Being in compliance?

[Titansfan]

I work for DCS (yes that department that takes the kids). I work in the field of juvenile justice. For the past several months, the department has been working on an accreditation in which my region passed with a very high score. As for our personnel files, we had to sign a form stating that I would not be in possession of a firearm or alcohol while working or on the job. My normal work week is M-F 8 am to 4:30 pm. However, as a case manager I am 'available' even after normal working hours.

I don't carry on the job and don't want to. I do transport clients and/or family members often and don't want to be a newspaper headline where a client found a case manager's handgun. Also the state run youth development centers (Somerville, Nashville, Pikeville and Dandridge), a vehicle can be search without suspician or probable cause.

Now for the question. I work the county I live in, it's good and bad. The good, I run into clients/family members at the store and knock out a face to face contact. The bad, I run into clients/family members at the store. I have been carrying all weekend, been geocaching this weekend. Ran into a client and his mother in the store. They had a concern and it was resolved in about 1 minute of conversation. Thankfully, my gun was out in the truck, but if I had it one me (which I could since I have a permit) and the mother and/or client saw it, I could have had problems.

Wondering if I should bring this to the NRA's attention?

[TGO David]

I love my J-frame in situations like this. Pocket carry is perfect when you don't want people spotting your firearm.

But to answer your question with a question, what do you hope to accomplish by bringing this to the NRA's attention?

[Buzz]

I work for DCS...

Thankfully, my gun was out in the truck, but if I had it one me (which I could since I have a permit) and the mother and/or client saw it, I could have had problems.

Frankly, I think this is why you should always carry concealed.

Run into somebody from work while carrying... no big deal.

[Titansfan]

I love my J-frame in situations like this. Pocket carry is perfect when you don't want people spotting your firearm.

But to answer your question with a question, what do you hope to accomplish by bringing this to the NRA's attention?

I carry a 9mm Kel-Tec. Today, I was wearing shorts and a t-shirt, the bulge could have been noticed.

As for the NRA attention. I feel the powers-to-be don't want us to be armed at anytime. And use the excuse 'no possession of a firearm on the job'. I'll dodge the 'on the job' part and not claim the interaction on my time sheet, but the face to face will be documented. Had the encounter needed more of my attention resulting of transporting the client and/or family member, I would:

1) Transport with the firearm and in the event of be discovered be fired.

2) Tell the family to wait so can take my gun home and return.

3) Tell the family, I don't have time for them, that could end up in a grievence against me.

Since time was not an issue today, I would have taken my gun home and come back later.

At some point, I should be off the clock.

[bteague2]

Start carrying concealed? Or get a pocket gun? I'm not sure I understand the question. I wouldn't consider running into families at the super market working, even if you discuss "work issues".

[Guest betobeto]

I think the OP must work 168 hour work week;). Work is Work. If your not on the clock who cares if you have your gun on? Its not like its a matter of ethics!

[Oh Shoot]

Start carrying concealed? Or get a pocket gun? I'm not sure I understand the question. I wouldn't consider running into families at the super market working, even if you discuss "work issues".

Yeah, I don't really get it...

If you are "off duty", then what's the worry.

Who really cares if somebody thinks you are packin?

Plus, I wonder if you've been carrying long? Sounds sort of like newbie self-consciousness, but maybe I'm wrong.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

oops, dupe.

Edited March 9, 2009 by OhShoot

[TGO David]

I think what the OP is getting at is that a case could possibly by raised by the State that he is "on duty" all the time. I don't think it would hold up in court, but I wouldn't want to be the first person to have to defend myself against such a baseless charge either.

[Guest jmac]

Titansfan, what happens if you are out to dinner and having a few drinks and run into a family or are called in after hours on a case? Will you be in trouble for consuming or having consumed? I understand you are supposedly always "on-call" but Metro can't expect to have you 24/7.

[PirateQui]

My wife works for DCS in Davidson County and has complained vocally about not being allowed to protect herself in any meaningful way (No pepper spray or any other self defense item), she wanted to chime in so I told her I would paste her thoughts:

As a state employee with DCS in CPS, I can see the problem. Especially given that the f2f is going to be documented and the fact that it may be counted as work hours. If for some reason, even if I am not on call, I get an emergency that I have to attend to in a case while driving out to the range or to the store I would have to go home and it would be a more serious issue because it endanger the child due to a delayed response time on my part.

