Electric Vehicles

[monkeylizard]

16 minutes ago, Erich said:

except for those pesky rear and mid engine engine cars

 

But those lose the trunk (or most of it) to get the frunk. EVs have both.

I was mostly referring to future design possibilities that the buying public isn't ready for yet. There are some pretty wild ways to design a transportation device when the motors are in the wheels and the energy storage (aka "battery) can be incorporated into the structure of the car. There are some very cool lab-only inventions in the works now with carbon lattices storing electrons. Think of parts like the frame of the seats, the steering column, the door panels, the headliner panels, etc doing double duty as batteries. You can't do that with gasoline.

Tech like that is lab-only now, and will be terribly expensive in its first applications outside the lab, but some day we'll see some amazingly cool takes on how to design a car using these coming technologies.

[RKRider1954]

I think it's a shame that hydrogen was never considered as an alternative energy source. From what I understand, it produces as much horsepower as the gasoline powered internal combustion engine with zero carbon emissions.

[Erich]

4 minutes ago, monkeylizard said:

But those lose the trunk (or most of it) to get the frunk. EVs have both.
 

I think you didn’t catch I was kidding. But for what it’s worth, some mid engines do have trunks. Smallish, but hey. 

I had to give up the 36 gallon tank option for my hybrid that the ICE only truck has. The batteries have to go somewhere. They are not immune. But yes, should be better with better battery tech. 

 

[peejman]

16 minutes ago, RKRider1954 said:

I think it's a shame that hydrogen was never considered as an alternative energy source. From what I understand, it produces as much horsepower as the gasoline powered internal combustion engine with zero carbon emissions.

 Perfect combustion of hydrogen yields only water. Imperfect combustion adds CO2, NOx, and other stuff depending on the impurities in the air and temperature of combustion. 

But where do you get pure gaseous H2?  You can use lots of electricity to split water, or a wide variety of chemical reactions that generate waste products and require lots of aftertreatment to purify it. 

[Erich]

On 7/19/2022 at 7:53 PM, Garufa said:

…,EV’s are expensive.  Regular vehicles are expensive.  Not everyone can just run out and buy a rolling iPhone and expect to keep it forever.  That battery is going to go bad at some point… and it’s going to be expensive to replace. 

While combustion engine vehicles are pretty much disposable, they can still be made to run for decades, as long as they don’t have a bunch of complicated electronics, or at least replacement part cannot be found for….,

That top item and cost, is far too true. The second piece, the one most will refuse to recognize, is there is a large degree of designed obsolescence at work. Not the batteries as such , more the overall operating system.  There is no corporate imperative to design and build to last, the profitability lacks in that model. The fact that American manufactures will not offer a factory extended warranty past 8 years tells you exactly how long they think you’ll make it, or when they will start to discontinue parts to squeek by the 10 year federal requirement.

As someone that just bought a new vehicle, I struggled this time, haven’t really had that in the past.

The frightening thing with cost is the increasing rate of change over a relatively short time,  with an inflection point starting between the  2014-2015 MY. When you look at industry news around focus group studies specific to cost, features, and subscription services it will make you really fear what’s to come along with all the improvements and positives in new tech. 

 

[Omega]

3 hours ago, Erich said:

That top item and cost, is far too true. The second piece, the one most will refuse to recognize, is there is a large degree of designed obsolescence at work. Not the batteries as such , more the overall operating system.  There is no corporate imperative to design and build to last, the profitability lacks in that model. The fact that American manufactures will not offer a factory extended warranty past 8 years tells you exactly how long they think you’ll make it, or when they will start to discontinue parts to squeek by the 10 year federal requirement.

As someone that just bought a new vehicle, I struggled this time, haven’t really had that in the past.

The frightening thing with cost is the increasing rate of change over a relatively short time,  with an inflection point starting between the  2014-2015 MY. When you look at industry news around focus group studies specific to cost, features, and subscription services it will make you really fear what’s to come along with all the improvements and positives in new tech. 

 

The real reason we don't have lightbulbs that last forever.

 

[Erich]

15 minutes ago, Omega said:

The real reason we don't have lightbulbs that last forever.

 

That plays a bit tinfoil hat. I’d think if it’s a question, look at a warranty schedule showing time and mileage cost grids.

As the future. I wish we could choose the good parts. Leave out the parts board members all add. The Cox survey references a 25% survey sample who said they were ok with this revenue model:

GM is hoping to increase profits by offering a wide variety of in-vehicle features through a subscription model – a strategy that will be enabled by its new connected Vehicle Intelligence Platform and Ultifi end-to-end software platform. The automaker’s own internal research goes against Cox Automotive’s, with the automaker saying its customers are eager to bundle vehicle features together in monthly subscription models. GM’s own survey on customer reactions to subscription services included thousands of participants – more than Cox’s rather low sample size.

