Electric Vehicles

[jpx2rk]

7 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

here's an idea I can get behind. In Taiwan lots of people drive scooters. They have a set up where you can simply swap out your drained battery for a freshly charged one.  Now if this concept could be passed over to cars you might have something workable.

 

 

I can just see the younger generation (today's kids) swapping out batteries.  There would be those electric scooters littering the highways & byways.  Talk about saving the planet.  LOL  I'm sure everyone has seen those "people" that have no business doing anything like swapping out a battery, much less using a hammer or screwdriver.  LOL

[bobsguns]

4 minutes ago, jpx2rk said:

I can just see the younger generation (today's kids) swapping out batteries.  There would be those electric scooters littering the highways & byways.  Talk about saving the planet.  LOL  I'm sure everyone has seen those "people" that have no business doing anything like swapping out a battery, much less using a hammer or screwdriver.  LOL

Hell, they can't change a tire, drive a stick or jump start a car. Absolutely worthless as a group, IMO.

[peejman]

18 hours ago, TennesseeCamper said:

I look at the electric vehicles as just another option for transport. There is some practicality  to having one especially when the next pipeline breaks cutting off our supplies or the lunatic’s shut down the Persian gulf again. 
 If you are a multiple vehicle family wouldn’t hurt to have one in the mix.

I don’t think they are going to save the world, because every lithium power pack is made with Chinese coal. 
 

I currently have a gas burning Ford truck and my wife drives a Honda CR-V. When her car gets worn out, I could see an electric car replacement. 
Now if they ever get hydrogen motors going, that’s going to save the planet! 

Hydrogen vehicles have been around for years. The problem with them will continue to be storing enough Hydrogen for reasonable range in a manner safe enough to make people comfortable. 

[gregintenn]

57 minutes ago, bobsguns said:

Hell, they can't change a tire, drive a stick or jump start a car. Absolutely worthless as a group, IMO.

You sure generalize a lot I have two sons (18 and 23) who both work construction, and I’ll wager either could work circles around you. One has an engineering degree and the other is still in high school.

[Omega]

10 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

here's an idea I can get behind. In Taiwan lots of people drive scooters. They have a set up where you can simply swap out your drained battery for a freshly charged one.  Now if this concept could be passed over to cars you might have something workable.

 

 

That would be ideal, but would have to be guarded here, or there wouldn't be any batteries left in the chargers (I know they are "locked" in).  A better way would be for the roads to have the same charging systems built in that they use to charge phones wirelessly, so you are charging while driving.  Long long time from now, it may be something that is feasible but no company is going to put out that kind of money here in the US, where scooters are not as popular, and car battery stations would take up a lot or room since more batteries would be required.

[Capbyrd]

I think that people don't understand that this is not the first time that electric and ICE vehicles were in major battle for market share.   In the early 20th century, ICE and electric cars were both trying to gain popularity over horses.  Infrastructure was easier to build out for ICE engines and greater range was achievable more easily but electric was cleaner and nicer to drive.  

We all know that ICE won out.   And so development of electric stalled for almost 80 years.  Electric has come a LONG way in the past two decades without major investment into development or infrastructure.  With all of the big companies getting behind it, we are going to see even more development and advancement and very quickly.   


I'm not opposed to electric.  But we have a ways to go before we will see it replace ICE completely.  Here is my personal take on what needs to happen for that day to arrive.  

1.  Infrastructure/range.  People aren't going to be opposed to adding an hour to a long distance trip.  But they are going to need those stations to be on their route and not have to majorly alter a route to get there.  I put range in here because it goes hand in hand.  The fewer stops you need to make, the better.  Back on the time thing, sure, you can fill up for your daily commute in 5 minutes.   But traveling with family on long distance trips, that's rarely a 5 minute stop.  It's a 15 or twenty minute stop for the women and kids to go to the bathroom and buy some drinks and snacks.   

2.  Repair costs.   If you kill an engine in most modern vehicles, you can usually buy good parts for $1500ish on average.   Pay a shop for install and we are talking about three to five thousand installed.  That engine was likely good for 200,000 miles plus if you did proper maintenance.   Battery replacement needs to be similar.   If that means that a battery is good for 100,000 miles, it needs to be 1500-2500 installed, so that over the same mileage, the same amount of repairs cost similar.   As long as EVs are more expensive to repair over the life, they are going to have a hard time completely killing ICE vehicles.  

 

Europe has already put mandates in place for no new ICE vehicle sales by a certain date (I think its 2030 or 2035).   Most of the major manufacturers sell in Europe too so they will be shifting a majority of their US market production to electric.   


Unless you are 75 or older, it's likely to happen in your lifetime that you cannot go to a new car dealer in the US and buy an ICE vehicle.  

[bobsguns]

3 hours ago, gregintenn said:

You sure generalize a lot I have two sons (18 and 23) who both work construction, and I’ll wager either could work circles around you. One has an engineering degree and the other is still in high school.

Since I'm now 63 years old, it wouldn't be too hard to "work circles" around me. Getting old is a bitch, but I digress. I'd also wager your boys had a good, solid upbringing instead of the usual one we see too often in the news stories, i.e. single mom families with the dad no where to be found. 

But yes, I am "generalizing" rather than speaking to specifics as I certainly don't know everyone. I can't count the number of flat tires I've changed for the under 30 crowd because they didn't have the first clue about how to do it. I bet your boys can list dozens of their classmates who fit that category, even if they themselves don't. Don't take it personal, just like I know there's gun people out there who have no business owning a gun. 

