Open Carry - anyone doing it now?

[45guy]

1 hour ago, deerslayer said:

I’m 5’10/180 and can easily and comfortably conceal a Glock 48 or Springfield EMP IWB under just a t-shirt all day long.  Usually the fat guys are the one complaining about concealing IWB.  

I have tried inside the IWB and hate them.  I also tuck my shirt in. Generally I am in a business casual attire. Dress slacks and golf shirt.  I also not a fan of lose fitting cloths. 

[deerslayer]

20 hours ago, 45guy said:

I have tried inside the IWB and hate them.  I also tuck my shirt in. Generally I am in a business casual attire. Dress slacks and golf shirt.  I also not a fan of lose fitting cloths. 

I did slightly alter the way I dress when I started carrying, but it was well worth the small effort.  Different strokes for different folks and all that I guess.  

[MGunMike]

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Edited September 14, 2021 by MGunMike
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[E4 No More]

On 9/9/2021 at 2:35 PM, 45guy said:

Sorry there is no data showing that one open carrying is the first target nor does it make sense.  Bad guys generally want as few confrontations possible.  The likely hood of one getting shot and not being able to return fire is more like the movies than real life and few bad guys are looking to get in a gun fight.  What if a bad guy comes into a restaurant and armed cop is setting there? Do you think they are the first target or will the bad guy go find a easier place to rob.  I have never heard of someone being targeted first because they were armed. I also does not seem reasonable that a bad guy would scan the crowd looking to take out someone armed.  Its more likely if the bad guy sees someone armed they will pick a easier target.  The times I have OP was with a G26 that very few people even could see more less a bad guy making me the first target.  

Sorry, but as a LEO in the 90's I can attest that there have been enough times that a robber came into a restaurant or store while a uniformed police officer was there that they taught us to always sit were we could see who was coming through the doors, and not sit with our backs to the doors. Drug addicts and the desperate aren't the best at planning their robberies. Now days you also have to take into account domestic and foreign terrorists that are wanting to make a statement by killing as many people as they can. They would start with the threat to their plan which would be the OC'ers.

[E4 No More]

On 9/9/2021 at 2:51 PM, 45guy said:

I am not sure where you guys live but the few times I have OCed no one noticed that I could tell. 

I can pretty much assure you that I'd notice. Some habits just don't die over the years since I was a LEO. You would also probably not notice me noticing you, but I tend to scan everyone and if I see an OC I'm reading their body language too.

[E4 No More]

23 hours ago, deerslayer said:

I’m 5’10/180 and can easily and comfortably conceal a Glock 48 or Springfield EMP IWB under just a t-shirt all day long.  Usually the fat guys are the one complaining about concealing IWB.  

That's why this 6'4" 330lbs fat guy bought a really good shoulder holster. I complain about belt buckles digging into my belly too.

[MGunMike]

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Edited September 14, 2021 by MGunMike
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[45guy]

1 hour ago, E4 No More said:

Sorry, but as a LEO in the 90's I can attest that there have been enough times that a robber came into a restaurant or store while a uniformed police officer was there that they taught us to always sit were we could see who was coming through the doors, and not sit with our backs to the doors. Drug addicts and the desperate aren't the best at planning their robberies. Now days you also have to take into account domestic and foreign terrorists that are wanting to make a statement by killing as many people as they can. They would start with the threat to their plan which would be the OC'ers.

My guess would be that drug addicts are not scanning the crowd with the plan on shooting anyone they see open carrying either. If they were robbing restaurants with uniformed cops there then surely they did not take the time to scan the crowd looking for a someone OC'ing.  Sort of made my point for me, thanks. Sorry I have not seen many domestic or foreign terrorists in east tn.  I would guess if they came in shooting AK 47's it will not matter if one is open carrying or concealed.  I guess I could dream up a scenario that one that is open carrying would make them a target but to date it is just wild situations that are very unlikely to actually happen. 

[45guy]

1 hour ago, E4 No More said:

I can pretty much assure you that I'd notice. Some habits just don't die over the years since I was a LEO. You would also probably not notice me noticing you, but I tend to scan everyone and if I see an OC I'm reading their body language too.

And frankly you can notice me all you want very few people have that I was aware of.  Some had mentioned they did not want to deal with Ken's and Karen's about why they are armed. My point was that Ken a Karen would not notice me carrying.  My guess is also you would not confront someone you saw OC'ing either.  

