What is it with churches and prohibiting carrying?

[Rightwinger]

Nope, kids should not have to participate should classmates or even a teacher wish to lead a prayer if they choose, but the right for both sides is guaranteed! The Constitution only mandates that no STATE run religion will ever be formed. (Church of England, Iran under Khomeni, Taliban, etc)

This nation was formed with religion as it's core value. No revision can remove that fact. If you think its legal to force the parts of society that wish to pray when they want to out, then you might as well join those that want to legislate what you eat, how much money you can legally earn and whether or not a citizen has the right to keep and bear arms.

You can't have only parts of the Constitution and the bill of rights in force.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[Guest Fenris]

Separation of church and state.

Is nowhere to be found in the Constitution, but rather in a private letter from Jefferson to a pastor who was afraid that the Federal government was going to force a state denomination and therefore put him in the minority.

So, not only do people claim something in the Constitution that isn't, but they use Jefferson's words in the exact opposite way that Jefferson meant it to be used.

[Guest bkelm18]

Is nowhere to be found in the Constitution, but rather in a private letter from Jefferson to a pastor who was afraid that the Federal government was going to force a state denomination and therefore put him in the minority.

So, not only do people claim something in the Constitution that isn't, but they use Jefferson's words in the exact opposite way that Jefferson meant it to be used.

Sorry, but I will not support anyone or any government who does not separate religion and state issues.

[Rightwinger]

I wouldn't try east or west but north and south will work out pretty well.

[Rightwinger]

By the way, did you lie or just not know what you were saying when you took your oath? Your info says your former military and every oath ever given ends in "SO HELP ME GOD". Your government asked you to swear an oath before witness and GOD.

Words mean things, that's why you shouldn't just spew them like vomit.

[Guest bkelm18]

By the way, did you lie or just not know what you were saying when you took your oath? Your info says your former military and every oath ever given ends in "SO HELP ME GOD". Your government asked you to swear an oath before witness and GOD.

Words mean things, that's why you shouldn't just spew them like vomit.

Sorry, you're not going to get me to say that gov't and church should be one and the same. I chose not to speak those specific words when I took the oath of enlistment as you are allowed to do so. The commander that swore us in even said so. Sorry.

[DaveTN]

Most of us don’t separate Church and State; we can’t and won’t.

But we are crystal clear on what Jefferson meant and how the term even came about.

[Guest nraforlife]

Unfortunately, most Christians don't do when it comes to defending their beliefs. A frickin Muslim would burn a place down before they would lay down and take the that Christians do.

I don't think a church would have anyone arrested for carrying a concealed firearm but I could be wrong. But then again I've generally had it with self-righteous hypocrites and could give a rats ass about them.

[Rightwinger]

Sorry, you're not going to get me to say that gov't and church should be one and the same. I chose not to speak those specific words when I took the oath of enlistment as you are allowed to do so. The commander that swore us in even said so. Sorry.

Go back through the posts, read them slowly.....

Now, where did anyone say Church and State are one in the same! Those of us providing you with information clearly stated the Constitution just makes clear that NO state religion would be established. That would mean judges would mete out judgments according to the old or new testament!

What we also said is it does NOT make any mention that religion had to be excluded from anything related to government. Just because a kid wants to pray for health and safety before a football game to which ever God he wants to he should be banned from that? If its a free country its free for all of us and not just the big pile of crap that has climbed over those that have worked and died to build it while not understanding all the principles it was formed on.

Lightning in the area and the utter despair that I might ought to go tell this to my cat prevent me from posting more.

In God We Trust

In Interpretation we Rust

[Guest grimel]

Sorry, but I will not support anyone or any government who does not separate religion and state issues.

So you want to pick and choose what parts of the Constitution should be followed? EVERYONE combines their religion with state issues.

[Guest bkelm18]

So you want to pick and choose what parts of the Constitution should be followed? EVERYONE combines their religion with state issues.

Which part of the constitution says that church and state go together? What about atheists? How can they combine state issues with something they don't have? Unless you consider atheism a form of religion.

[Guest smithandwesson]

The was another church shooting in IL. Seen on the news a minute ago. The minister was shot and killed. Right there is a good reason to carry in church.

[Guest jdavis]

let us pray to our god whoever he or she may be that our right to carry all together is not revoked, and that we will not loose the right to have these amusing debates about politics and religion.

[Guest grimel]

Which part of the constitution says that church and state go together? What about atheists? How can they combine state issues with something they don't have? Unless you consider atheism a form of religion.

The question is what part of the Constitution says they don't?

How? Well, religion being a part of a persons makeup/thought process everything they do is filtered through their (actual) religion.

[Guest RISC777]

The was another church shooting in IL. Seen on the news a minute ago. The minister was shot and killed. Right there is a good reason to carry in church.

My thought exactly. Someone walks in a church, drive-by at the front of any church . . . someone, some day will be wishing they had a weapon on their side or that someone else does.

[Guest KWW67]

I agree. I think some preachers may start thinking different with all these shootings going on. People have really lost it in this world. I have just three words... Keep it concealed........