The problem is as a state DCS employee we will encounter clients which is unfortunate because it means there is no real solution to the issue unless you get the rules more clearly defined from the state, which is part of the reason I won't be getting my carry permit, I don't want to risk the trouble it would cause.

She wanted to add:

Unless they are going to set up a formal system that ensures we aren't going to be in violation of any rules when these type of emergency situations happen they will have to be accepting of the fact that no matter how important the emergency is I may have to take a gun home or I may be unavailable because I have been out to dinner and had a few drinks and as for carrying a handgun you just have to make it clear that no matter how important it is you can't talk business when it isn't during your 'work hours' or on call time.

Edited March 9, 2009 by PirateQui

[-boatman-]

I wouldn't consider running into families at the super market working, even if you discuss "work issues".

+1 8:00 to 5:00, no firearm. Other than that carry. How can they fire you if you have interaction after hours. You cannot control who comes up to you in public and the state cannot disarm you on your own time..

[bteague2]

If for some reason, even if I am not on call, I get an emergency that I have to attend to in a case while driving out to the range or to the store I would have to go home and it would be a more serious issue because it endanger the child due to a delayed resopnse time on my part.

Why go home? You can leave it in your car. Your not having "clients" in your car are you? If you are get a new job, if not then there is no issue. And I may be way off, but if your wife's response time being delayed could endanger a child shouldn't the police be called not DCS?

[PirateQui]

In many situations you are taking clients in your car during an emergency. As for the calling the police there may be situations where you don't even know the child is in danger and even when you the children are in danger DCS is the only one called unless the case manager believes they will be in danger. I'm not sure though.

[Titansfan]

I appreciate the feedback.

At times, I have gone above and beyond: Finding a runaway in Pinson, knowing if the police get involved will make the matter worse. Ending up staying the night at a Memphis hospital with a female client whom was gang-raped. Put in bluntly, I go to work at 8 and don't know where I could be at 4:30.

Issue brought up about having a few drinks. Hard to hide the alcohol on the breath.

I will bring up the matter with my supervisor or next team meeting.

[DaveTN]

I don’t see a problem here. If you are off work and run into a client and it turns into some kind of incident…. If you have a carry permit you are fine.

If you are working on your off hours by choice (like looking for a runaway) then you need to be unarmed.

However…. Yes, I am sure your supervisor could give you better direction than we can.

[Titansfan]

I had a lengthy conversation with my immediate supervisor and told him the situation. He advised that after 4:30, I am off the clock, yet available. If called out from home, don't show up 'packing'. Off the clock, carry when and where I want to (legally). If I see a client and/or family (while 'packing'), don't initiate the contact, ie, if I see them across the parking lot, don't go out of my way to make contat. However, if the family approaches me and gains my attention, take care of the business. Document the f2f (face to face) that the meeting was "unplanned". I normally document the meeting beginning with "FSW (Family Service Worker) ran into _____ at Dollar General in Dresden while shopping and we discussed.....".

That way I am covered and in the event the client or family voices a complaint that they saw the barrell or bulge from a handgun.

[Guest bkelm18]

I had a lengthy conversation with my immediate supervisor and told him the situation. He advised that after 4:30, I am off the clock, yet available. If called out from home, don't show up 'packing'. Off the clock, carry when and where I want to (legally). If I see a client and/or family (while 'packing'), don't initiate the contact, ie, if I see them across the parking lot, don't go out of my way to make contat. However, if the family approaches me and gains my attention, take care of the business. Document the f2f (face to face) that the meeting was "unplanned". I normally document the meeting beginning with "FSW (Family Service Worker) ran into _____ at Dollar General in Dresden while shopping and we discussed.....".

That way I am covered and in the event the client or family voices a complaint that they saw the barrell or bulge from a handgun.

Well, sounds like you've got your bases covered.

[Guest trigem]

Buy a handgun safe for your vehicle and lock it up when needed:koolaid: