Bill Would Enact Gun Return Procedure

[threeshot]

http://www.wsmv.com/news/18873246/detail.html

No Current Process For People Served With Protection Orders

Reported by Jeremy Finley

POSTED: 3:54 pm CST March 6, 2009

UPDATED: 6:05 pm CST March 6, 2009

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- If you own a gun or work for law enforcement, then legislation sparked by a Channel 4 I-Team investigation could impact you.

The I-Team exposed holes in the system designed to protect domestic violence victims, and this bill attempts to remedy the problem.

The bill isn't without controversy, but judges and lawmakers said it's a first step to fix problems first exposed in a series of investigations by the Channel 4 I-Team that showed how a system designed to protect women is set up to fail.

"It is absolutely time to do something," said Rep. Beth Harwell of a series of investigations by the Channel 4 I-Team.

Harwell is among the lawmakers who are calling for a set procedure to surrender guns when someone is served with an order of protection.

The I-Team's investigation showed even though people served with orders are told by judges to get rid of their guns, no one in Nashville had ever turned one in to law enforcement because there was no procedure to do it.

"It obviously was a flaw in the law," said Harwell, "and we need to correct it."

The bill would require anyone served with an order of protection to turn over their gun either to the local sheriff, law enforcement or a registered gun dealer within 24 hours of when the order was handed down.

If they don't, they could be charged with a misdemeanor. There will also be a fee charged to store the weapon.

The reason for all of this is to remove guns from tense domestic situations.

"I think it will give people that window of time to get their sanity back," said Judge Carol Soloman, 8th Circuit Court.

There are questions about people bringing weapons to police departments and the danger that might present. But Harwell said she has not only consulted with law enforcement, but also the NRA.

"Even the NRA realizes that these people should just not have guns, and they want to take a reasonable approach to this," Harwell said.

The bill would also require, as soon as that order is handed down, for the person served with the order to detail to the court exactly what kind of gun they gave, including the model and make. Once the order is over -- it usually lasts about a year -- the person can get their gun back.

In Nashville, the guns would likely be turned over to Metro police. It is so far unclear how this process would take place.

Edited March 7, 2009 by threeshot
Provide better thread title

[Guest smithandwesson]

So if Im a crazy woman and my boyfriend just broke up with me, and Im one of those revenge types, I can have an order of protection taken out against my ex boyfreind whether he did anything or not, (all I got to do is raise my right hand, whos not gunna believe me?) and have their guns taken away. Awsome!

I think that those kind of claims should be investigated before a mans guns are just taken away from him. I know there are plenty of guys out there who have or have had girlfriends like this, I have had one before, and the fact is that 92% of the time, the women ends up back with the guy a few days after she had the order taken out.

If a man is going to kill his ol' lady, your not gunna stop him. You can take away his gun, the ones he says he owns or hell, he could even claim he sold them, but the point is, your not gunna stop him. He will find a way to kill her, he will find a gun, thats what criminals do, they break the law.

This will be a hard law to fix.

Edited March 7, 2009 by smithandwesson

[Fadex]

Not just a man. Any woman will find a way to kill her boyfriend, husband, etc. too. They just run you over with a car.

[Fallguy]

So if Im a crazy woman and my boyfriend just broke up with me, and Im one of those revenge types, I can have an order of protection taken out against my ex boyfreind whether he did anything or not, (all I got to do is raise my right hand, whos not gunna believe me?) and have their guns taken away. Awsome!

I think that those kind of claims should be investigated before a mans guns are just taken away from him. I know there are plenty of guys out there who have or have had girlfriends like this, I have had one before, and the fact is that 92% of the time, the women ends up back with the guy a few days after she had the order taken out.

If a man is going to kill his ol' lady, your not gunna stop him. You can take away his gun, the ones he says he owns or hell, he could even claim he sold them, but the point is, your not gunna stop him. He will find a way to kill her, he will find a gun, thats what criminals do, they break the law.

This will be a hard law to fix.

