Baldwin shoots two on movie set, accidental misfire???

[Alleycat72]

40 minutes ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

The terminology is inconsistent on the news clips but live round now is only a real complete round I guess.

Question: without looking at the gun pointing at you how do you easily know if the gun has blanks, dummy rounds, or live rounds in a replica gun like that. No swing out cylinder and just a loading gate access.

I guess dummy rounds so camera can see bullets showing out the cylinder. Crimped blanks would look odd.

Are the dummy and blanks different enough from the back?

Snap caps are red for example

 

You take each round out and look.

[mikegideon]

1 hour ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

The terminology is inconsistent on the news clips but live round now is only a real complete round I guess.

Question: without looking at the gun pointing at you how do you easily know if the gun has blanks, dummy rounds, or live rounds in a replica gun like that. No swing out cylinder and just a loading gate access.

I guess dummy rounds so camera can see bullets showing out the cylinder. Crimped blanks would look odd.

Are the dummy and blanks different enough from the back?

Snap caps are red for example

 

I just took this picture. This is my Italian replica Peacemaker with a round ready to advance to the firing position...

[joe4vol]

From some of the videos I have watched the dummy rounds have bb’s instead of powder. Have to shake them for the rattle. I have also seen dummy rounds with a hole drilled in the side. 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Best practice would be only an empty gun brought on set personally by armorer from a secure place. Then checked and loaded as needed under observation by a second assistant armorer or someone else trained on gun to double check. And for good measure the actors involved invited to observe.

Scene over? Armorer collects, empties and secures gun till needed again.

This situation where the gun was picked up off a cart by a director and handed to the actor is insane.

Someone or multiple people need jail time. 

 

 

[bobsguns]

2 hours ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

Are the dummy and blanks different enough from the back?

No, both rims are the same. Blanks will have a live primer though. 

[bobsguns]

17 minutes ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

Best practice would be only an empty gun brought on set personally by armorer from a secure place. Then checked and loaded as needed under observation by a second assistant armorer or someone else trained on gun to double check. And for good measure the actors involved invited to observe.

Scene over? Armorer collects, empties and secures gun till needed again.

This situation where the gun was picked up off a cart by a director and handed to the actor is insane.

Someone or multiple people need jail time. 

This is where the rookie female armorer failed miserably. A locking bag or range bag would've prevented all of this BS, IMO. All guns should've been under her control from her home to the set to the actor's hands. She failed all three of these criterion. 

Todays news:

News Story

Quote

Hannah Gutierrez Reed spoke out to deny certain rumors about the on-set shooting involving Alec Baldwin that left cinematographer Halyna Hutchins dead.

Gutierrez Reed, the armorer on the set of "Rust" who was responsible for the safety and handling of firearms on the set, is a main focus of the investigation into the death of Hutchins, according to Santa Fe County Sheriff Adan Mendoza. She was one of the very few people who handled the gun prior to Baldwin discharging it on set last Thursday. 

However, in a statement made through her attorneys that was provided to Fox News, New Mexico-based lawyers Jason Bowles and Robert Gorence, Gutierrez Reed blamed rushed conditions on the low-budget set for the tragic mishap. She also disputed rumors that the crew used live ammunition for target practice and denied responsibility for two discharges that happened previously, according to the statement.

"Safety is Hannah’s number one priority on set," her attorneys said in the statement. "Ultimately this set would never have been compromised if live ammo were not introduced. Hannah has no idea where the live rounds came from."

 

As for the shooting that resulted in the death of Hutchins and left director Joel Souza wounded, Mendoza said during a press conference Wednesday that a live round was recovered from the director’s shoulder. In addition to that bullet, investigators found 500 rounds of ammunition, including a mix of blanks, dummy rounds and what appeared to be live rounds.

In an affidavit, Gutierrez Reed previously told investigators that there should be no live ammo on the set at all. However, given the evidence found at this time, including live ammunition, Mendoza said this week that he believes that to be "not an accurate statement." 

So there was indeed live rds found on the set. She failed that part horribly.

She failed to control the guns 24/7 & one got loaded with a live rd. She failed that part miserably.

If the crew were playing with the gins, using live ammo or blanks (doesn't matter), then she had no control over the guns. She failed miserably again.

"Rushed conditions" or not, the guns should've been under her physical control until she handed the gun to Baldwin, NOT having the Asst Director handing him the gun. This was her final & worst failing, IMO. 

I agree that multiple people should have felony convictions from this goat screw.

[Jeb48]

Was the armorer even present during the shooting? Seems like the guns should be locked up when she is not present. 

[bobsguns]

8 hours ago, Jeb48 said:

Was the armorer even present during the shooting? Seems like the guns should be locked up when she is not present. 

Seems to be no clear answer on this it appears. This would be the whole point of having an armorer, IMO. The armorer should have had the guns locked away until the armorer was physically on the set, IMO. This should be laid entirely at Baldwin's feet as he was the producer. He wanted to cheap-out & that's exactly what he did. He should pay heavily for that, IMO. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by bobsguns

[10-Ring]

[gregintenn]

I want to know why Baldwin isn’t in jail.