[45guy]

2 hours ago, MGunMike said:

Actually a great topic for discussion.  My philosophy is simple. Always concealed. My reasons. First as stated previously in the thread I don’t want to be the first one as the target for the bad guys.  I don’t particularly want people to be concerned about an armed gentleman walking around. Especially children. And mainly if something does go terribly wrong somewhere I have the element of surprise. Would never draw on the drop but I have options that they don’t know about. Just IMHO. 

Your free to carry as you like but the reasons seem strange to me.  There is no reason for one to think they would be the first target nothing. Secondly your assuming people would be concerned about you walking around armed. Very few people I know would give a rip.  They element of surprise makes the most sense I guess to me.  I would think the determent of knowing there are armed people around and fast access to one firearm probably off sets that. In my book. Just my opinion.

[E4 No More]

23 minutes ago, 45guy said:

My guess would be that drug addicts are not scanning the crowd with the plan on shooting anyone they see open carrying either. If they were robbing restaurants with uniformed cops there then surely they did not take the time to scan the crowd looking for a someone OC'ing.  Sort of made my point for me, thanks. Sorry I have not seen many domestic or foreign terrorists in east tn.  I would guess if they came in shooting AK 47's it will not matter if one is open carrying or concealed.  I guess I could dream up a scenario that one that is open carrying would make them a target but to date it is just wild situations that are very unlikely to actually happen. 

Hate to break it to you but the uniform itself tells someone that you are open carrying and makes you target - hence being trained the way I was trained. They come in, see the cop, and open up on him/her first...If you can't accept that then that's your problem.

Perhaps you don't have domestic terrorists in BFE Tennessee, or you have an overly strict definition of the term, but we've had several incidences of domestic terrorists in middle Tennessee. They've sprayed-up a Waffle House that my daughter almost entered right before the shooting, and a church. Perhaps you are oblivious to the ones that happened in states around you like Virginia too.

[E4 No More]

29 minutes ago, 45guy said:

And frankly you can notice me all you want very few people have that I was aware of.  Some had mentioned they did not want to deal with Ken's and Karen's about why they are armed. My point was that Ken a Karen would not notice me carrying.  My guess is also you would not confront someone you saw OC'ing either.  

Perhaps you lack situational awareness  - hence your inability accept that you may be wrong? A why would I confront Ken or Karen? Should I care what they think?   I don't think so.

[45guy]

3 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

Hate to break it to you but the uniform itself tells someone that you are open carrying and makes you target - hence being trained the way I was trained. They come in, see the cop, and open up on him/her first...If you can't accept that then that's your problem.

Perhaps you don't have domestic terrorists in BFE Tennessee, or you have an overly strict definition of the term, but we've had several incidences of domestic terrorists in middle Tennessee. They've sprayed-up a Waffle House that my daughter almost entered right before the shooting, and a church. Perhaps you are oblivious to the ones that happened in states around you like Virginia too.

So your telling me a bad guy comes into a business to rob it or some other criminal reason and they see a cop there so they shoot the cop first and then continue on with the reason they are there?   I would love to hear all the stories about those things happening, please share so that I can learn. Maybe because your a cop makes you a target maybe.  If I am sitting in a restaurant and a bad guy comes in how is he going to know if someone is open carrying unless he has been there and had time to check everyone out.  Please share with me some situations that a cop or any other open carrying person was targeted other than just being a cop. 

[45guy]

I would also note that very few people that carry concealed are not all that concealed.  I have seen plenty of guys that are printing in one way or the other.  Maybe as the sit down or move one way or the other, If your looking you can see most of the time.  So how does that work if open carrying makes you a target then does printing make you one as well?  Even with a ankle holster if someone looks long enough they can spot something.  I tend to not care, if someone sees something or not.  That's just me. 

[E4 No More]

16 hours ago, 45guy said:

So your telling me a bad guy comes into a business to rob it or some other criminal reason and they see a cop there so they shoot the cop first and then continue on with the reason they are there?   I would love to hear all the stories about those things happening, please share so that I can learn. Maybe because your a cop makes you a target maybe.  If I am sitting in a restaurant and a bad guy comes in how is he going to know if someone is open carrying unless he has been there and had time to check everyone out.  Please share with me some situations that a cop or any other open carrying person was targeted other than just being a cop. 

Dude, I'm not going to do your research for you - particularly from 30+ years ago. You believe what you want to believe no matter how wrong you are.

Edited September 15, 2021 by E4 No More

[mikegideon]

I remember in the early days of holding a handgun permit, the open carry threads were much deeper. My reaction to this one was... Nope, don't do it.

