TFA analysis of permitless carry

[Grayfox54]

I got this link in e-mail the other day from TFA. Makes for interesting reading and explains why this is NOT Constitutional Carry. But still, questions remain. For example, we know this law doesn't allow carry in parks or greenways, but where else is a person prohibited from carrying under this law? This new law goes into effect very soon. I fear confusion of what it actually means will be a real problem.

https://tennesseefirearms.com/2021/06/tfas-analysis-of-governor-bill-lees-permitless-carry-law-and-why-to-avoid-it/

Edited June 23, 2021 by Grayfox54

[Quavodus]

I agree with what your saying. If people will just use their heads, everything will be fine. Some people don't though. 

[Defender]

With both  a Republican legislature and governor, you'd think we'd have true Constitutional carry as well as taking out of TCA that ridiculous 'intent to go armed' language.  What am I missing?

[mikegideon]

36 minutes ago, Defender said:

With both  a Republican legislature and governor, you'd think we'd have true Constitutional carry as well as taking out of TCA that ridiculous 'intent to go armed' language.  What am I missing?

With our Republican majorities, you would think we would have a lot of things. John is right on the money. It's aggravating that there are so many of them that are in the party just to win elections. They are what they call Republicans In Name Only.

[Chucktshoes]

The sooner you stop believing that Republicans care about your natural rights, including the right to self-defense, the sooner you’ll stop being shocked when they don’t act in your benefit.

[mikegideon]

2 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

The sooner you stop believing that Republicans care about your natural rights, including the right to self-defense, the sooner you’ll stop being shocked when they don’t act in your benefit.

Best I can tell, ALL politicians care more about themselves than anything else. Now, The Republicans do promise some things. And they are not against it.

But, I got no faith in any of them. There are just some that I don't totally hate.

[chances R]

without an ECP one cannot carry, as an employee, on a public college campus.  There are probably private schools that also require the same as well as a limited number of county public schools.

[No_0ne]

6 hours ago, mikegideon said:

Best I can tell, ALL politicians care more about themselves than anything else. Now, The Republicans do promise some things. And they are not against it.

Democrats make lots of promises to their fans too, many of which also go unfulfilled.  The true test for any politician, and party, is not what they say during election season, but what they actually do once elected.  Of course, election season is pretty much permanent, so there's that too ...

[Blitzen]

Grayfox54, thanks for uploading article link. It's frustrating that the "Constitutional Carry" and "2nd Sanctuary" laws will not protect Tennesseans 2nd Amendment rights like they should have been written to do. Having Republican control of both chambers and the Governor's desk at the same time is not an easy thing to do or maintain. Keeping red States red in the future is an uphill battle. Was an opportunity just squandered by our Republican controlled government? Most likely. Am I surprised? No. 

[brat]

7 hours ago, Blitzen said:

Keeping red States red in the future is an uphill battle.

Especially since there is an average of 75+ people moving to Nashville area every day, mostly from New Jersey and other northern states. Hopefully they are escaping the tyranny and not part of the "turn red states blue" movement.

[Randall53]

There are many people in this country that carry guns anywhere they want everyday and are not restricted at all by what the gun laws are. They probably number in the millions. They also commit armed robbery, murder, rape, sell drugs, rob banks, burglarize homes, jack cars and trucks, commit home invasions and such like. They will continue to carry guns anywhere they want everyday and will not be restricted  at all by what the gun laws are. They probably number in the millions. 

[Chucktshoes]

On 7/13/2021 at 8:36 AM, Randall53 said:

There are many people in this country that carry guns anywhere they want everyday and are not restricted at all by what the gun laws are. They probably number in the millions. They also commit armed robbery, murder, rape, sell drugs, rob banks, burglarize homes, jack cars and trucks, commit home invasions and such like. They will continue to carry guns anywhere they want everyday and will not be restricted  at all by what the gun laws are. They probably number in the millions. 

You are correct that there are many millions of people who carry every day regardless of what the gun laws are and in clear violation of them. 

I do however believe that it is unfair and incorrect to assume that because one chooses to carry in violation of the law they are also the type of person to violate the life liberty or property of others.

If the choice is to carry in violation of the law, or put oneself at risk and at the mercy of those who may decide that one is a target for which they wish to do harm there is no choice there at all.

“In the first place, it would efface from everybody’s conscience the distinction between justice and injustice.
No society can exist unless the laws are respected to a certain degree, but the safest way to make them respected is
to make them respectable. When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in
the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law—two evils of equal magnitude, between which it would be difficult to choose.” 
― Frédéric Bastiat, quote from The Law

Edited July 15, 2021 by Chucktshoes

[TennesseeCamper]

38 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

You are correct that there are many millions of people who carry every day regardless of what the gun laws are and in clear violation of them. 

I do however believe that it is unfair and incorrect to assume that because one chooses to carry in violation of the law they are also the type of person to violate the life liberty or property of others.

If the choice is to carry in violation of the law, or put oneself at risk and at the mercy of those who may decide that one is a target for which they wish to do harm there is no choice there at all.

