Man Arrives to Pick Up Son from Ex-Wife... Things Do Not Go Well

[Alleycat72]

I say Mom is in pretty good shape now. She got half the money and now her son gets the other half plus she gets rid of two hot heads.

[chances R]

shooting someone in self defense should always be of last resort.....I don't see that here.

[Daniel]

13 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

Something that throws an extra factor into the mix regarding justifiable self defense is that one loses the ability to use deadly force if they are involved in a crime at the time. 
 

Parental interference is a felony in Texas. The entire argument leading up to the shooting revolves around them not turning over the kid at the court appointed time. 
 

https://lawandcrime.com/caught-on-video/attorney-releases-video-of-clients-husband-being-shot-to-death-by-ex-wifes-boyfriend-boyfriend-claims-self-defense/?fbclid=IwAR1ZMw1K0agktHQZkvX9VVc_XHCeCuIcp_eEAV2qNljCPYfhVZzjKT6fU1g

I dont think he is involved with the PI though as they arent married and thus he has no custody of the child.  The child wasnt at the home.  

[Chucktshoes]

22 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I dont think he is involved with the PI though as they arent married and thus he has no custody of the child.  The child wasnt at the home.  

Maybe, maybe not. That’s all information that I am sure will part of the investigation. 
 

While I lean towards it not being a good shoot, I don’t think any of us have enough information to conclusively say one way or another. At least not in a legal sense.
 

Ethically and morally, I don’t see myself being able to justify the decision that Carruth made that day had I done the same. 
 

I’m not excusing Read of his behavior either. His actions surely led to his death, I’m just not convinced it was justifiably done. Yo me this appears to be one of those cases where there are no innocent parties. The decedent, the mother, and the Carruth all appear to me to be in the wrong. 

[FUJIMO]

7 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

Maybe, maybe not. That’s all information that I am sure will part of the investigation. 
 

While I lean towards it not being a good shoot, I don’t think any of us have enough information to conclusively say one way or another. At least not in a legal sense.
 

Ethically and morally, I don’t see myself being able to justify the decision that Carruth made that day had I done the same. 
 

I’m not excusing Read of his behavior either. His actions surely led to his death, I’m just not convinced it was justifiably done. Yo me this appears to be one of those cases where there are no innocent parties. The decedent, the mother, and the Carruth all appear to me to be in the wrong. 

Honestly if I am Carruth in this video I'd have never gone inside and knowing Read as he most likely did (unarmed) when he placed hands on me in my yard we would have been inside an instant squared circle . 

[Chucktshoes]

53 minutes ago, FUJIMO said:

Honestly if I am Carruth in this video I'd have never gone inside and knowing Read as he most likely did (unarmed) when he placed hands on me in my yard we would have been inside an instant squared circle . 

While I get that thinking, that just isn’t my approach anymore. I’m not going hands on with someone unless absolutely necessary. A fistfight can become a deadly encounter even without someone introducing outside weapons in a blink of an eye. Folks get punched, fall and hit their head or myriad other things and die all the time. It just ain’t worth it. I’m 100% de-escalate up to and including fleeing the altercation until I have no other choice. I got into a lot of fights when I was a younger man. I used to say that I won some and lost some. With the perspective I have now, I lost them all as far as I am concerned because I didn’t avoid them. 

[TGO David]

Andrew Branca (Attorney and author of Law of Self Defense) wrote a pretty good opinion on this case over on Legal Insurrection.

Chad Read Shooting: Evidence Supports Manslaughter, Not Justification (legalinsurrection.com)

 

[Grayfox54]

Yeah. Trial by internet. That's what I was afraid of. Gettin' popular these days. 

[OLDNEWBIE]

5 hours ago, TGO David said:

Andrew Branca (Attorney and author of Law of Self Defense) wrote a pretty good opinion on this case over on Legal Insurrection.

Chad Read Shooting: Evidence Supports Manslaughter, Not Justification (legalinsurrection.com)

 

Good analysis.

The still frame from taken from the house POV in this article  tells the whole story in my opinion.

In the vid Read appears at the moment of shooting to be standing almost at attention arms at side and at least 7 feet? or more away from the pointed carbine.

Looks like he had almost come to his senses and realised what a dangerous situation he got himself into. He was standing still. No immediate threat like moments earlier.

Texas law and a good lawyer might save shooter but at that moment in time, killing the man was just wrong and ..   

smacks of revenge, anger and loss of control. 

3:15 just sticks in my head, dead man kept repeating that. Jesus help me but I've been that stupid angry in my younger days. When you're right and know it, you're willing to die on that hill to prove it. Too bad he didn't just walk away and deal with it some other way. His Kid has the vid now to haunt him for the rest of his life. And the bad living situation he probably had is now 100 times worse I'm guessing. 

 

[Capbyrd]

7 hours ago, TGO David said:

Andrew Branca (Attorney and author of Law of Self Defense) wrote a pretty good opinion on this case over on Legal Insurrection.

