Baldwin shoots two on movie set, accidental misfire???

[Grayfox54]

The first click happens within the first 1/4 " of hammer movement. At that point the spring does not have enough energy to fire the primer.

There are several videos on You Tube that show this and directly prove Baldwin's claim is not only false, but  impossible.

The old empty chamber under the hammer is in the event that the gun is dropped. But it would have to land directly on the hammer with considerable force to fire a cartridge. 

 

[Capbyrd]

22 hours ago, bersaguy said:

At one point someone said no one has ever been shot and killed with live ammo on a movie set is a lie. Brandon Lee was shot and killed by a prop gun during the movie making The Crow.

Kinda, but not exactly.   Lee was killed by a squib that was pushed out by a blank.  It wasn't a live round in the purest sense of the term. 

[Grayfox54]

In the 1980s an up and coming young actor, Jon-Erik Huxem, accidentally killed himself playing around with a .44 magnum loaded with blanks. 

[aknifemaker]

[FUJIMO]

[GlockSpock]

A few "duplicate" topics merged.

Also, this was released yesterday. I'll be casually thumbing through it at some point.

https://www.env.nm.gov/occupational_health_safety/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2022/04/2022-04-19-NM-OSHA-Rust-Summary-of-Investigation.pdf

[Grayfox54]

I saw on the news earlier today that the state of New Mexico has fined Rust Productions the maximum amount allowable of $136,000. 

Its clear from the documents Glock Spock posted that this entire production was a total cluster with most of the fault lying on the head people. It was an ill run and dangerous work place and the bosses just didn't seem to care. 

But I still maintain the Baldwin pulled the trigger and final blame falls on him. 

[RED333]

5 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

But I still maintain the Baldwin pulled the trigger and final blame falls on him. 

Yep, and the sad part is baldwin will not get charged.

[Grayfox54]

On a good note, it does appear that the investigation has cleared Hanna Gutierrez-Reed of any wrong doing.  Its sad to see that the only gun professional on the set tried to do her job, but had her hands tied by her bosses. But don't be surprised if they try to use her as a scape goat. 

As for Baldwin, no he probably won't be charged. There's too much blame to go around. However, his public image, credibility and reputation are shot to hell. He will always be known as the man who murdered someone on set. Hopefully, he will be sued into bankruptcy and never work again. 

[Snaveba]

OHSA pretty much said the Rust leadership screwed the pooch. It amazes me how groups or corporations try to save a buck by skimping on safety. I’m gonna guess that it wouldn’t  have cost them 15-20k more to allow Hanna to do her job as the Armorer as she should have been allowed to do. Instead of spending a little bit more on safety, finishing the movie and hopefully making money, there is no movie and the investors are out money. 

[xtriggerman]

On 2/20/2022 at 5:31 PM, Grayfox54 said:

The first click happens within the first 1/4 " of hammer movement. At that point the spring does not have enough energy to fire the primer.

There are several videos on You Tube that show this and directly prove Baldwin's claim is not only false, but  impossible.

The old empty chamber under the hammer is in the event that the gun is dropped. But it would have to land directly on the hammer with considerable force to fire a cartridge. 

 

 ^ exactly right. I would love to see actual statistics of a 4 click SAA that fire a cartridge from a fall onto the half cock position. Basically, I dout that has ever happened with any repeatability. Not to say its impossible but the strike to the back of the hammer would have to be very precise and with enough force to snap off the trigger sear tip that is buried in the half cock enclosed notch and still be sudden enough to light the primer. When I was a teen I tried to ignite a primed 06 casing in a number of ways with a nail,punch and any way you could think of outside of a real in the gun FP. Nothing worked except putting fire to the casing until the heat ignited it. I'll all ways remember how that fired primer looked sticking out of the wood paneling where it embedded its self after the "bang" scared the crap out of me! 

