Liability Insurance and Concealed Carry

[Skyhunter]

Good Day to ALL - !

Mr. Moderator, if I'm posting this in the wrong spot, please move as necessary.

 

I’ve been doing a bit of research regarding liability insurance for concealed carry. One organization that seems quite prominent for both training and liability insurance is US Concealed Carry Association (USCCA).

 

Does anyone have experience with these folks?

 

I’m interested in your experiences, experiences based on Firsthand Knowledge (not someone else's opinion based on 2nd or 3rd person thought or hearsay). 

 

If you don’t like them, what options, if any did you go to?

 

Thanks in advance.

WYT-P

Skyhunter

[DHF]

I don't have experience directly with USCCA except for attending some of the local education (recruiting) sessions they have done.  I believe they are reputable and you wouldn't be making a mistake going with them.

That said, I joined CCW Safe after spending a great deal of time comparing.  It is like so many other things, they all have some strengths that you wish the others also had.

After reading all the fine print, I concluded that CCW Safe had a higher probability of providing more coverage (criminal and civil), giving more say/choice in representation, had an advisory board of highly reputable individuals, etc...

The fact that USCCA has a lawsuit by a member and that USCCA had not issued a statement (at least not at the time of my decision) did not weigh in their favor.  Yes, I do understand that I do not know all the details, but it is concerning.

[Chucktshoes]

I have USCCA. I don’t make use of the training materials they offer, but carry them strictly for the insurance. I’ve never had to make use of their services, thank God, so I can’t say anything other than I liked their coverage options the best. 
 

 

*Thread moved to proper forum section.*

Edited June 10, 2021 by Chucktshoes

[Links2k]

1 hour ago, Chucktshoes said:

I have USCCA. I don’t make use of the training materials they offer, but carry them strictly for the insurance. I’ve never had to make use of their services, thank God, so I can’t say anything other than I liked their coverage options the best. 
 

 

*Thread moved to proper forum section.*

Same here

[pop pop]

I belong to the  Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. Much, much, cheaper that others and about the same benefits. Check them out 360-978-5200 and get a person to talk too. They are on the west coast time. I think I pay 89.00 per year but it is a little higher the first year Maybe 125 per year. 

[QuackerSmacker]

41 minutes ago, Links2k said:

Same here

Same here too.    [USCCA]

[DHF]

Here are a couple resources worth checking out that may help you decide.

The Virginia Citizens Defense League has a legal plan comparison you can download at:

https://vcdl.org/page/legal-plan-comparison

John Lovell speaking with Andrew Branca about various plans.

https://warriorpoetsociety.us/should-you-get-concealed-carry-insurance/

[chances R]

i have had USCCA for about 7yrs.  Them pulling coverage that led to the lawsuit concerns me.  Also limits set, especially with appeals concerns me.  I believe they don't cover civil concerns either.  With that, I am switching to CCW safe this August when my membership expires.

[pop pop]

None of these companies' plans are perfect. Biggest thing with Armed Citizens Defense Net, which I now am a member of,  is they reserve the right to review your case to make sure your situation is a true self defense case. Meaning you can not plan to go murder someone, call them up beforehand and join, all the while  planning to go commit that murder, then have them fund your defense. ACLDN is not a insurance program. It is a network of like minded individuals. 

Another is they will spend up to half their war chest of funds, which I think is about 1 .4 million now, on your case so there is a limit to their coverage.   To  me that amount (700,000.00) should/would fund an adequate defense, where I live, but my case must be actual self defense. One of the other major players (insurance companies) did pull the plug on a defense case, and is being sued now over what they did. So like I said, they are not perfect. All the companies require that you did not start the confrontation/fight. 

I will say, If I did not belong to Armed Citizens Defense Net, I would consider the CCW Safe program as a second choice although their fee is much more costly than ACLDN.  To each his own. 

DHF posted a link to the Worriorpoetsociety,  all who are interested in insurance, should watch the interview with Andrew Bracca. It is quiet informative and spot on. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by pop pop

[DHF]

I think that having an "insurance" policy in place is a great thing, especially if you carry outside the home.  I believe what is even more important is to increase your understanding of what is actually legal and how the legal forces that can work against you will analyze your actions.  Knowledge will make you a whole lot less likely to end up in a situation you where you need the coverage that you have. 

After really following Andrew Branca and watching him tear apart cases and incidents as well as content from Active Self Protection on YouTube, CCW Safe and others, it is amazing how I have learned.  I am constantly hearing people in our community who have been around a long time say things that are just not at all accurate (to put it nicely). 

Much of this information can be obtained for free or is generated by the companies and individuals associated with them, that we are discussing.

[Wheelgunner]

Whether to carry insurance (like this or of any kind generally) is a decision driven by risk analysis.  Here, presumably the two primary risk concerns are attorney fees and a money judgment against the individual in the context of a tort claim. 

There are some other steps that can probably reduce risk in these areas, relating, for example, to how you own real property, etc.  

Buying a policy is fine, but consider talking with your attorney before you decide that's the end of the analysis.

[billyblazes]

I've carried CCW Safe for years.  The recommendation of attorney John Gutmacher solidified my decision.  Like everyone else here, I hope I never need to put the coverage to the test.

