Road rage incident, gun saved my ass

[dralarms]

Hard palm hand to front of helmet = Win.

Yea that'd hurt. Nothing like having that face plate crammed into your grill.

Back in my youth I would just as soon give you the redneck salute as not, get in my way, you got it, ride my bumper you got it, you get the idea. Now that I am older, wiser, and carry a weapon I alway think "what are my actionsgonna do to this situation?" before I act. To many crazy people with a gun out there to be just randomally pissing someong off. (and no I'm not talking about HCP holders).

[Punisher84]

Not trying to be a prick here, but your profile says you're 19. Just how long ago were these "wilder days"...

Don't know about JM, but I had a few friends doing time by 16, a couple more that had serious drug problems, and one of my best friends was drinking as much as he could get his hands on whenever he could.

Age is just a number, but mindset and determination to fly straight or burn down the road to Hell as fast as you can don't care what your birth date is.

[Mike.357]

I am unsure of what the OP means by scanner. But I assume it is a regular scanner and you are listening to police calls and what not? Aren't those illegal to have in a car?

Calling the guy out was a mistake. You should have ignored him and left straight away of possible.

[Guest JeepMonkey]

Not trying to be a prick here, but your profile says you're 19. Just how long ago were these "wilder days"...

Pretty much most of high school.

[cadillacdude1975]

police scanners per say are not illegal last time i checked per Tennessee state law, but i believe it is up to the cities and municipalities to enact local laws on that. i could be wrong now, but years ago i used to ride around with one in the car and was never given any questions about the scanner.

i dont know about other cities in TN, but the scanner i would have to buy to track the Chattanooga police and fire costs about 500 bucks (that is what radio shack said, i never investigated futher). i dont give a flying you know what about what the cops are doing to want to spend that much money on a scanner.

[Guest JeepMonkey]

i dont give a flying you know what about what the cops are doing to want to spend that much money on a scanner.

X2. I just bought a radar detector for a lot less. Fulfills the same purpose a scanner in the car does too.

[Guest TNK]

its only illegal to have a scanner in your car if your using it while committing a crime.

[Guest KWW67]

Just curious how the officer handled it. Was he decent about it?

[Fallguy]

its only illegal to have a scanner in your car if your using it while committing a crime.

I believe that is correct.

[Guest smithandwesson]

Just curious how the officer handled it. Was he decent about it?

Ya he was a real nice guy, he politely took my report and I went on to work. I told him exactly what happened, he asked if I had a permit for the weapon and I showed him and that was that.

[Guest Boomhower]

Reminds me of a time when I was driving close to an hour and a half to work in Maryville (on different section of 33). I was driving thru one of the smaller towns and this guy was all over my gas hole (I tend to drive 5 to 10 over the speed limit). He was swerving from side to side and my thoughts were that I was not getting out of this dirtbag's way since I was already running OVER the speed limit.....as we came to a portion of the road where you are allowed to pass, I maintained my speed with anticipation of him passing. Sure enough, he pulls up along side me, jaw jacking like no other, so I rolled my window down to lend him an ear. You could tell he was screaming his words, but they were all in vain since he never rolled down his pass. window. I just clapped my hands at him and started laughing, then dropped the hammer leaving his POS Tacoma behind. Boy did that pi$$ him off. He jumped back over behind me, turned on his turn signal and pulled over. I'm guessing he was wanting me to do the same, but he only accomplished proving himself to be a fool to all the other people he had been bullying up until this point. So I finished my drive to work with a small feeling of joy.

[Guest JeepMonkey]

This thread reminded me of a blog post I saw a while back. From http://www.lesjones.com/posts/000191.shtml:

If you carry a gun, you have to walk away from fights whenever you can, even if it means swallowing your pride. Let's say someone is yelling at you and calling you and yours names. What do you do?

• If you pull a gun and shoot him for calling you names, you're a murderer, plain and simple. You can only use deadly force when faced with the loss of life or limb.
  
• If you punch the guy, things can get out of control. If he starts winning the fight and gets on top of you, do you shoot him? If he pulls a knife, do you shoot him? In either case, you're the one who started the fight by punching him, so you could be guilty of murder.
  
• If you draw your gun and try to intimidate him, he may not back down, and you're forced to either back down or shoot an unarmed man.
  
• Maybe he isn't unarmed, and drawing your gun will provoke a gunfight.
  
• If you get in a fistfight and try to draw your gun in the clench, he could take your gun and kill you. Now he's a murderer and you're dead.
  
• The best strategy is to keep your cool and move away. Being called a name never killed anyone. If he follows you and assaults you, you may need to draw your weapon. If so, you're in a better legal position, since you tried to retreat and he initiated the fight.
  
• If you're in a tight spot - you can't get away, but there isn't yet sufficient reason to use deadly force - saying "back off, I have a gun" isn't the worst thing you can do. Say it while your hand is on your gun in case he draws his, but keep your finger off of the trigger until you're forced to shoot.
  

Edited March 9, 2009 by JeepMonkey

[Guest voigts]

Some people are really whacked out of their heads. A couple of years ago I was with my wife visiting her mother in Michigan. I had just parked the car at a Miejers (like Walmart) and was walking across the parking lot to go into the store. I was only about 20 feet from getting into the store when I see a car coming at me in my peripheral vision, so I jumped back to avoid being hit. This guy had come out of nowhere with his car and semi tried to hit me. He had his window down and said that the next time I take his parking space, he is going to get out and kick my !?!!#$%^^$. Mind you, there wasn't even a car driving anywhere near the space I parked into. I just told the guy to "get a life" and walked into the store. I didn't have a gun or permit at the time, so that wasn't an issue. But I still look at that and wonder what gets inside of some people's heads?