[Chucktshoes]

Alec Baldwin is being charged with involuntary manslaughter. 
 

https://www.tmz.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-involuntary-manslaughter-rust-fatal-shooting-charges-district-attorney/?adid=social-fb

[crc4]

8 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Alec Baldwin is being charged with involuntary manslaughter. 
 

https://www.tmz.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-involuntary-manslaughter-rust-fatal-shooting-charges-district-attorney/?adid=social-fb

That's the only charge possible considering the evidence. Now comes the plea deal and resulting civil suit which will prove more interesting.

[Chucktshoes]

25 minutes ago, crc4 said:

That's the only charge possible considering the evidence. Now comes the plea deal and resulting civil suit which will prove more interesting.

I’m not sure Baldwin will take a plea. O don’t think his ego will allow it. 

[Erik88]

3 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

I’m not sure Baldwin will take a plea. O don’t think his ego will allow it. 

He won't even admit to pulling the trigger which we all know is BS. 

[crc4]

26 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

He won't even admit to pulling the trigger which we all know is BS. 

Unlucky for Baldwin this part of New Mexico doesn't care for Hollywood knotheaded liberals. All he needs to do is smirk at the trial as he can't help but doing and he's toast in the juror's eyes.

I look forward to a trial and watching him cry on the stand.

[-boatman-]

I really didn't think it would ever happen.

[Lumber_Jack]

So as an actor if you were in a movie set and an “armoror” gave you a gun presumed safe and the producer told you to point it at the camera and shoot, how are you responsible for the death of someone? 
 

as a producer you hire people to perform tasks  one of those tasks is firearms safety, that person failed. Why is she not on trial? 
 

I can see some level of culpability on the producer side but I fail to see how one iota of responsibility is on Baldwin as an actor  

 

[Erik88]

22 minutes ago, Lumber_Jack said:

So as an actor if you were in a movie set and an “armoror” gave you a gun presumed safe and the producer told you to point it at the camera and shoot, how are you responsible for the death of someone? 

Baldwin was also one of the producers for this show. There is a process they are supposed to follow where the actor confirms the gun is cold. That process was not followed. 

I agree with you that it does seem odd no one else is being charged. 

[Hozzie]

The Armorer was also charged with involuntary manslaughter.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-charged-involuntary-manslaughter-fatal-rust-shooting-district-attorney

Edited January 19, 2023 by Hozzie

[crc4]

Firearms are legally held to a higher standard of care due to firearms being inherently dangerous instruments. 

Unintentional injuries or death are almost always the result of negligence. With firearms that usually constitutes criminal negligence.

The charge is correct. Baldwin is guilty of criminal negligence resulting in an involuntary manslaughter charge.

This should be a lesson for all gun owners.

Edited January 19, 2023 by crc4

[deerslayer]

I think I read earlier that three people are being charged.  
I don’t know what movie set procedures are, but if anyone hands me a gun, the first thing I do is make sure it’s empty.  If I get hired to play the bad guy in the next Jack Ryan movie (probably not gonna happen), I’ll still immediately check any gun a prop guy hands me.  If they don’t like it, they can fire me.  I’m an instructor and competitive shooter and this mentality is in my bone marrow.  Baldwin, probably not so much, but I doubt he’s had much training and detests guns anyway.  

Edited January 19, 2023 by deerslayer

[monkeylizard]

In New Mexico a conviction on Involuntary Manslaughter carries the penalty of 0 days to 18 months in jail. Even if convicted by a jury, it's possible the judge will release him with time served, or he/she could stick him with the full 18 months.

 

Either way, it would make him a convicted felon. He shouldn't pick up a gun for the rest of his life, but I doubt the BATFE would go after him if he's seen in a future movie with a gun in his hand.

[Erik88]

4 minutes ago, monkeylizard said:

In New Mexico a conviction on Involuntary Manslaughter carries the penalty of 0 days to 18 months in jail. Even if convicted by a jury, it's possible the judge will release him with time served, or he/she could stick him with the full 18 months

Because a firearm was used the penalty becomes a mandatory 5 years in prison under NM law. I have a hard time believing he'll be convicted though. 

[Lumber_Jack]

1 hour ago, Hozzie said:

The Armorer was also charged with involuntary manslaughter.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-charged-involuntary-manslaughter-fatal-rust-shooting-district-attorney

Ok well that makes sense.