Man Arrives to Pick Up Son from Ex-Wife... Things Do Not Go Well

[Daniel]

http://www.lusterlaw.com/page/texas-castle-law-doctrine-self-defense

 

Quote

 

How the Castle Doctrine in Texas Works

To understand how the castle law works, it is important to understand the underlying laws for self-defense and the use of force related to protecting others and property. The key word in all of these laws is “reasonable.” For example, it is never considered reasonable to use force against someone for words alone. Tex. Penal Code § 9.31(b)(1). If the force used is reasonable in the situation, then using force is considered justified.

When force is used in the specific circumstances of the castle doctrine, the law presumes that the use of force was reasonable. The presumption of reasonableness makes it much easier to avoid criminal charges, and even if you are charged, it is much easier to prove that your actions were justified.

The castle doctrine in Texas presumes that using force is reasonable and justified when another person:

unlawfully and with force enters or attempts to enter your habitation, vehicle, or work-place; or

attempts to remove you, by force, from your habitation, vehicle, or work-place;

was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

Texas Penal Code § 9.31

 

In the context of self-defense, “habitation” means any structure or vehicle that is adapted for overnight living by a person. However, it only includes structures that are connected to the main habitation. For example, a detached garage that is a separate structure from your house would likely not be considered your habitation. But if the garage was attached to the home, then it would be considered part of your habitation.

As it relates to the Castle-Doctrine, a “vehicle” is any device by which a person or property can be propelled or moved. This includes, but is not limited to, cars, golf carts, ATVs, boats, and airplanes.

Exceptions

 

There are two major exceptions to the castle doctrine: the person seeking to claim protection under the law cannot have provoked, or started, the incident. This is also known as being the “aggressor,” and it is not permitted under Texas law. The person must also not be engaged in criminal activity at the time the incident takes place. A person that is engaged in criminal activity will not be entitled to a castle doctrine defense, but they may be able to claim self-defense and lessen their punishment depending on the circumstances surrounding the event.

 

 


 

 

[deerslayer]

7 minutes ago, Daniel said:

http://www.lusterlaw.com/page/texas-castle-law-doctrine-self-defense

 

 


 

 

I didn't see Read do any of this.  

 

The castle doctrine in Texas presumes that using force is reasonable and justified when another person:

unlawfully and with force enters or attempts to enter your habitation, vehicle, or work-place; or

attempts to remove you, by force, from your habitation, vehicle, or work-place;

was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

 

In the context of self-defense, “habitation” means any structure or vehicle that is adapted for overnight living by a person. However, it only includes structures that are connected to the main habitation.

[Daniel]

4 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

I didn't see Read do any of this.  

 

The castle doctrine in Texas presumes that using force is reasonable and justified when another person:

unlawfully and with force enters or attempts to enter your habitation, vehicle, or work-place; or

attempts to remove you, by force, from your habitation, vehicle, or work-place;

was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

 

In the context of self-defense, “habitation” means any structure or vehicle that is adapted for overnight living by a person. However, it only includes structures that are connected to the main habitation.

Me either. I did see and hear him say he'd take the gun and ####ing kill him with it though.

[Daniel]

 

[deerslayer]

2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Me either. I did see and hear him say he'd take the gun and ####ing kill him with it though.

The key word in all of these laws is “reasonable.” For example, it is never considered reasonable to use force against someone for words alone. 

Doesn't sound like Carruth will be able to argue Castle Doctrine.  

[Daniel]

Just now, deerslayer said:

The key word in all of these laws is “reasonable.” For example, it is never considered reasonable to use force against someone for words alone. 

Doesn't sound like Carruth will be able to argue Castle Doctrine.  

Except Read grabbed his gun and yanked on it.

[deerslayer]

Just now, Daniel said:

Except Read grabbed his gun and yanked on it.

After the guy shot at his feet.  

[Daniel]

Just now, deerslayer said:

After the guy shot at his feet.  

Yeah that will certainly work against his defense.    

[deerslayer]

Well crap, the video has been removed.  Read does seem to be throwing his weight around, but at one point, there is some back and forth and Carruth is backing Read up (after he went in and got his gun).  The Lubbock prosecutor recused herself because one of the local judges is Carruth's ex and the case has been turned over to the TX AG.  That could maybe explain the delay in charges or announcing that Carruth was justified.  Now I'm really curious how this one turns out. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by deerslayer

[Daniel]

On 11/26/2021 at 5:54 PM, deerslayer said:

Well crap, the video has been removed.  Read does seem to be throwing his weight around, but at one point, there is some back and forth and Carruth is backing Read up (after he went in and got his gun).  The Lubbock prosecutor recused himself because one of the local judges is Carruth's ex and the case has been turned over to the TX AG.  That could maybe explain the delay in charges or announcing that Carruth was justified.  Now I'm really curious how this one turns out. 

You can still find it on news sites but they dont show the actual shooting and Im not sure if they all have that first clip from inside that some other woman* took.  

Edited November 28, 2021 by Daniel
 (Not the wife as shes still outside and the person calling the police says her ex-husband showed up.