This bill doesn't do anything to fix how easy it is to get an Order of Protection. It simply establishes a procedure for surrendering your firearms once someone is served with an Order of Protection. Something that you are already supposed to do.

I believe if I had to, I'd be turning them into my local gun dealer instead of the police though.

[Garufa]

So if Im a crazy woman and my boyfriend just broke up with me, and Im one of those revenge types, I can have an order of protection taken out against my ex boyfreind whether he did anything or not, (all I got to do is raise my right hand, whos not gunna believe me?) and have their guns taken away. Awsome!

I think that those kind of claims should be investigated before a mans guns are just taken away from him. I know there are plenty of guys out there who have or have had girlfriends like this, I have had one before, and the fact is that 92% of the time, the women ends up back with the guy a few days after she had the order taken out.

You may want to take a Thursday off work and go hang out in the City County building. That's "Order of Protection day" and it is a circus.

[Guest Astra900]

I believe if I had to, I'd be turning them into my local gun dealer instead of the police though.

I'd be turning mine into smoke and mirrors:cool:

[Fallguy]

I'd be turning mine into smoke and mirrors:cool:

LOL...I did sort of mean given the choices...

[Guest Astra900]

Yeah, if you sold them to a dealer, you would have a receipt from a dealer, and cash in your pocket. two weeks later you hit the gun show and look for the people just standing around the bathroom.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

this bill doesnt matter, your guns can be siezed in this situation anyway... been that way for years.

[threeshot]

this bill doesnt matter, your guns can be siezed in this situation anyway... been that way for years.

Are there any modifications gun owners would like to see in the bill?

Maybe set the storage rate for the guns? This would prevent one county from trying to take advantage of this storage fee by setting very high storage fees with hopes that if you do not pay, they get to keep the guns. BTW, does the bill mention what happens if you can't pay the storage fee?

Will the rate be for each gun or the entire collection?

The bill would require anyone served with an order of protection to turn over their gun either to the local sheriff, law enforcement or a registered gun dealer within 24 hours of when the order was handed down.

If they don't, they could be charged with a misdemeanor. There will also be a fee charged to store the weapon.

The bill would also require, as soon as that order is handed down, for the person served with the order to detail to the court exactly what kind of gun they gave, including the model and make. Once the order is over -- it usually lasts about a year -- the person can get their gun back.

Edited March 7, 2009 by threeshot
Questions

[Guest nraforlife]

MORE BS. Guns what guns I sold all my guns at the gun show. Receipts nah don't need them. So kiss my big white arse.

[Guest smithandwesson]

MORE BS. Guns what guns I sold all my guns at the gun show. Receipts nah don't need them. So kiss my big white arse.

+100

[Guest mark_justmark]

Would we also ask where is there search warrant to look for assumed firearms?

Is the warrant implied when they serve the person with the order?

I pray I'm never in the situation but how does all of that work?

Kind of like the post awhile back when the "detective" showed up at the door asking about a "stolen" gun?

MORE BS. Guns what guns I sold all my guns at the gun show. Receipts nah don't need them. So kiss my big white arse.

[Guest nraforlife]

Seriously officer I sold all my guns at the last Gun Show, honest cross my heart and hope to die. Yes sir officer sold them all for cash every last one of them. What you want a receipt, don't have any sorry. You ever been to a gun show officer? Receipts between individuals don't happen. Do I plan on buying another gun? No sir officer got me a restraining order from a judge saying no guns so I sure don't want to break the law.

You have a good night too officer.

[Guest Revelator]

Would we also ask where is there search warrant to look for assumed firearms?

Is the warrant implied when they serve the person with the order?

I pray I'm never in the situation but how does all of that work?

Kind of like the post awhile back when the "detective" showed up at the door asking about a "stolen" gun?

No such thing as an implied search warrant. If the authorities want to get a warrant they have to go before a judge and show probable cause. You don't forfeit your Fourth Amendment rights (to be free of unreasonable searches and seizures) just by being under a protection order. However, if a person's on probation they have to let their probation officer in their home upon demand, even without notice. But that's a little different than what you're talking about.

