Electric Vehicles

[Darrell]

7 hours ago, OldIronFan said:

Just had a quote to replace the fuel injectors on my wife's car, $2800. Just the fuel injectors.

Just ordered a set of glow plugs for my Ford diesel and the set, including the wiring harness that runs through the valve cover gaskets, comes to $350. And I'll do the labor. Everything is more expensive....

[Erik88]

I like my gas powered truck but I recognize change is inevitable. I imagine people complained when we made the switch from horse to automobile too.

[Chucktshoes]

37 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I like my gas powered truck but I recognize change is inevitable. I imagine people complained when we made the switch from horse to automobile too.

They did. Hell, you should read the arguments against making the switch from horses to tanks.

[bobsguns]

3 hours ago, peejman said:

When the timing belt was due to be changed in my minivan, the Toyota dealer gave me the lowest estimate. All 3 local shops were 10-20% higher.  

The Sienna van is a nightmare to work on. Odd, given Toyota's past record of good designs, IMO. 

I wonder if the shops didn't go higher to scare you off so they wouldn't have to do it? Or, if you agreed, they'd be certain it's worth their while.

[bobsguns]

24 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

They did. Hell, you should read the arguments against making the switch from horses to tanks.

I have read that, it's pretty funny looking back on it. Given the design of the very first few tanks, I can understand some of their arguments.  

But that's more apples to oranges, IMO. A more appropriate argument would be the switch from gas to diesel to gas turbine in a tank, IMO. 

Urban areas are more conducive to an electric vehicle. Rural areas, not so much. They should make those designers drive around Montana, Wyoming & so forth. See what it's like to be 500 miles away from the nearest city. At least in my truck I can carry a couple of 5 gal gas cans for emergencies. 

[-boatman-]

3 hours ago, Darrell said:

Just ordered a set of glow plugs for my Ford diesel and the set, including the wiring harness that runs through the valve cover gaskets, comes to $350. And I'll do the labor. Everything is more expensive....

Do the fords really need the glow plugs? I have the grid heater unhooked in my 6.7 Cummins and can't tell any difference in how it starts in cold weather.

[papa61]

I'm and have been since the 70's an advocate for fuel diversity. though I wouldn't push full electric as environmentally preferred to fossil fuel at all. I would be looking for a hybrid if I were in the market for a new vehicle. A true hybrid is just more efficient. If I had the means to build ny own it would be a multi fuel hybrid. I would like to see what could be done with a turbine engine gas/electric hybrid. I believe ethanol, methanol, bio-diesel, LPG should all be in use. Each fuel has it's own emissions, but the issues are all different. You aren't overloading the atmosphere with any given pollutant. We use EGR to cool the combustion process, this lowers efficiency and raises carbon emissions in order to lower NOX levels. this process lowers the oxygen level of the incoming charge. each thing engineers have tried and implemented has only moved the problem. All of this said, if it were workable for me I would daily drive an all electric in order to offset a (badass) hot rod.

Oh, the electric tech isn't new, when one of my boys was young we played with radio control monster trucks. the capabilities of those made me wonder how to upsize them and use the tech in full size rides. With regenerative braking and smarter, faster charging the only obstacle to electrics taking over is batteries.

[FUJIMO]

I drove this hybrid in the UK back in 2019. Its not slated for release here until 2023 and pending new regulation(s) will only be released in limited numbers. Technology and logistics is NOT the biggest hurdle. As usual it traces straight back to money. BTW I averaged 51mpg and it had an onboard meter in the cluster letting me know when I was at optimum speed for charging/regen/etc. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by FUJIMO

[Jeb48]

54 minutes ago, -boatman- said:

Do the fords really need the glow plugs? I have the grid heater unhooked in my 6.7 Cummins and can't tell any difference in how it starts in cold weather.

I don't know about the later Ford diesels but my 2000 7.3 had bad glow plugs for years. The only problem was starting in cold weather. Luckily I was already retired by the time they were bad and I plugged the block heater into an appliance module that I could switch on remotely. I would turn on the heater and hour or so before I needed to start it and it would start right up.

[Darrell]

11 hours ago, -boatman- said:

Do the fords really need the glow plugs?

Mine is a 2002 7.3 Powerstroke, and yes, it needs the plugs. I've seen starting slowly deteriorate over the past year and with the current cold weather it's reached the point of needing new plugs. But given that the truck is 20 years old with over 100K miles on it, I shouldn't complain.

[TGO David]

Hybrids make sense to me for a lot of reasons.   Electric motors have a lot of advantages over traditional driveshaft locomotion.  The ability to reliably make gobs of torque and put it to the ground is fairly impossible to ignore if you just consider diesel-electric locomotives as an example.

That said, purely electric cars don't make sense to me for a lot of other reasons, the consequences of which are equally impossible to ignore.  Things such as...

... I can siphon gasoline or diesel fuel from containing vessels (fuel tanks, other cars, etc.) if push comes to shove.

... I can tote and transfer fuel, even propane if relevant, to a stranded vehicle fairly easily and quickly.

... My ability to do either of those things doesn't absolutely require the power grid.