[Daniel]

4 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Well crap, the video has been removed.  Read does seem to be throwing his weight around, but at one point, there is some back and forth and Carruth is backing Read up (after he went in and got his gun).  The Lubbock prosecutor recused herself because one of the local judges is Carruth's ex and the case has been turned over to the TX AG.  That could maybe explain the delay in charges or announcing that Carruth was justified.  Now I'm really curious how this one turns out. 

 

[Daniel]

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=a27a365a-2754-4274-8873-093ca7ee7228&cp=33.513443~-101.862608&lvl=21&style=g&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027
 

 

[Defender]

Nerves act this way towards someone who has his gun out and ready to use…

[Chucktshoes]

I’d go one further and just say never act this way. 
 

Unless the fighters are being paid for it professionally, there’s no such thing as winning a fight between adults. Everyone involved is a loser. 

[Erik88]

I'm really having a hard time buying self defense on this one the more I think about it. It really looked like the shooter was HOPING for an excuse to kill him. That doesn't mean the dead guy was innocent. At minimum, he made horrible decisions. 

 

[Hozzie]

When someone brings out a gun and you can walk away, do it.   Seems pretty simple.  

Meathead thought he was bigger and badder and found out he wasn’t. 
 

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

The new vid angle shows clearly when shot was fired there was ample distance between them. No need to shoot unless mouth charged. 

If that guy was that distance from me and I already had it pointed at him......No way I would have shot at that moment. That's if you objectively  take all emotion out of the equation. And yes I have been emotional and angry as these people at times in my life. 

Watching this vid just makes me sad for all involved. I'm going to go hug my family now.

[Erik88]

2 hours ago, Hozzie said:

When someone brings out a gun and you can walk away, do it.   Seems pretty simple.  

Meathead thought he was bigger and badder and found out he wasn’t. 
 

 

I agree. I'm just saying I didn't see anything in that confrontation that warranted killing meathead. Stupidity from all involved.

[FUJIMO]

I just saw the footage of this today.

Never a good idea to stick around when guns come out and your feet are NOT on your property. As for the shooter I don't know about the rest of you but I know of at least one gun buddy that would react this way if he were put in this situation. Some people overreact and/or panic under stress. 

[i1afli]

I think it’s reasonable that the shooter may have believed that he was about to be picked up and body-slammed to the ground. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by i1afli

[monkeylizard]

54 minutes ago, i1afli said:

I think it’s reasonable that the shooter may have believed that he was about to be picked up and body-slammed to the ground. 

Really? With the amount of distance between the two of them at the moment the shots were fired?

I don't.

But as I and others said above, there could be a history between these two or a history of the deceased known by the shooter that may have created a reasonable fear of imminent serious bodily harm or death in that moment. It's gonna take a serious history of violent behavior and a dang good lawyer for the shooter to prove that though.

[Garufa]

1 hour ago, i1afli said:

I think it’s reasonable that the shooter may have believed that he was about to be picked up and body-slammed to the ground. 

Before or after he went inside the house and came back out with the carbine?

[Chucktshoes]

Something that throws an extra factor into the mix regarding justifiable self defense is that one loses the ability to use deadly force if they are involved in a crime at the time. 
 

Parental interference is a felony in Texas. The entire argument leading up to the shooting revolves around them not turning over the kid at the court appointed time. 
 

https://lawandcrime.com/caught-on-video/attorney-releases-video-of-clients-husband-being-shot-to-death-by-ex-wifes-boyfriend-boyfriend-claims-self-defense/?fbclid=IwAR1ZMw1K0agktHQZkvX9VVc_XHCeCuIcp_eEAV2qNljCPYfhVZzjKT6fU1g

Edited November 28, 2021 by Chucktshoes

[FUJIMO]

46 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Something that throws an extra factor into the mix regarding justifiable self defense is that one loses the ability to use deadly force if they are involved in a crime at the time. 
 

Parental interference is a felony in Texas. The entire argument leading up to the shooting revolves around them not turning over the kid at the court appointed time. 
 

https://lawandcrime.com/caught-on-video/attorney-releases-video-of-clients-husband-being-shot-to-death-by-ex-wifes-boyfriend-boyfriend-claims-self-defense/?fbclid=IwAR1ZMw1K0agktHQZkvX9VVc_XHCeCuIcp_eEAV2qNljCPYfhVZzjKT6fU1g

As with so many custody cases he had the law on his side and according to your link told his Ex he had called them but it was to his former mother in laws and not there. If they approach it as you're suggesting things could go very badly for Mr. Carruth. Thanks for posting.

[Grayfox54]

I read in one of the articles somewhere that after spinning  Carruth off the porch that Read started to move toward him. The video doesn't show Read at this point. But if true, it could make a world of difference. 

IDK man.  its Texas and the laws there are different. On the surface it looks like a bad shoot.  Lots of info here that we aren't privy too. 

What bothers me is that the media is making a big thing about Carruth being well off, a politically connected republican and his judge ex-wife. Seems like this is another case that'll be tried in the court of public opinion. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Grayfox54