[TennesseeCamper]

Watch the “Long way up” and Long way down” series you will see electric motorcycles and Rivian electric trucks travel the length of North and South America.  Good scenery if nothing else and you see some electric vehicles in all conditions.  Granted they had lots of $$$ sponsors and a big support team.

https://youtu.be/611fw81BN98 
 

[Capbyrd]

18 minutes ago, TennesseeCamper said:

Watch the “Long way up” and Long way down” series you will see electric motorcycles and Rivian electric trucks travel the length of North and South America.  Good scenery if nothing else and you see some electric vehicles in all conditions.  Granted they had lots of $$$ sponsors and a big support team.

https://youtu.be/611fw81BN98 
 

The Rivian on Hell's Gate was really impressive.  
 

 

[Sleep profit]

With inflation the way it is and gas prices up up and away I may go green and use the Fred Flintstone method  put Dino in back 

[Erik88]

9 hours ago, bobsguns said:

Hell, they can't change a tire, drive a stick or jump start a car. Absolutely worthless as a group, IMO.

Which generation raised those kids?

[Johnny Rotten]

6 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

Which generation raised those kids?

must be Gen Z

[Garufa]

All I know is this Gen X boy is going to be stuck with having to buy a ridiculously priced electric vehicle when I’m on a fixed income in 20 years.

[Grayfox54]

Might as well face it. The day is coming when gas/diesel vehicles will be a thing of the past. Most likely because of government mandates due to the "greenies".  Or maybe the cost of fuel will kill 'em off. But the day is coming. 

Ford must think so since they're building a $5 Billion dollar plant here in the west end to make electric vehicles. 

[monkeylizard]

You need think more globally. The US no longer dictates the global car market the way we used to. As was pointed out above, EU nations will be all electric in the next 10-15 years. But that pales in comparison to the Chinese market. They never had the massive infrastructure built over the past 100+ years supporting ICE like we built, so they're building out their EV infrastructure like nobody's business. The EV market for China alone is big enough to make every manufacturer go all EV in the next two decades.

Edited November 19, 2021 by monkeylizard

[bobsguns]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

Which generation raised those kids?

Not mine, I'm 63................  

[FUJIMO]

I've got a couple ideas @Garufaif youre interested

Edited November 19, 2021 by FUJIMO

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, FUJIMO said:

I've got a couple ideas @Garufaif youre interested

[deerslayer]

22 hours ago, monkeylizard said:

If you can drive an ICE to a station where the power didn't go out, you can drive an EV to a charger where the power didn't go out.

I know, we have more gas stations than EV chargers, but that's changing . . . quickly

 

You can roll those dice.  

[maroonandwhite]

8 hours ago, TennesseeCamper said:

Watch the “Long way up” and Long way down” series you will see electric motorcycles and Rivian electric trucks travel the length of North and South America.  Good scenery if nothing else and you see some electric vehicles in all conditions.  Granted they had lots of $$$ sponsors and a big support team.

https://youtu.be/611fw81BN98 
 

I actually just finished watching this. I thoroughly enjoyed it and now want another bike. Not electric though. 

[mikegideon]

9 hours ago, Erik88 said:

Which generation raised those kids?

Oh, it's our fault. Should have slapped the #### out of you whippersnappers like our parents did to us  

[1gewehr]

There are several problems with Electric Vehicles beyond a lack of charging stations and range.

1)  Storage of electricity is VERY expensive.  That battery pack is the most expensive component, and like a gas engine, it will wear out.  Unlike a gas engine, it is much more difficult (and expensive) to rebuild that battery pack.

2)  Transportation of electricity is expensive, Power loss over long distances is significant even with the best high-tension lines.  And you can't just carry it around like a 5-gallon can of gas or a tank truck.

3)  Production of electricity still relies on coal, natural gas, or oil account for about 60% of US electrical production.  Nuclear is another 20%.  All 'renewable' sources account for the final 20%.  The current administration is trying to kill at least 30% of the current source of electricity. while increasing the demand (and thus the cost!).

Gasoline is with us for a LONG time to come.  At least until we all have a Mister Fusion at home or in our Deloreans.

[Johnny Rotten]

23 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

[bobsguns]

15 hours ago, 1gewehr said:

There are several problems with Electric Vehicles beyond a lack of charging stations and range.

1)  Storage of electricity is VERY expensive.  That battery pack is the most expensive component, and like a gas engine, it will wear out.  Unlike a gas engine, it is much more difficult (and expensive) to rebuild that battery pack.

2)  Transportation of electricity is expensive, Power loss over long distances is significant even with the best high-tension lines.  And you can't just carry it around like a 5-gallon can of gas or a tank truck.

3)  Production of electricity still relies on coal, natural gas, or oil account for about 60% of US electrical production.  Nuclear is another 20%.  All 'renewable' sources account for the final 20%.  The current administration is trying to kill at least 30% of the current source of electricity. while increasing the demand (and thus the cost!).

Gasoline is with us for a LONG time to come.  At least until we all have a Mister Fusion at home or in our Deloreans.

Allow me to add the current impossible ability to recycle electric car lithium batteries. What to do with them then? Pile them up? Let them leak like nuclear waste? What?

[RED333]

5 hours ago, bobsguns said:

What to do with them then? Pile them up? Let them leak like nuclear waste? What?

Lithium is pricey to recycle and not easy

https://www.dnkpower.com/lithium-battery-recycling/

Have you seen the videos of a lithium battery do a rapid discharge? Just think about a car battery doing that. When the Fire department rolls up on a car fire the first thing they do is determine if it has a lithium battery. Water and electrical energy just do not play well with each other and will punish those that try to get involved.