[QuackerSmacker]

On 6/11/2021 at 1:20 PM, Wheelgunner said:

Whether to carry insurance (like this or of any kind generally) is a decision driven by risk analysis.  Here, presumably the two primary risk concerns are attorney fees and a money judgment against the individual in the context of a tort claim. 

There are some other steps that can probably reduce risk in these areas, relating, for example, to how you own real property, etc.  

Buying a policy is fine, but consider talking with your attorney before you decide that's the end of the analysis.

I agree with your premise, but there are attorneys that seriously specialize in this stuff.  I would say ---talk to two attorneys and you'll get at least three opinions.  I have a law degree.  That doesn't qualify me for anything. It just means I know a whole lot about a bunch of stuff that probably doesn't matter to almost anyone. 

This group of us has more specialized knowledge than any average attorney, as in WAY more knowledge.  We put way too much faith in the "get the opinion of an attorney" concept.  The average attorney has NO IDEA about firearms or any of the issues surrounding them.   So unless you can engage a an attorney specialist in this field, you're wasting your money.  If you just hire Joe Bloe, or Jane Bloe you're just paying for them to get (barely!) educated.    IMHO

[pop pop]

John L Harris is an attorney who runs TN Firearms Assoc(corrected) . He is knowledgeable in gun related field and gun laws in the state of TN and  around Nashville. He is also an associated attorney for the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Net, or was.  They have another associated attorney in Franklin TN but I don't have his info handy. ACLDN allows one to pick his attorney or, if you need assistance, helps to locate you one.  However you ,must do your part beforehand. (Give pertinent info at the scene, if you are forced into a situation, then keep your mouth shut until you contact a good attorney). 

 

Edited to add; Guys I look at this insurance as being no different than Homeowners or  Auto insurance. Why do you carry either? Because you are forced too, or is it to protect your merger(In my case)  assets from loosing them and then being forced to end up homeless, or worse loose your freedom, or both.  Most, if one is forced to get involved in an S D event, even if you are in the right, end up in serious financial debt afterwards.

At 73 years of age, and in my compromised physical condition, it would be hard for me to start over. That is why I need protection. And no, I don't want to try my Homeowners or Auto insurance either, aside from using S D coverage. Not much difference to loosing our home to fire and ending up homeless. Both situations are the same except one you may loose your freedom to walk among us. In Zimmerman's case in Florida, the State and Feds through the book at him. Could that be you?????

My decision is my yearly cost of 90.00 per year, to belong to ACLDN,  is not too much for me to have peace of mind in this area. I feel I have done my part in this arena. 

Just consider it. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by pop pop

[KahrMan]

30 minutes ago, pop pop said:

John L Harris is an attorney who runs TN Gunowners. 

John runs TFA not TGO. 

[DHF]

Just a little note that if thinking of speaking to someone about this, we are discussing Self-Defense and not Firearms law under this topic

I really don't care how many FFLs you've helped out, how many gun trusts you've completed, or how knowledgeable you are on SBRs, pistol braces or state regulations.  I want someone who can keep me from going to jail in a criminal case for defending myself.  Then someone with Civil Law experience so I can keep my assets.

I believe it was Andrew Branca who said something like, the three worse places to get Self-Defense advice:  The Internet, Cops, Lawyers.

The other attorney in the Franklin area may be Dana McLendon.

https://www.danamclendonlaw.com

Charles Chip Cain is in Franklin as well but I'm not sure if he handles criminal defense or just firearms related issues.

www.cain-law.com

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by DHF

[pop pop]

Sorry for the mistake Kahr Man.  I corrected the previous post. 

 

DHF, not to be argumentative, but TN law is what is going to allow your attorney to build your defense around, if you are a resident.  So it is "somewhat" important. Do you have an attorney now?  I have been trying to search out one should I be forced to use an attorney who specializes in an Affirmative Defense here in TN. 

 

Edited to add; John Y Brown was an attorney in Nashville, but not sure if he is still practicing. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by pop pop

[DHF]

Copy that pop pop.

You are correct, I wouldn't want just any Criminal Defense attorney, either.  I should have clarified.  Most have also just defended actual criminals as people like those of us who are  forums like this don't go around getting into trouble.  But I would want someone who understands what is legal when defending one self. Gun, knife, bat, open handed, whatever. So what one can do in these situations is far more important knowledge than general firearms law.

I would probably reach out to Dana McLendon first.  I know he has a lot of experience, is active in the gun community and I believe he is at least in USCCA's network.

I cannot recommend enough that everyone read Andrew Branca's book at the very least. Following his blog for awhile would help in addition. He dissects actual events so you can see where you would actually stand in real life senarios.

In our current environment there are a lot of people that would love to make an example of a nice juicy gun owner. We already see it happening around us.

Edited June 16, 2021 by DHF

[chances R]

One is looking at an initial atty retainer of 20k plus if arrested for felony. Got that laying around?  This is BEFORE trial; multiples of that if it actually goes to trial.  Plus bail money!  As I mentioned, I am switching from USCCA to CCW safe.  They actively participate in evaluating your chosen attorney.  They are ran by experienced staff.  One also has to be concerned about appeals and civil proceedings.  Not all options cover those expenses.  Education and avoidance are your best defense, and not just what you think you know from the internet.