[NuTcAsE]

I think the person who takes out the order of protection should have to pay the fee upfront for you to store your guns. Then the courthouse can forward it to your dealer. Who cares what it costs.

[bubbiesdad]

Seriously officer I sold all my guns at the last Gun Show, honest cross my heart and hope to die. Yes sir officer sold them all for cash every last one of them. What you want a receipt, don't have any sorry. You ever been to a gun show officer? Receipts between individuals don't happen. Do I plan on buying another gun? No sir officer got me a restraining order from a judge saying no guns so I sure don't want to break the law.

You have a good night too officer.

I sold my guns to Mr. Gimore in January. I'm sorry sir, you can't get in touch with him, Mr. Gilmore passed away in Feb.

[threeshot]

No such thing as an implied search warrant. If the authorities want to get a warrant they have to go before a judge and show probable cause. You don't forfeit your Fourth Amendment rights (to be free of unreasonable searches and seizures) just by being under a protection order. However, if a person's on probation they have to let their probation officer in their home upon demand, even without notice. But that's a little different than what you're talking about.

Can you step us through what this would mean if the bill is put into law?

The bill would also require, as soon as that order is handed down, for the person served with the order to detail to the court exactly what kind of gun they gave, including the model and make. Once the order is over -- it usually lasts about a year -- the person can get their gun back.

I am thankfully not aware of the process for protection or restraining orders. So to novice, it seems like you are in court in front of the judge with the order is granted and at that very moment you have to declare the firearms you own to be surrendered.

[Fadex]

I think (not an attorney) it means that you would be required to submit a list of all of the firearms in your possession and turn them in to the authorities.

But like other have said, if you sold them all PTP, you no longer have anything to put on the list.

All the pics I posted were swiped from some other guy, too. Can't remember his site.

[DaveTN]

The “Domestic Violence” laws really started changing in the early 80’s and I had a big problem with it. As a Police Officer our discretion was taken away and we were forced to make an arrest if there was a claim by anyone.

Orders of Protection are a joke. You want to talk about a violation of your fourth amendment rights, how about being removed from your home and not being given any opportunity to address the court issuing the order? I have seen countless orders issued so that one party could clean out the house while the other party was not there.

There have been many innocent victims die because of this practice. There is absolutely no “Protection” in an Order of Protection.

Maybe Mr. Stegall can comment on what Tennessee law is, but as far as I know the Judge can order whatever he wants as far as disposition of firearms and always has been able to where I was from.

Also, if you are convicted of domestic violence I think some federal laws kick in that keep you from having guns; but I’m not positive on that.

And let me add this while I am on a roll…..

Cops are not social workers or ministers. If you live with someone that calls the cops on you…. Leave them.

And if you think that calling the cops on a family member will help them…. Get a grip.

No good comes from calling the cops to your own home when you can’t handle your family problems.

Edited March 8, 2009 by DaveTN

[Guest Revelator]

I could totally see a judge issuing an order for someone to turn in their weapons, or for the police to come in and get them. For instance, maybe the officers can go as far as knocking on the respondent's door, showing the signed order, of course announcing the reason for their visit, and requesting any firearms be turned over. But the order should not allow them to go and search for said firearms without the respondent's consent. But I don't know every little case. I'm sure it could happen, if it doesn't already. And from a practical standpoint, it wouldn't matter if a warrantless search was conducted unless something illegal (like drugs) was found. Then the illegal item could be supressed, but without it there's no harm/no foul. Kind of like if someone's arrested and not read their Miranda rights, if they didn't say anything incriminating it doesn't really matter.

Dave, I don't know if there's any specific Tennessee law on this; I'm just talking about the 4th Amendment. And yes, under Federal law a domestic violence conviction (as well as just an order of protection) makes it illegal for one to possess a gun or ammo. Section 922 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code.

[Guest canynracer]

given the choice...I would surrender to the firearms dealer, then call Patrick.