 

I have joked with my Tesla-owning friends and asked them if their equivalent of a 5-gallon jerry can full of fuel is two long-haired cats in a box that you rub together to provide an emergency charge.

They very seriously told me that, no, Tesla brings a gasoline or diesel powered generator to you, towed behind a gasoline or diesel powered truck.

 

[OldIronFan]

13 minutes ago, TGO David said:

That said, purely electric cars don't make sense to me for a lot of other reasons, the consequences of which are equally impossible to ignore.  Things such as...

... I can siphon gasoline or diesel fuel from containing vessels (fuel tanks, other cars, etc.) if push comes to shove.

... I can tote and transfer fuel, even propane if relevant, to a stranded vehicle fairly easily and quickly.

 

This thinking makes zero sense to me. In over 30 years if driving I have run a car or truck out of gas exactly zero times.

In those 30 plus years on the road I have run one vehicle out of gas exactly one time. It was a 1970's motorcycle without a fuel level gauge. Only took once to figure out the range and reserve in the tank. Rode that bike another 15,000 miles or so and never once ran out again. 

My wife has been driving the same 30 plus years. Just asked her and she has run out of gas or been stranded with an empty tank exactly zero times as well.

If I am bugging out in a SHTF end of days scenario it wont be in an electric car either. That does not mean electric vehicles don't make sense, they just don't make sense in some limited scenarios. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by OldIronFan

[papa61]

47 minutes ago, OldIronFan said:

If I am bugging out in a SHTF end of days scenario it wont be in an electric car either. That does not mean electric vehicles don't make sense, they just don't make sense in some limited scenarios.

total electrics are not a viable solution for transportation. if they were, we wouldn't have government subsidies for buyers. when the tech catches up to real world situations it may be worth the added cost. what is available at this point is neither environmentally better nor as capable as ICE equipped vehicles. 

if bugging out I'd want a retired armored car with multi fuel capability, but one can dream can't one?

[TGO David]

43 minutes ago, OldIronFan said:

This thinking makes zero sense to me. In over 30 years if driving I have run a car or truck out of gas exactly zero times.

Congratulations.

 

43 minutes ago, OldIronFan said:

In those 30 plus years on the road I have run one vehicle out of gas exactly one time. It was a 1970's motorcycle without a fuel level gauge. Only took once to figure out the range and reserve in the tank. Rode that bike another 15,000 miles or so and never once ran out again. 

My wife has been driving the same 30 plus years. Just asked her and she has run out of gas or been stranded with an empty tank exactly zero times as well.

Again, congratulations.  Apply for a job with Tesla in their rescue squad.  With your impeccable attention to detail and careful forethought, you should be a shoe-in for someone to drive around in a Diesel F250 with a generator to rescue stranded Tesla motorists.

It has been decades since I ran out of gasoline in a car.  I am pretty sure I was a teenager and still new to it.  BUT... If I am traveling across country or am going to be off-roading, I take spare fuel with me.  Why?  Because I'm not an idiot.  And because things happen.  And because Murphy's law is a bitch.  Which goes back to me not being an idiot.

Now, for an anecdotal story:

Back in 2010, my wife and I decided to travel across country and see the American southwest.  We were driving my 2010 Toyota FJ Cruiser, which had the aerodynamic qualities of a flying cinderblock.  We were on Interstate 40 somewhere between San Antonio, TX and Albuquerque, NM and had been timing our fuel stops to maximize distance between them without cutting it needlessly close.  What we weren't expecting was to find that at two of the exits we were counting on, the gas stations had gone out of business and were abandoned.

After I coasted into the third exit quite a distance later, on what had to be fumes and prayers, I topped off the tank and immediately headed to the nearest Wal-Mart Supercenter to buy a pair of 5-gallon fuel cans to begin carrying with us.

That was my exposure to #### happening despite good planning.

 

Now, I recognize that your planning and attention to detail and maybe even the Fairy Godmother assigned to you are all far superior to mine since you've never been in that predicament, but for me that proved the necessity of being prepared for the unexpected.

And with a Tesla?  You don't get that option. 

 

43 minutes ago, OldIronFan said:

If I am bugging out in a SHTF end of days scenario it wont be in an electric car either. That does not mean electric vehicles don't make sense, they just don't make sense in some limited scenarios. 

I hope that you are given enough advance notice of that level of disaster that you can be sure that you're in the right vehicle.

 

[FUJIMO]

[FUJIMO]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

Hybrids make sense to me for a lot of reasons.   Electric motors have a lot of advantages over traditional driveshaft locomotion.  The ability to reliably make gobs of torque and put it to the ground is fairly impossible to ignore if you just consider diesel-electric locomotives as an example.

That said, purely electric cars don't make sense to me for a lot of other reasons, the consequences of which are equally impossible to ignore.  Things such as...

... I can siphon gasoline or diesel fuel from containing vessels (fuel tanks, other cars, etc.) if push comes to shove.

... I can tote and transfer fuel, even propane if relevant, to a stranded vehicle fairly easily and quickly.

... My ability to do either of those things doesn't absolutely require the power grid.

 

I have joked with my Tesla-owning friends and asked them if their equivalent of a 5-gallon jerry can full of fuel is two long-haired cats in a box that you rub together to provide an emergency charge.

