

 

Spoiler alert: It's just a 1911. 

 

 

[orientalexpress]

I told them while I was there, they should build a limited run of Model 99s, to go with the nostalgia reproductions we've seen somewhat recently.  

[felinesNfreedom]

I truly do not understand why companies decide to release something like this. It's just like when Mossberg decided to drop their pistol a couple years back. Focus on what you do well and then innovate in that field. Why make a pistol for a market that is saturated with better options?

[orientalexpress]

20 minutes ago, felinesNfreedom said:

I truly do not understand why companies decide to release something like this. It's just like when Mossberg decided to drop their pistol a couple years back. Focus on what you do well and then innovate in that field. Why make a pistol for a market that is saturated with better options?

I don't have a problem with it. The market will dictate whether or not it will be successful.  If everyone had that attitude companies like Ruger wouldn't be around.  

[Capbyrd]

17 hours ago, Moped said:

 

I'd love to see it re-introduced in .32ACP!

I think they want to sell them. 

 

[bobsguns]

1 hour ago, orientalexpress said:

I don't have a problem with it. The market will dictate whether or not it will be successful.  If everyone had that attitude companies like Ruger wouldn't be around.  

I don't think he has a "problem with it" as much as he questions their marketing , R&R & decision making. IOW, the $$ they spent would've been much better spent on a different gun. For the record, I agree, it's a bonehead decision. This gun does NOTHING a 100 other models don't or won't do. Not to mention, whom are its top competitors? Glock, H&K, Sig & CZ. That's tantamount to launching a new truck in the 1500lb class to compete with the F150, GM 1500, Dodge1500, Toyota Tundra & Nissan Titan. Who would be stupid enough to do that? Answer: no one, they know better. 

Personally, I think Savage would've sold a ton if they'd come out with a .22LR semi pistol to compete within that niche. But they didn't ask me.   

[felinesNfreedom]

2 hours ago, orientalexpress said:

I don't have a problem with it. The market will dictate whether or not it will be successful.  If everyone had that attitude companies like Ruger wouldn't be around.  

It won't be successful. They will sell some because people don't know better or just want to see what's it is about. 

[felinesNfreedom]

20 minutes ago, bobsguns said:

I don't think he has a "problem with it" as much as he questions their marketing , R&R & decision making. IOW, the $$ they spent would've been much better spent on a different gun. For the record, I agree, it's a bonehead decision. This gun does NOTHING a 100 other models don't or won't do. Not to mention, whom are its top competitors? Glock, H&K, Sig & CZ. That's tantamount to launching a new truck in the 1500lb class to compete with the F150, GM 1500, Dodge1500, Toyota Tundra & Nissan Titan. Who would be stupid enough to do that? Answer: no one, they know better. 

Personally, I think Savage would've sold a ton if they'd come out with a .22LR semi pistol to compete within that niche. But they didn't ask me.   

This, thank you.

 

I think they make solid rifles. Express, You mentioned a retro model 99. I have one is 300 savage and it's a cool rifle. I think with the love of retro rifles currently they would have sold way more Model 99's, especially is modern calibers than any pistol they will make. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by felinesNfreedom

[orientalexpress]

2 hours ago, felinesNfreedom said:

It won't be successful. They will sell some because people don't know better or just want to see what's it is about. 

I guess that depends on your definition of success.  

 

Hypothetically, if they end up being a $299 price point gun, and sell a tens of thousands of guns to people who would otherwise buy something like a Taurus.  Is it a success or not?  Their bean counters will determine that I guess.  I'm not saying it's going to be successful, and maybe it flops but through their R&D  it might shake loose something that is what you would consider a success. Again the market will dictate that. 

2 hours ago, bobsguns said:

I don't think he has a "problem with it" as much as he questions their marketing , R&R & decision making. IOW, the $$ they spent would've been much better spent on a different gun. For the record, I agree, it's a bonehead decision. This gun does NOTHING a 100 other models don't or won't do. Not to mention, whom are its top competitors? Glock, H&K, Sig & CZ. That's tantamount to launching a new truck in the 1500lb class to compete with the F150, GM 1500, Dodge1500, Toyota Tundra & Nissan Titan. Who would be stupid enough to do that? Answer: no one, they know better. 

Personally, I think Savage would've sold a ton if they'd come out with a .22LR semi pistol to compete within that niche. But they didn't ask me.   