[Alleycat72]

Lets not forget that sometimes the kids take the car without permission. 

[Defender]

Gotta love Monday morning, armchair quarterbacking, lol.  I do it too though.  Too many unknowns here to suit me.  What’s common sense to us here on a gun board might not be to the Hollywood scene.  I’m curious as to the role of the armorer on a movie set. Is there an industry standard?   I think charging the armorer might hinge on what her role was and did she criminally deviate from that role.  Then also us the budget issues.  All accounts speak of a budget film with everything rushed and many safety issues.  The one thing clear to me so far is that the one who fired the shot should be charged.  All else depends on this or that.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Defender

[10-Ring]

14 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I want to know why Baldwin isn’t in jail.

He has flat out said that it was the prop master's fault for handing him a hot gun.  If only he had checked it when it was handed to him, like any of us common gun folk would have done...  He acts like an entitled brat, quick to point a finger and absolutely refuses to accept any responsibility.  He and the prop master were both negligent, I hope they both face charges and do time. 

[mikegideon]

33 minutes ago, 10-Ring said:

He has flat out said that it was the prop master's fault for handing him a hot gun.  If only he had checked it when it was handed to him, like any of us common gun folk would have done...  He acts like an entitled brat, quick to point a finger and absolutely refuses to accept any responsibility.  He and the prop master were both negligent, I hope they both face charges and do time. 

The law says he is responsible. And so, the other excuses really don't matter. They either enforce the law or they don't.

[OLDNEWBIE]

If the Armorer was not present and was bypassed in some way.

Just like a stolen gun is used in a crime.

It is possible she is not at fault.

Not enough info yet to hang anyone.

[Grunt67]

The Sheriff said this make take weeks or months to sort out. I'll wait until the facts are in before I hang anybody. Too much confusion on who did or didn't do what.

JMHO

[No_0ne]

3 hours ago, gregintenn said:

I want to know why Baldwin isn’t in jail.

 

17 hours ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

Someone or multiple people need jail time. 

 

 

 

17 hours ago, bobsguns said:

I agree that multiple people should have felony convictions from this goat screw.

I doubt that, in the end, anyone does time over this. At worst, I would bet that anyone convicted in any criminal trial receives probation, or some sort of community service.  The subsequent civil trials will be another matter ...

[gregintenn]

2 hours ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

If the Armorer was not present and was bypassed in some way.

Just like a stolen gun is used in a crime.

It is possible she is not at fault.

Not enough info yet to hang anyone.

 

1 hour ago, Grunt67 said:

The Sheriff said this make take weeks or months to sort out. I'll wait until the facts are in before I hang anybody. Too much confusion on who did or didn't do what.

JMHO

Aren’t we pretty solid on who pulled the trigger?

[Grayfox54]

15 hours ago, Jeb48 said:

Was the armorer even present during the shooting? Seems like the guns should be locked up when she is not present. 

That's my big question and its never been answered. 

I heard the other day that she was actually doing two jobs. Armorer and a regular prop person. Again we're back to the cost cutting thing. which seems to be the root of all of this. 

Bottom line is that Baldwin pulled the trigger. That bullet is on him. 

[Grunt67]

9 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

 

Aren’t we pretty solid on who pulled the trigger?

Yep!

[bobsguns]

38 minutes ago, No_0ne said:

I doubt that, in the end, anyone does time over this. At worst, I would bet that anyone convicted in any criminal trial receives probation, or some sort of community service. 

I agree, they'll all weasel out of this one way or another. Rarely does a famous person get actual jail time.

[bobsguns]

4 hours ago, gregintenn said:

I want to know why Baldwin isn’t in jail.

Seriously??????

Fame, money & leftist politics on his side & you're wondering why he isn't arrested?   

Allow me to suggest you read up on Ted "where'd I park my car?" Kennedy sometime. Not only was he not arrested nor charged, he got re-elected. There's others like that but he tops the list, IMO. 

[gregintenn]

2 minutes ago, bobsguns said:

Seriously??????

Fame, money & leftist politics on his side & you're wondering why he isn't arrested?   

Allow me to suggest you read up on Ted "where'd I park my car?" Kennedy sometime. Not only was he not arrested nor charged, he got re-elected. There's others like that but he tops the list, IMO. 

Yeah I’m serious. I know why, but where is the public outrage?

Even here on a gun forum, we seem divided on who to blame.

[Grayfox54]

5 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Yeah I’m serious. I know why, but where is the public outrage?

He's a liberal, a gun hater and a movie star. Most everybody and MSM feels sorry for him. 

The only outrage is coming from people like us who know guns. 

[bobsguns]

15 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Yeah I’m serious. I know why, but where is the public outrage?

Even here on a gun forum, we seem divided on who to blame.

Well, many in here are using a "wait & see" point of view. Clearly that's their right to do so.

As for public outrage, is there any outrage when there's 50 shootings over a weekend in Chicago? Or Baltimore? Not really, other than the gun grabbers using that as a bloody prop for their agenda. As much as Baldwin has ridiculed Tump on tv, you honestly think the media is going to roast him? They're going to cover for him much like they cover for Pedo Biden's dementia. Doesn't make it right, but that's what it is, IMO.