They very seriously told me that, no, Tesla brings a gasoline or diesel powered generator to you, towed behind a gasoline or diesel powered truck.

 

[papa61]

never will understand that. just begging for a fuel mix disaster.

[Tuffus]

I bought a new 4 WD Silverado in December of 2019. It had $13,000 worth of incentives at that time. The dealer where I bought it contacted me several times willing to buy it back at $3,000 more than I paid for it. I declined their offer.

It came with a lifetime drivetrain warranty. I will switch to an electric vehicle when that warranty runs out.

[Johnny Rotten]

2 hours ago, TGO David said:

 

Now, for an anecdotal story:

Back in 2010, my wife and I decided to travel across country and see the American southwest.  We were driving my 2010 Toyota FJ Cruiser, which had the aerodynamic qualities of a flying cinderblock.  We were on Interstate 40 somewhere between San Antonio, TX and Albuquerque, NM and had been timing our fuel stops to maximize distance between them without cutting it needlessly close.  What we weren't expecting was to find that at two of the exits we were counting on, the gas stations had gone out of business and were abandoned.

After I coasted into the third exit quite a distance later, on what had to be fumes and prayers, I topped off the tank and immediately headed to the nearest Wal-Mart Supercenter to buy a pair of 5-gallon fuel cans to begin carrying with us.

I just did that road trip to Vegas, I was sweating bullets with 100 to E on my truck fuel gauge in that area...

[TGO David]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Rotten said:

I just did that road trip to Vegas, I was sweating bullets with 100 to E on my truck fuel gauge in that area...

It was insane how far those exits are apart from one another. 

[Erik88]

Honest question. Does anyone know how much oil is left to pull from the earth? A quick Google search says we have enough for 47 years. I do not know if this is accurate. That isn't a very long time. 

I get the arguments against all electric vehicles but I'm curious, if electric isn't the solution, what is? 

Most of us will be dead by then but I'm genuinely curious what our kids and grandkids will be using for transportation by that point. 

 

[TGO David]

35 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

Honest question. Does anyone know how much oil is left to pull from the earth? A quick Google search says we have enough for 47 years. I do not know if this is accurate. That isn't a very long time. 

I get the arguments against all electric vehicles but I'm curious, if electric isn't the solution, what is? 

Most of us will be dead by then but I'm genuinely curious what our kids and grandkids will be using for transportation by that point. 

 

No idea.  I've read that oil isn't as non-renewable as most folks claim or assume, though.  Which makes sense if you consider that oil is basically the result of decomposition and incredible pressure and thermal forces.  That stuff is still happening deep beneath us.

 

[Tuffus]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

Honest question. Does anyone know how much oil is left to pull from the earth? A quick Google search says we have enough for 47 years. I do not know if this is accurate. That isn't a very long time. 

I get the arguments against all electric vehicles but I'm curious, if electric isn't the solution, what is? 

Most of us will be dead by then but I'm genuinely curious what our kids and grandkids will be using for transportation by that point. 

 

That's why I keep riding my bicycle to stay in shape, in case it becomes my primary transportation. Of course I won't be here in 47 years.

[Capbyrd]

On 1/17/2022 at 10:20 PM, Eray said:

I just bought a new Maverick truck and paid $1100 extra to get a straight gasoline engine instead of a hybrid. I am too old to be the one experimenting with new technology. I don't even carry a smart phone, I'll just finish out what time I have left living in the past.

its not experimenting.  Many aspects of your non hybrid Maverick are just as new as hybrid technologies. 
 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Erik88 said:

Honest question. Does anyone know how much oil is left to pull from the earth? A quick Google search says we have enough for 47 years. I do not know if this is accurate. That isn't a very long time. 

I get the arguments against all electric vehicles but I'm curious, if electric isn't the solution, what is? 

Most of us will be dead by then but I'm genuinely curious what our kids and grandkids will be using for transportation by that point. 

 

The honest answer is that we don’t really know.  As David said, decomp is still happening along with pressure.  The earth is still producing the stuff.  Is it as a rate that replaces what we use or close?   I dunno.  And neither do the real people studying this from an unbiased point of view.  Science can’t even decide how long it takes to produce crude.  We used to think it was dinosaurs.   Now there are some that believe the contents of oil could be less than a millennium old.  We don’t have good answers is the point.  

[No_0ne]

5 hours ago, Erik88 said:

Honest question. Does anyone know how much oil is left to pull from the earth?

No.  There have been discussions about "peak oil", the point at which oil extraction peaks and begins declining for several decades.  Every time we seem to be getting close to that point, there's a new find, a new technology, or something that increases either our known oil reserves or our ability to extract more from sources already identified (fracking and the extraction of oil from things like the Canadian oil sands are two such examples).  As oil prices increase, the viability of extracting oil from  less "easy" sources becomes economically feasible and predicted shortages don't occur.  It is true that the geological processes that cause petroleum to be formed are continuous, however they're slow and certainly don't produce oil as fast as we pull it from the ground, so it's inevitable that we will someday face permanent shortages, but anybody who claims to know when that date will be is guessing at best ...