“In the first place, it would efface from everybody’s conscience the distinction between justice and injustice.
No society can exist unless the laws are respected to a certain degree, but the safest way to make them respected is
to make them respectable. When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in
the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law—two evils of equal magnitude, between which it would be difficult to choose.” 
― Frédéric Bastiat, quote from The Laww

I remember a time when there wasn’t a legal carry option.

I have to admit I was partially wrong. I was unaware that prior  that “prior to 1989 a civilian could openly carry an army or navy revolver in the hand.  It could not be holstered or concealed.” 

Edited July 15, 2021 by TennesseeCamper

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, TennesseeCamper said:

I remember a time when there wasn’t a legal carry option.

I have to admit I was partially wrong. I was unaware that prior  that “prior to 1989 a civilian could openly carry an army or navy revolver in the hand.  It could not be holstered or concealed.” 

Just don’t do it in Brentwood. Please.

[KahrMan]

1 hour ago, Chucktshoes said:

Just don’t do it in Brentwood. Please.

It was Belle Meade….good times.

[Chucktshoes]

5 hours ago, KahrMan said:

It was Belle Meade….good times.

The bougie parts of Nashville kinda blend in together for me, but I knew one of y’all would get it.  

[TGO David]

9 hours ago, TennesseeCamper said:

I remember a time when there wasn’t a legal carry option.

I have to admit I was partially wrong. I was unaware that prior  that “prior to 1989 a civilian could openly carry an army or navy revolver in the hand.  It could not be holstered or concealed.” 

 

7 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

Just don’t do it in Brentwood. Please.

 

6 hours ago, KahrMan said:

It was Belle Meade….good times.

 

Oh boy.   Yeah, that's been exercised within the past 15 years as an attention stunt and attempt to joust with the legal system for personal gain. 

I genuinely hope that sad schmuck's life has improved to the point that he no longer sees a "wrongful death by cop" lawsuit as a way to provide for his family.  What a complete and utter cancer to the Second Amendment in Tennessee.

 

[Chucktshoes]

35 minutes ago, TGO David said:

 

 

 

Oh boy.   Yeah, that's been exercised within the past 15 years as an attention stunt and attempt to joust with the legal system for personal gain. 

I genuinely hope that sad schmuck's life has improved to the point that he no longer sees a "wrongful death by cop" lawsuit as a way to provide for his family.  What a complete and utter cancer to the Second Amendment in Tennessee.

 

I strongly suspect that were his antics continuing, even the half-assed permitless carry we now have would not have gotten through.

[FUJIMO]

He definitely put nut in nutjob

[Erik88]

Am I the only one that feels like some are making the permitless carry law out to be worse than it is? I know it's not perfect but it still seems like a huge step in the right direction.  I am hopeful they clean it up in the future. 

[Chucktshoes]

11 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

Am I the only one that feels like some are making the permitless carry law out to be worse than it is? I know it's not perfect but it still seems like a huge step in the right direction.  I am hopeful they clean it up in the future. 

Is it better than requiring a permit for carry at all, yes. It’s still needlessly vague, confusing and will quite likely result in someone getting hung up because they didn’t understand what it does and doesn’t do. I too am hopeful that it can be cleaned up and true constitutional carry enacted. 
 

 

[FUJIMO]

I feel like it's purposely confusing so that grey area will be what they use to attack it when something goes wrong they can tie back to it. 

I dont know about anyone else but I get asked at least once a week about carry laws. You wouldn't believe what some people think is illegal and then some that are surprised to learn what IS actually illegal and they've been breaking the law for years. 

Goes to show you how blissfully some people neander through life. 

[No_0ne]

On 7/13/2021 at 7:36 AM, Randall53 said:

There are many people in this country that carry guns anywhere they want everyday and are not restricted at all by what the gun laws are. They probably number in the millions. They also commit armed robbery, murder, rape, sell drugs, rob banks, burglarize homes, jack cars and trucks, commit home invasions and such like. They will continue to carry guns anywhere they want everyday and will not be restricted  at all by what the gun laws are. They probably number in the millions. 

And this is of course why we need to outlaw gun ownership by civilians.  Once owning all these guns is illegal, these criminals won't be able to carry them around and commit all these crimes ...

[billyblazes]

Although there are these recent changes to the TN law getting all the press, which so far seem to have been a non-event despite all the naysayers on the left and in the media predicting the streets would be running in blood, am I correct that nothing really changes for me using my Florida CWL with the benefit of reciprocity?

Open or concealed carry of my handgun is legal.  I may carry in establishments serving alcohol but I may not have the gun on me if I am consuming alcohol.  Signs barring guns have the force of law and apply to both open and concealed carry.  Do I have it correct?

Are long guns required to be encased while in a vehicle or may they be in the open?

[Chucktshoes]

You are correct on all points. 
 

Regarding the long gun, the statute does not specifically state it must be cased, so it’s up to you how you wish to transport it. That is of course since you are transporting it under your permit by TN Code, and not under FOPA rules.