“Our research indicates that with the right mix of compelling offerings, customers are willing to spend $135 per month on average for products and services,” Alan Wexler, GM’s senior VP of innovation and growth, told TechCrunch in an interview last year.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/04/just-25-percent-of-car-buyers-willing-to-pay-for-subscription-services/amp/

[gregintenn]

I see a future where nobody but us hillbillies out in the sticks owns a car. I picture an Uber like service that utilizes self driving automobiles. They come pick you up and drop you off for a fee, and go charge themselves when the battery gets low. I’d like to invest in the front end of this technology.

 

. Gov can track, tax, and control where you go. It’ll be awesome!

Edited July 22, 2022 by gregintenn

[FUJIMO]

35 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I see a future where nobody but us hillbillies out in the sticks owns a car. I picture an Uber like service that utilizes self driving automobiles. They come pick you up and drop you off for a fee, and go charge themselves when the battery gets low. I’d like to invest in the front end of this technology.

 

. Gov can track, tax, and control where you go. It’ll be awesome!

I'm well on my way then

[deerslayer]

54 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I see a future where nobody but us hillbillies out in the sticks owns a car. I picture an Uber like service that utilizes self driving automobiles. They come pick you up and drop you off for a fee, and go charge themselves when the battery gets low. I’d like to invest in the front end of this technology.

 

. Gov can track, tax, and control where you go. It’ll be awesome!

So my all-time favorite Arnold movie may not be too far-fetched?

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by deerslayer

[Erich]

3 hours ago, gregintenn said:

. Gov can track, tax, and control where you go. It’ll be awesome!

They got the first two covered already. The 3rd is more of a work in progress.

 

[tng27]

All this debate gas vs electric may well be a waste of breath in the end

“The World Economic Forum (WEF) published a paper that calls for an end to “wasteful” private car ownership in favor of communal sharing to lessen global demands for precious metals and fossil fuels.”

https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2022/07/22/world-economic-forum-ditch-your-car-and-save-the-planet/

[Garufa]

9 minutes ago, tng27 said:

All this debate gas vs electric may well be a waste of breath in the end

“The World Economic Forum (WEF) published a paper that calls for an end to “wasteful” private car ownership in favor of communal sharing to lessen global demands for precious metals and fossil fuels.”

https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2022/07/22/world-economic-forum-ditch-your-car-and-save-the-planet/

Is Breitbart still a thing?  I cured myself of that rubbish years ago.

[tng27]

12 minutes ago, Garufa said:

Is Breitbart still a thing?  I cured myself of that rubbish years ago.

Call it what you will, they’re right this time.   Feel free to go to the source

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/12/goodbye-car-ownership-hello-clean-air-this-is-the-future-of-transport/

Edited July 23, 2022 by tng27

[Daniel]

On 7/19/2022 at 8:10 PM, RKRider1954 said:

HORSE
AND BUGGY
FOREVER

[-boatman-]

On 7/22/2022 at 8:01 PM, tng27 said:

All this debate gas vs electric may well be a waste of breath in the end

“The World Economic Forum (WEF) published a paper that calls for an end to “wasteful” private car ownership in favor of communal sharing to lessen global demands for precious metals and fossil fuels.”

https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2022/07/22/world-economic-forum-ditch-your-car-and-save-the-planet/

So how do I get a boat to the water, horses to a trail head, or tow my Jeep to a offroad park? Who should I call to pull these trailers?

[Garufa]

37 minutes ago, -boatman- said:

So how do I get a boat to the water, horses to a trail head, or tow my Jeep to a offroad park? Who should I call to pull these trailers?

Some would say use your horses.

[btq96r]

On 7/21/2022 at 7:05 PM, Erich said:

As the future. I wish we could choose the good parts. Leave out the parts board members all add. The Cox survey references a 25% survey sample who said they were ok with this revenue model:

Monthly subscriptions are where the vehicle companies are hoping the gold is.  They will be very aggressive in this area to recoup the costs of converting plants and supply chains to the EV side.  Alongside and after that, it'll be to prop up the share price and distribute dividends, or keep a growth story alive.

What's worse is that 25% accepting is going to creep up as generations shift.  Gen Z and Millennials are used to subscription models for plenty of things as a normal part of their life.  Gen X has prefected the art of griping and moving on.  Microsoft Office becoming a subscription instead of a new version you could ride out buying every other release is a great example, your smartphone being amortized as part of your monthly service plan is a other.  The C-Suites aren't waiting for the boomers to exit gracefully before they flip this switch.

They don't need as many people willing to endure a subscription model as some may think, and 25% now isn't a bad metric for where the technology is.  The ones who hate it will be drug along kicking and screaming for lack of better options once they have between 50-55% compliance.  Griping in a survey is different from voting with your wallet.