[Tim Nunan]

Got invited to a "wild game dinner" at a local church by my dad. While I'm not big on the religious stuff, I figured if nothing else, I'd get a good meal and maybe win a cool door prize. Got there, walked up to the door, and there's a big-ass sign.

"Concealed weapons are not permitted on these premises." Or something along these lines. Nothing resembling the legal requirements, mind you. Rather than walk all the way back to my dad's truck and stick my Kel-Tec in the glove box, I just ignored the signs. If I got made and asked to leave, so be it.

I found this to be particularly ironic in light of the event tonight. Among the door prizes were something on the order of a dozen guns, which were subsequently given away.

I'm considering writing a letter to the leadership. Personally, I don't give two craps about what they prohibit in their building; I don't anticipate going back there any time soon. But I'm really curious as to the rationale. Based on my experiences, the vast majority of Christians seem to be right-leaning, so it surprises me to see a sentiment like this from a church.

So don't conceal in that church.

[mcurrier]

Which part of the constitution says that church and state go together? What about atheists? How can they combine state issues with something they don't have? Unless you consider atheism a form of religion.

People inherently carry the religion with them as a part of their being/character/make up/personailty (or however you want to define that). When people go to the grocery store, the gas station, or to their government job (whether they be a US Postal worker, Senator, Congressman, Supreme Court Justice, etc.), their religion goes along with them. It is part of the person and goes wherever they go.

Yes, atheism is also a religion, as well agnosticism, and many other common forms of established religions. Do not fall into the trap of defining "religion" as something that is necessarily related to God. The true definition of "religion" is - A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. God Himself is not too keen on 'religion' as most people would define it. Religion is something that man has made up in his search for either a reason for existing or in worship of something/someone higher than himself. Worship of God in a pure sense is not "religion" until man perverts it by introducing all kinds of processes, customs and rote ritual.

Then there is the problem in your argument and previous statements based on this assumption of some sort of doctrine of so-called "separation of church and state". This false doctrine was brought about by anti-God type people, mostly in the past century, who mistakenly (intentionally is more accurate) misuse a few sentences from a letter by Thomas Jefferson and take them out of context. Jefferson was actually saying that the state should have no control over religion, nor establish a state sponsored religion ('denomination' for our discussion here), thus by default prohibiting other "religions" ('denominations'), and in effect suppressing the people's right to freedom of religion. For simpletons, this means that the state (gubment) can not tell people what to do concerning religion, but at the same time the state is made up of people who are themselves of religion.

For those of you who have not been indoctrinated by public schooling in the past 30+ years, you will know the answer to this. For those of you who have not been fortunate enough to escape the indoctrination process, the answer will be given after the question -

Q. Why did the pilgrims come to America?

A. To escape religious persecution.

That, and a deep faith in God, is why most of the documents written by our founding fathers have many references to God, the Divine Creator, and the rights that are given to mankind as inherent and eternal rights that go along with man's existence, just like air and water. These basic rights are not, nor can be, given to men by other men, they come straight from God. The founding fathers made mention of God and these natural rights in these documents to keep other men (kings, presidents, senators, etc.) from trying to prohibit you from enjoying these basic rights. These rights can not be taken away by men, because they were not given by men.

[Guest 270win]

My church has never said anything about firearms and I am pretty confident i am not the only one on any given Sunday with one hidden. I like to keep it that way. I'll continue to carry and if someone somehow finds out I am carrying and asks for me not to, then I can take my membership elsewhere.

[Smith]

People inherently carry the religion with them as a part of their being/character/make up/personailty (or however you want to define that). When people go to the grocery store, the gas station, or to their government job (whether they be a US Postal worker, Senator, Congressman, Supreme Court Justice, etc.), their religion goes along with them. It is part of the person and goes wherever they go.

Yes, atheism is also a religion, as well agnosticism, and many other common forms of established religions. Do not fall into the trap of defining "religion" as something that is necessarily related to God. The true definition of "religion" is - A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. God Himself is not too keen on 'religion' as most people would define it. Religion is something that man has made up in his search for either a reason for existing or in worship of something/someone higher than himself. Worship of God in a pure sense is not "religion" until man perverts it by introducing all kinds of processes, customs and rote ritual.

Then there is the problem in your argument and previous statements based on this assumption of some sort of doctrine of so-called "separation of church and state". This false doctrine was brought about by anti-God type people, mostly in the past century, who mistakenly (intentionally is more accurate) misuse a few sentences from a letter by Thomas Jefferson and take them out of context. Jefferson was actually saying that the state should have no control over religion, nor establish a state sponsored religion ('denomination' for our discussion here), thus by default prohibiting other "religions" ('denominations'), and in effect suppressing the people's right to freedom of religion. For simpletons, this means that the state (gubment) can not tell people what to do concerning religion, but at the same time the state is made up of people who are themselves of religion.

Close. It simply means no ruling government religious denomination, i.e. the Catholic or Anglican models of Europe. It does encourage "religion" by the government as a reflection of society. During the founding days the vast majority of Americans were closely linked ie, Protestant, while maintaining differences in practice. Since we have all but abandoned those founding principles we have what we have today - moral relativism/human secularism fighting against judeo christian values.