Norma 9mm "Range" brass issues

[Jamie Jackson]

I am not immune to picking up range brass if abandoned and historically have not paid much attention to sorting it by headstamp.

I primarily load (on my beloved and 3 decade old Dillon 550) range or practice ammo. And I've loaded quite literally 10's of thousands of 9mm rounds from range pickup brass since the 1980's. FWIW the majority of my range pickup brass has come from cleaning up the indoor range at ORSA when I S.O.'d there this past year.

As mentioned I load 9mm on my Dillon. I use RCBS dies (Collet decapping pin in my RCBS die). I, of course, have broken a few decapping pins over the years.

But I had 3 episodes of the pin getting stuck in Norma 9mm brass within the past 2 weeks. You would think I would have thought to check the brass after the first time!

The pin had to be driven out with a punch and hammer...

Apparently the flash hole on Norma brass is markedly smaller than the flash hole the plethora of my range pickup brass. It's just a hair smaller in diameter than my RCBS decapping pins, at least for the most part. (Checking back through the 400 rounds I've handloaded this past week, I found 3 Norma brass that apparently passed muster...)

I didn't know that was a "thing". But after doing an internet search it apparently has been a "thing" noted on several forum reloading sections the past 6 months.

I sorted 700 pieces of brass today and removed around 80 pieces of Norma brass from the pile.

Have any of you folks experienced this with Norma brass?

 

I miss the good old days of Winchester and Federal brass left laying on the ground

 

[deerslayer]

I don't recall undersized flash holes, but I have learned which headstamps have tight primer pockets.  CBC, A-MERC, S&B, couple other weird ones that I don't remember but would recognize are all junk that I try to avoid.  I also use a 550 and have just about mastered the art of hitting the brakes on seating a primer just in time when I feel one of these (or a military case).    

[Jamie Jackson]

@deerslayer,

I hear you on the S&B and tight primer pockets.

I've always thought I had enough of that "feel" to stop mid-stroke  (like with a mil-crimped or especially Berdan primed brass).

I can see a size difference looking down into the brass, but the smaller diameter Norma flash hole is just close enough and seems to trap the decapping pin on the upstroke, pulling it free.

I shouldn't complain and will certainly be checking more closely in the future.

I've read on other forums where folks were enlarging the 9mm (an other caliber) Norma flash holes. I think I'll just sort and discard into my junk brass bucket.

[deerslayer]

I wonder if RCBS uses a fatter decap pin?  I've used only Dillon and Lee resize/deprime dies.

[BJB]

I don’t recall ever having an issue like this. I also pick up a lot of abandoned brass and if it looks good I load it. I use RCBS dies and press 

[Jamie Jackson]

I'm terrible with photography, but I'll try and get a decent photo of the RCBS pins I've been using.

The attached photo shows a piece of Winchester brass on the left and Norma brass on the right.

It seems Norma and Federal (maybe others) are selling pistol ammo (intermittently) from their websites direct to customers at decent (near Pre-COVID) pricing.

I haven't purchased any factory ammo sine Black Friday sales in 2019. But apparently folks are buying the Norma and Federal as that seems to be the majority of brass I'm scrounging these days. FWIW I'm seeing a lot of Blazer brass as well. The Norma is the only one giving me any issues.

It's a bit of a PIA, but guess I'll sorting 9mm now <sigh>.

[Swede]

I too have seen Norma 9mm with noticeably smaller flashholes, even smaller than the one pictured above by Jamie Jackson.  I saw on a case of 9mm Norma that it was made in Hungary.  I just started tossing the ones with tiny flash holes in the scrap bucket; 9mm is too common to fool with difficult cases. 

[gregintenn]

Don’t know if this will help, but I have two different sized recapping pins for RCBS dies. I’m not sure if they are interchangeable.

[Jamie Jackson]

I agree @Swede, way too plentiful. Just a PIA to have to cull them out. But it's now a step in my process.

 

@gregintenn,

The majority of my dies are RCBS. I have 1 Lyman and 1 Hornady. The RCBS small pins mike at 1.55 mm, the Lyman at 1.55mm. The Hornady are for 32 S&W and mike at 1.75mm.

The RCBS 1.55 pins work great for 9mm (normally), .380, and .38/,357

FWIW I've dramatically trimmed down what I shoot and load for over the past 3 years. So I no longer have any Lee dies.

 

I shouldn't complain. At least I can handload range ammo whenever I like, and that's a big plus in the times we find ourselves in.

[Swede]

Followup to my post above about Norma flash holes in 9mm cases.  Last night I saw a photo of a "white box" of Norma 9mm that was made in Germany.  I have noticed two distinct sizes of flash holes in Norma 9mm (too small and normal looking) so where it's loaded may be the difference.

[FrankD]

Don't reload so can't comment, but Norma has been killing it on pricing lately so I would expect you will start seeing more and more of this brass around.

[JustEd]

Is it possible that NORMA rebrands ammo in order to offer a low cost option to its customers?  Not saying that is the case, but it seems that the brass I have problems reloading are mostly Eastern European in origin.

[Huntin101]

As someone looking to start reloading this has been insightful to say the least thanks all.

[scatman]

I've had 0 issues with Norma cases, are the cases you're using clean? Is your decapping pin? Do you have your pin seated too far down? I've had one issue with my Hornady decapper getting stuck in .45, my pin was set too deep, raised it up a hair, never happened again, with either small or large primer pockets.

Edited June 15, 2022 by scatman

[Beltfed]

I too use a very old 550 with Dillon dies and have experienced small flash holes.  It’s like the .45 acp issue with large and small primer pockets we see now.  Just another step to save our precious primers.

[Jamie Jackson]

2 hours ago, scatman said:

I've had 0 issues with Norma cases, are the cases you're using clean? Is your decapping pin? Do you have your pin seated too far down? I've had one issue with my Hornady decapper getting stuck in .45, my pin was set too deep, raised it up a hair, never happened again, with either small or large primer pockets.

If this is addressed to me, no everything is as it should be, except the smaller than standard primer holes I encountered.

I routinely handload at least 5000 9mm rounds per year, usually more and as many as 14K a few years back..same setup and of course, well maintained. That's why this press will probably outlast me.

As I mentioned upthread, apparently a few on the 9mm Norma cases passed through without a hitch... unfortunately not all.

I read the same complaint or issue on Brian Enos and several other forums... once I found it to be as issue for me, I discovered I wasn't alone in this.

I just sort my range brass and cull out the 9mm Norma cases. But Hey, it's free, I have no right to complain...I guess

[scatman]

33 minutes ago, Jamie Jackson said:

I routinely handload at least 5000 9mm rounds per year, usually more and as many as 14K a few years back..same setup and of course, well maintained. That's why this press will probably outlast me.

I'm right there with you, I load for myself and about 15 other people regularly. my press is almost 3x my age already, and it'll probably last another 100 years, it was my grandfather's passed down to my old man and then to me. I just thought I'd give a little insight on some issues I've had in the past with my set up, you know little things that sometimes get overlooked with time. 

[Jamie Jackson]

14 hours ago, scatman said:

 you know little things that sometimes get overlooked with time. 

Totally agree. As the saying goes... "The Devil is in the details"