[Guest HexHead]

I am glad everything worked out for you.

While I can understand unholstering your weapon (I think I might have done the same) I am glad, for your sake, that it did not cause an escalation of the situation.

Once your antagonist knows you are armed a line has been crossed. If he came over to your car, saw the gun and not retreated what would you have done? What if he started damaging your car (in a way that would not violate the Castle Doctrine) what then?

I know, what if's can go on forever. However, after an incident it is good to go over it and wonder what we would have done.

If he started pounding on the car or breaking windows, I guess you could say you were reasonably in fear of grave bodily injury from the guy, and justified in using self defense.

[BenS]

run the bloody light if you can

And then he would have been out $50 to the city for running it. It is camera enforced.

On the positive side, it would have all been on camera so the organ donor could have possibly been identified.

[Guest JeepMonkey]

And then he would have been out $50 to the city for running it. It is camera enforced.

On the positive side, it would have all been on camera so the organ donor could have possibly been identified.

Yeah there aren't many of those where I come from.

[frontier737]

If he started pounding on the car or breaking windows, I guess you could say you were reasonably in fear of grave bodily injury from the guy, and justified in using self defense.

You cannot use deadly force to protect property. If they're stealing a hubcap they're not a threat to life or limb.

(Hat tip to http://www.lesjones.com/posts/000191.shtml )

[Guest JeepMonkey]

You cannot use deadly force to protect property. If they're stealing a hubcap they're not a threat to life or limb.

(Hat tip to http://www.lesjones.com/posts/000191.shtml )

If you were locked in the car and he broke the windows in an effort to get to you, then yes, you can use deadly force as he was attempting to threaten your life.

[Fallguy]

You cannot use deadly force to protect property. If they're stealing a hubcap they're not a threat to life or limb.

(Hat tip to http://www.lesjones.com/posts/000191.shtml )

True, but you can use deadly force to prevent a carjacking. In fact a car is just like your house in the sense it is presumed you are in fear of death or serious bodily injury.

39-11-611©

Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury within a residence, business, dwelling or vehicle is presumed to have held a reasonable belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury to self, family, a member of the household or a person visiting as an invited guest, when that force is used against another person, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence, business, dwelling or vehicle, and the person using defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

Also the website you post is wrong about places that are off-limits. You can carry in Airports, unless they are posted, you can now carry in Federal Parks, you can carry in public facilities...just not public recreational facilites.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Fallguy

[poak]

I dont think you not driving fast enough is what pissed him off.A crotch rocket is maneuverable,and quick enough to pass those slower drivers,even on curvy roads.

I have however seen folks on bikes (including myself when I rode) nearly get run over,especially when people are not paying attention.

Maybe you didn't see him,and the headphones distracted you enough to not notice him.....

Big +1!

[Guest Schwarzgebrannt]

No Tennessee DA is going to go after you for using deadly force to defend yourself from a carjacking.

[Guest JeepMonkey]

No Tennessee DA is going to go after you for using deadly force to defend yourself from a carjacking.

However, left-wing lawyers chasing a civil suit will in a heartbeat.

[Guest voigts]

No Tennessee DA is going to go after you for using deadly force to defend yourself from a carjacking.

The Castle Doctrine is such a big help. You can legally defend yourself in your car just like in your home, and if a guy comes up to you with a weapon to carjack you, he has a weapon and your life is therefore threatened.

[Mousegun]

As a motorcycle rider I can tell you one of the most dangerous operators is someone on a cell phone or someone who has earphones on and is not paying full attention to driving.

I simply avoid them but some riders (like the dude you encountered) think it is their duty to educate the population about driving and not paying full attention in order to make them, and their fellow riders safer. Safe and motorcycling is an oxymoron. You are never as "safe" on a bike as in a car but you can minimize the risk and that is what I do via avoidance. Riding is a personal choice.

When I started carrying, I gave up the ability to counter people like this especially with a get F**** which is a strong challenge to escalate the situation.

Please be cautious to do same in the future. I am responsible to all my fellow CCW holders in my actions because what I do is reflected on everyone. The media will see to that. So too are you responsible in the same way I am.

[poak]

As a motorcycle rider I can tell you one of the most dangerous operators is someone on a cell phone or someone who has earphones on and is not paying full attention to driving.

I simply avoid them but some riders (like the dude you encountered) think it is their duty to educate the population about driving and not paying full attention in order to make them, and their fellow riders safer. Safe and motorcycling is an oxymoron. You are never as "safe" on a bike as in a car but you can minimize the risk and that is what I do via avoidance. Riding is a personal choice.

When I started carrying, I gave up the ability to counter people like this especially with a get F**** which is a strong challenge to escalate the situation.

Please be cautious to do same in the future. I am responsible to all my fellow CCW holders in my actions because what I do is reflected on everyone. The media will see to that. So too are you responsible in the same way I am.

I go to great lengths to try to avoid drivers like this, but sometimes you just can't. When I was riding in SoCal, I got boxed in and some chick on a cell phone tried to merge right into me, I gave her a friendly reminder in the form of my boot on her door.