I live in Kentucky now too. In my younger days here, I never saw anybody wearing a handgun. Concealed was illegal.  But, we did it anyway.

I have pretty much carried a gun everywhere now, even into Joe's Gun Free Zones. I never have an urge to show my pistol. 

A gun can add real complications to just about any social interaction. I think it wise to keep it out of sight until you absolutely need it. 

When it comes to Voldemort, they were finally able to slap that idiot hard enough to make him go away. They should find him and slap him again, just because.

[mikegideon]

Just now, mikegideon said:

When it comes to Voldemort

The filter still works!

[E4 No More]

40 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

When it comes to Voldemort, they were finally able to slap that idiot hard enough to make him go away. They should find him and slap him again, just because.

I couldn't agree more...

[45guy]

5 hours ago, E4 No More said:

Dude, I'm not going to do your research for you - particularly from 30+ years ago. You believe what you want to believe no matter how wrong you are.

Dude, I look forward to what you can find. Good luck, no matter how wrong you are.  Frankly if you have to go back 30+ years to find something I think I have proven my point.  Keep your firearm concealed so you will not be the first one shot. Lol,  There are plenty of reason to conceal carry but that's not one of them. 

[45guy]

22 hours ago, E4 No More said:

Perhaps you lack situational awareness  - hence your inability accept that you may be wrong? A why would I confront Ken or Karen? Should I care what they think?   I don't think so.

I guess you did not understand my statement. Some have said they did not want a Ken or Karen confronting them about their firearm, that was one of the reasons they like to conceal, my point was Ken or Karen would not notice me carrying a firearm so that would not concern me.  My comment about you confronting someone you saw open carrying was about you not them.  Again my guess is that you would not confront someone you saw carrying just because they were carrying.  Hope that clears it up for you.  I am not trying to be wrong or right just because you think differently than I do, so what.  That does not make either of us wrong or right just different.  My original point is that I have not seen neither does it make sense to me that if one open carry's makes them the first target.  Has it happened in the history of people carrying firearm? Maybe. Is that a logical reason to conceal, not in my book. If it becomes a problem that starts happening, Ok that's a good reason to conceal.  It's not a contest to see who is right or wrong as you seem to think. I am not  here to prove someone right or wrong.  I am here to rub elbows with other like minded people.  I love a good debate but not here to prove someone wrong or to prove I a right, I got over that in middle school. 

[chances R]

just an example that has happened, can't remember the exact details, but a bad guy rounded up all the customers and employees to lock in a back room.  Who knows, may have been intent on murdering them all.  At the appropriate time, an armed good guy pulled his gun and shot bad guy.  Had he been OC, never would have had that chance as he would have been disarmed by bad guy.  Surprise is part of one's defensive tactics. 

[45guy]

13 minutes ago, chances R said:

just an example that has happened, can't remember the exact details, but a bad guy rounded up all the customers and employees to lock in a back room.  Who knows, may have been intent on murdering them all.  At the appropriate time, an armed good guy pulled his gun and shot bad guy.  Had he been OC, never would have had that chance as he would have been disarmed by bad guy.  Surprise is part of one's defensive tactics. 

Ok if your looking at what if's maybe the bad guy sees to guy open carrying and decides to find an easier target.  There are thousands of these stories but looking for someone that was targeted because they were open.  That is the claim. 

[45guy]

Just for the record I conceal 99 percent of the time.  But not because I am concerned about being shot first.  I also have a sign in my yard warning that I have a security system at my house.  I am hoping the bad guy will look at that and move on to a easier target.  Let the bashing begin, lol 

[chances R]

30 minutes ago, 45guy said:

Ok if your looking at what if's maybe the bad guy sees to guy open carrying and decides to find an easier target.  There are thousands of these stories but looking for someone that was targeted because they were open.  That is the claim. 

You didn't see the guy standing in line at McDs who was stripped of his gun while standing in line?

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2021/02/18/video-man-snatches-gun-from-man-at-detroit-gas-station-counter/

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/south-phoenix/silent-witness-looking-for-man-who-stole-gun-from-mcdonalds-customer

[45guy]

15 hours ago, chances R said:

You didn't see the guy standing in line at McDs who was stripped of his gun while standing in line?

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2021/02/18/video-man-snatches-gun-from-man-at-detroit-gas-station-counter/

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/south-phoenix/silent-witness-looking-for-man-who-stole-gun-from-mcdonalds-customer

Ok, not sure that has anything to do with being the first target because of open carry but thanks.