 

This is getting off in the weeds a bit and not exactly apples to apples but to your example, many companies that are not traditional "truck" companies have ventured into the truck market, Honda and Hyundai, Jeep (less recently) and soon to be Tesla to a lesser degree. Whose to say that they don't have something in the works to compete in that 1500 class. If Honda came something are you going to say "It'll never work they should only build sedans and fuel efficient SUVs"? Or to keep it in the Gun world when Glock finally builds a PCC are you going to say "who needs another PCC? Glock should just keep making handguns"

 

[orientalexpress]

I was just thinking about when Springfield released their Saint rifle.  I remember thinking WTF, who needs another AR manufacturer.  Their ARs aren't really aren't any better than other $1200-1400 AR but I can tell you this, we've sold close to 1000 of them for a "me too" product.

[Garufa]

13 minutes ago, orientalexpress said:

I was just thinking about when Springfield released their Saint rifle.  I remember thinking WTF, who needs another AR manufacturer.  Their ARs aren't really aren't any better than other $1200-1400 AR but I can tell you this, we've sold close to 1000 of them for a "me too" product.

I still want to know why they called it Saint.

[Capbyrd]

4 minutes ago, Garufa said:

I still want to know why they called it Saint.

I also want to know why it's all caps.

[bobsguns]

2 hours ago, orientalexpress said:

This is getting off in the weeds a bit and not exactly apples to apples but to your example, many companies that are not traditional "truck" companies have ventured into the truck market, Honda and Hyundai, Jeep (less recently) and soon to be Tesla to a lesser degree. Whose to say that they don't have something in the works to compete in that 1500 class. If Honda came something are you going to say "It'll never work they should only build sedans and fuel efficient SUVs"? Or to keep it in the Gun world when Glock finally builds a PCC are you going to say "who needs another PCC? Glock should just keep making handguns"

Honda & Hyundai, Glock all have proven track records on new products. Savage, not so much aside from their Accu Trigger. Good guns? Sure. But nothing groundbreaking. 

I remember when Toyota came out with their T100 trucks & the Tundra. While the T100 got dropped pretty quickly, the Tundra sells well. Why? Because it offers something of value to the buyer. The Stance model doesn't seem to offer anything new, better or special. Of course it's not hit the market yet nor do we know the price. But I would think the engineer in charge of this thing & the R&R guy shouldn't be buying any new houses or cars anytime soon, IMO. I think this will sell along the numbers of the Taurus Curve, IMO. 

The Stance just doesn't bring anything to the table to make it a "contenda".....................

[Moped]

7 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

I think they want to sell them. 

 

[felinesNfreedom]

5 hours ago, orientalexpress said:

I was just thinking about when Springfield released their Saint rifle.  I remember thinking WTF, who needs another AR manufacturer.  Their ARs aren't really aren't any better than other $1200-1400 AR but I can tell you this, we've sold close to 1000 of them for a "me too" product.

There are a lot of better rifles out there at the price point they sell the Saints at. From my 5 years at the gun counter I have realized most people have no clue what they are buying. Most people do no research when purchasing a firearm, just amazes me.

[Grayfox54]

Savage is apparently doing well enough that they can increase their product line and try new things. That's called innovation. Good for them for at least trying. 

[bobsguns]

7 hours ago, felinesNfreedom said:

From my 5 years at the gun counter I have realized most people have no clue what they are buying. Most people do no research when purchasing a firearm, just amazes me.

You could apply that to almost anything, IMO. Cars, houses, computers, etc. Most people don't want to be bothered with research, don't want to spend the time on it and maybe don't understand it either?

I recently did a bunch of on-line looking at a new computer. A lot of terms I didn't know or understand, so I kept plugging at it until I had a small grasp of understanding. Most people aren't going to be that OCD, IMO. 

New gun buyers often just want something decent, that they can afford & will go "bang" when they pull the trigger. Impulse buyers, if you will.

[orientalexpress]

15 hours ago, bobsguns said:

Honda & Hyundai, Glock all have proven track records on new products. Savage, not so much aside from their Accu Trigger. Good guns? Sure. But nothing groundbreaking. 

I remember when Toyota came out with their T100 trucks & the Tundra. While the T100 got dropped pretty quickly, the Tundra sells well. Why? Because it offers something of value to the buyer. The Stance model doesn't seem to offer anything new, better or special. Of course it's not hit the market yet nor do we know the price. But I would think the engineer in charge of this thing & the R&R guy shouldn't be buying any new houses or cars anytime soon, IMO. I think this will sell along the numbers of the Taurus Curve, IMO. 