Chad Read Shooting: Evidence Supports Manslaughter, Not Justification (legalinsurrection.com)

 

I've read some responses to Branca's piece that say Branca ignores or was ignorant of some pieces of Texas law that change things.   I don't know Texas well enough to say, but Branca is a probably a good starting point at the very least. 

 

 

[Defender]

I still don’t understand how the women there can be so calm, even in Texas.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Defender

[Daniel]

7 hours ago, TGO David said:

Andrew Branca (Attorney and author of Law of Self Defense) wrote a pretty good opinion on this case over on Legal Insurrection.

Chad Read Shooting: Evidence Supports Manslaughter, Not Justification (legalinsurrection.com)

 

Manslaughter for sure seems likely based on this take. 

[Alleycat72]

1 hour ago, Defender said:

I still don’t understand how the women here can be so calm, even in Texas.

Things like that are funny. You never know how you or someone else will react in a situation like that. I wouldn't hold it against her at the moment. I've watched some people die in spectacular fashion and most of the people around me were men. They all reacted from the indifferent to just turning their hands. 

[OLDNEWBIE]

2 hours ago, Defender said:

I still don’t understand how the women there can be so calm, even in Texas.

Watched a news clip where she said she thought it was some kind of taser. If you never saw that setup before, supressed and never expected a real gun to appear, perhaps true. Woman in house could be heard screaming out. Maybe cell camera holder?

 

[deerslayer]

11 hours ago, TGO David said:

Andrew Branca (Attorney and author of Law of Self Defense) wrote a pretty good opinion on this case over on Legal Insurrection.

Chad Read Shooting: Evidence Supports Manslaughter, Not Justification (legalinsurrection.com)

 

Pretty thorough analysis, but I disagree with his opinion that Read was trying to grab the gun prior to the shot into the ground.  My impression was a guy who is tired of having the side of a gun barrel pushing against his arm.  It looked to me like he tried to push or flip it away instead of grabbing for it.  A minor detail, but one that could possibly sway a juror's thinking when considering what led up to the shooting.  

[Capbyrd]

13 hours ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

Watched a news clip where she said she thought it was some kind of taser. If you never saw that setup before, supressed and never expected a real gun to appear, perhaps true. Woman in house could be heard screaming out. Maybe cell camera holder?

 

The rifle wasn't suppressed. 

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

52 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

The rifle wasn't suppressed. 

 

I stand corrected. Didnt look too closely at it. The shroud and the quietness fooled me. The two shots at the ground were insanely quiet I thought.

[Capbyrd]

18 minutes ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

I stand corrected. Didnt look too closely at it. The shroud and the quietness fooled me. The two shots at the ground were insanely quiet I thought.

Lots of people have made this mistake.   It is quiet. But phone camera mics are terrible and 16 inch pistol caliber rifles aren't loud to begin with. 

 

[The Legion]

This is a shooting over a custody argument that happened in Texas around November 5, 2021.  The shooter is claiming self defense.  Follow the link and watch the video of the shooting. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/caught-on-cam-custody-argument-prior-to-texas-man-being-shot-to-death

[Quavodus]

If I was the shooter, I wouldn't have shot him after we got a few feet apart. I would've hit him with the butt of the rifle, if he came at me again though.

[Grayfox54]

Got this in a Guns America e-mail this morning. Grand Jury decides NOT to file charges. 

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/grand-jury-chooses-not-to-indict-man-from-viral-texas-porch-shooting/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=20220408_FridayDigest_377&utm_campaign=/digest/grand-jury-chooses-not-to-indict-man-from-viral-texas-porch-shooting/

[DWARREN123]

PCC is not a rifle to use to beat people with. 

My belief is, told to leave my property and don't you are wrong!

 

[Grayfox54]

9 hours ago, DWARREN123 said:

My belief is, told to leave my property and don't you are wrong!

Yeah, I kinda think that's what the Grand Jury in Texas was thinking too. 

[JayC]

I know I'm late to the party but, Branca fails to look at any Texas case law.  There are a number of cases where the cover attached porch of a house has been considered the home for purposes of the Felony Burglary statue in TX.  Carruth was committing a force-able felon under TX law when he removed Reed from his 'home'. 

As such the chance Reed was ever going to get charged was slim to none, because there was already case law on point in TX that the porch was part of the home, and removing somebody from their home was a forcible felony, which basically provides self defense protections under TX law.  Under TX law this would be no different than a kidnap victim killing somebody removing them from their house against their will, fear of serious bodily injury or death is presumed under TX law.

Carruth had a long criminal record, including a long prison sentence, which probably didn't encourage any prosecutor for wanting to go to bat on this shooting.   

On 11/29/2021 at 3:11 PM, Capbyrd said:

I've read some responses to Branca's piece that say Branca ignores or was ignorant of some pieces of Texas law that change things.   I don't know Texas well enough to say, but Branca is a probably a good starting point at the very least.