The future has a lot of cool stuff we haven't even conceptualized yet.  It will also have the same style of merchants finding creative, often insidious ways to get you to fork over money to them just like it's been since antiquity.

Edited July 24, 2022 by btq96r

[Moped]

At some point, we are going to be subscriptioned to financial ruin, though. This is not a trend I like at all.

Example, we cut the cable a couple of years ago for a substantial savings. That's been creeping back into cable territory as subscription rates have crept up over the last two years.  And yes I know it's our choice, but is it really? 

As for what I want on a car, well I can be pretty basic. I don't need a lot of whistles and bells.  A radio, AC/heat, adjustable mirrors and a comfortable seat, go a long way.  Also enough engine and transmission to pull my trailer comfortably, is all I ask for from a truck.  Don't care about an onboard GPS, hotspots, or connected service to someone in New Delhi, so they might not make as much money on me as they hope.   

[FUJIMO]

29 minutes ago, Moped said:

At some point, we are going to be subscriptioned to financial ruin, though. This is not a trend I like at all.

Example, we cut the cable a couple of years ago for a substantial savings. That's been creeping back into cable territory as subscription rates have crept up over the last two years.  And yes I know it's our choice, but is it really? 

As for what I want on a car, well I can be pretty basic. I don't need a lot of whistles and bells.  A radio, AC/heat, adjustable mirrors and a comfortable seat, go a long way.  Also enough engine and transmission to pull my trailer comfortably, is all I ask for from a truck.  Don't care about an onboard GPS, hotspots, or connected service to someone in New Delhi, so they might not make as much money on me as they hope.   

This is a very good point. Nothing I own is newer than 2012 and I am A OK with that. I recall my BIL bitchin about crank windows on his old VW Jetta a couple years back and the fact it didn't have a usb charging port, mp3, etc etc etc. Mind you it got 50 mpg but this was before Joey's pump pounding. So he sold it for something with more creature comforts and half as good mpg. He now regrets the choice he made and I do my best to remind him of it every time I talk to him

 

[RED333]

39 minutes ago, Moped said:

As for what I want on a car, well I can be pretty basic. I don't need a lot of whistles and bells.  A radio, AC/heat, adjustable mirrors and a comfortable seat, go a long way.  Also enough engine and transmission to pull my trailer comfortably, is all I ask for from a truck.  Don't care about an onboard GPS, hotspots, or connected service to someone in New Delhi, so they might not make as much money on me as they hope.

This is me, when I bought my truck that I looked 2 years for, my daughter got in and asked how to let the window down, I said "use the crank handle". She then asked how to adjust the mirrors, I said " let the window down and use your hand". Vinyl seats and floor cover, AC, Am, FM no CD radio.

As far as enough power to pull a load. 2016 GMC 3/4 ton 6.0 gas engine, 4 wheel drive, 2 door, long bed, just plain Jane basic truck, no matter how I drive, 14 miles a gallon. Foot to the floor or drive like a old man, hauling 16000 pounds, 14 miles to the gallon is it.

No I do not drive it a lot, but it s there when I need it and it is payed for!

Edited July 24, 2022 by RED333
Because I can

[FUJIMO]

[A.J. Holst]

I think I want a the new 2022 Hummer EV.

9000# curb weight.

$110k starting price.

Hey, Mayor Pete, that's almost like buying two @ $65k...

 

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, RED333 said:

This is me, when I bought my truck that I looked 2 years for, my daughter got in and asked how to let the window down, I said "use the crank handle". She then asked how to adjust the mirrors, I said " let the window down and use your hand". Vinyl seats and floor cover, AC, Am, FM no CD radio.

As far as enough power to pull a load. 2016 GMC 3/4 ton 6.0 gas engine, 4 wheel drive, 2 door, long bed, just plain Jane basic truck, no matter how I drive, 14 miles a gallon. Foot to the floor or drive like a old man, hauling 16000 pounds, 14 miles to the gallon is it.

No I do not drive it a lot, but it s there when I need it and it is payed for!

I found my kid a nice 07 GMC truck here on this forum for a very fair price. 40k miles, and just like new! He likes the truck, but hates the manual windows. LOL! I was married for years before I ever had a vehicle with power windows. I’ve replaced several power windows motor assemblies. I’ve never had a problem with hand cranks that grease wouldn’t fix.

[Johnny Rotten]

17 minutes ago, A.J. Holst said:

I think I want a the new 2022 Hummer EV.

9000# curb weight.

$110k starting price.

Hey, Mayor Pete, that's almost like buying two @ $65k...

 

Here's your price point all over 200k with dealer mark up

Used 2022 GMC HUMMER EV Edition 1 For Sale $249,998 | Cars.com

1000HP/11000 foot pounds of torque.< this is my shocked face for 7500# towing capacity and 1300# payload.