The Stance just doesn't bring anything to the table to make it a "contenda".....................

I know nothing about Hyundais but the Element, Prelude, Del Sol, and S2000 come to mind.  Where are they?

[orientalexpress]

13 hours ago, felinesNfreedom said:

There are a lot of better rifles out there at the price point they sell the Saints at. From my 5 years at the gun counter I have realized most people have no clue what they are buying. Most people do no research when purchasing a firearm, just amazes me.

Not arguing that point. So that doesn't translate to carry size polymer pistols?

[Capbyrd]

8 minutes ago, orientalexpress said:

I know nothing about Hyundais but the Element, Prelude, Del Sol, and S2000 come to mind.  Where are they?

Honda Element was a niche vehicle that was never going to last.  It didn't have mass market appeal.  Other makers have done similar with the Nissan Xterra and Ford Flex.  

The Prelude was an "experimental" vehicle.  I don't think they originally planned to release it either.  It was supposed to be a showcase of possible automotive innovation (the first VTEC, the first four wheel steering for Honda, etc.).  Again, not a model that was ever intended to live forever.  

The Del Sol was the Honda Civic CRX.  Two seat compact hatches really died out.  Making it a targa was a good effort to give it another generation but the market wasn't buying so again, it died out.  

The S2000 wasn't intended to live forever either.  It was a sports car for that generation and a great one at that.  It gave kids that grew up with Civics a nice two seat sports car until they got families and needed more seats.  

Traditionally, automotive models are short lived with just a few generations and then the market changes.  Having name plates that live on is relatively odd.  Those models are few and far between. 

 

[memphismason]

I already want my money back.  

[Magiccarpetrides]

On 12/29/2021 at 6:54 PM, bobsguns said:

Honda & Hyundai, Glock all have proven track records on new products. Savage, not so much aside from their Accu Trigger. Good guns? Sure. But nothing groundbreaking. 

I remember when Toyota came out with their T100 trucks & the Tundra. While the T100 got dropped pretty quickly, the Tundra sells well. Why? Because it offers something of value to the buyer. The Stance model doesn't seem to offer anything new, better or special. Of course it's not hit the market yet nor do we know the price. But I would think the engineer in charge of this thing & the R&R guy shouldn't be buying any new houses or cars anytime soon, IMO. I think this will sell along the numbers of the Taurus Curve, IMO. 

The Stance just doesn't bring anything to the table to make it a "contenda".....................

Actually the T100 was renamed the Tundra…both are insane reliable.  People also called Toyota crazy when they started Lexus to compete with Mercedes…called Musk crazy when he said Tesla would sell a million cars (sold over 900,000 this last quarter)…etc…I don’t think that saturation is a real thing…however I do agree this thing is a bit underwhelming from a solid brand like Savage. 

[Capbyrd]

7 hours ago, Magiccarpetrides said:

Actually the T100 was renamed the Tundra…both are insane reliable.  People also called Toyota crazy when they started Lexus to compete with Mercedes…called Musk crazy when he said Tesla would sell a million cars (sold over 900,000 this last quarter)…etc…I don’t think that saturation is a real thing…however I do agree this thing is a bit underwhelming from a solid brand like Savage. 

This isn't entirely true.  The T100, although marketed as a full size pickup, was smaller than any other 1/2 ton on the market at the time.  It was slightly larger than the mid size Dodge Dakota but nowhere near the size of a true full size pickup.  The Tundra was a true full size pickup from day one. 

 

[deerslayer]

2 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

This isn't entirely true.  The T100, although marketed as a full size pickup, was smaller than any other 1/2 ton on the market at the time.  It was slightly larger than the mid size Dodge Dakota but nowhere near the size of a true full size pickup.  The Tundra was a true full size pickup from day one. 

 

Mmmm the original Tundra was barely bigger than current Tacoma.  Maybe 90% of an F150.  I had one.  The gen 2 Tundra is legit full size.  The T100 was basically a Tacoma.  

[Capbyrd]

15 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Mmmm the original Tundra was barely bigger than current Tacoma.  Maybe 90% of an F150.  I had one.  The gen 2 Tundra is legit full size.  The T100 was basically a Tacoma.  

I'm not talking about cross generational.  

Year for year, the Tundra has always been a true full size and the T100 was a midsize.