Auto Manufacturers pushing synthetic oil? (I’m a bit long winded today)

[peejman]

Does anyone personally know someone who's experienced an oil related engine failure where the engine actually had oil in it at the time?  

[dralarms]

24 minutes ago, peejman said:

Does anyone personally know someone who's experienced an oil related engine failure where the engine actually had oil in it at the time?  

Actually yes, my wife had this old green Dodge Dart (the old style) with the slant 6 in it. Full of oil, oil pump quit and could tell because the lifters on the slant 6 always sounded the same. Drove it from Athens to Chattanooga and on the way back the oil light came on. Stopped, checked the oil. Figured it was the sensor since the oil was full. Got back to Athens, pulled into her moms house, shut it off, went to start it an hour later to go home and it was locked up tight. Luckily that style wasn’t hard to change the motor. 

[Garufa]

2 minutes ago, dralarms said:

Actually yes, my wife had this old green Dodge Dart (the old style) with the slant 6 in it. Full of oil, oil pump quit and could tell because the lifters on the slant 6 always sounded the same. Drove it from Athens to Chattanooga and on the way back the oil light came on. Stopped, checked the oil. Figured it was the sensor since the oil was full. Got back to Athens, pulled into her moms house, shut it off, went to start it an hour later to go home and it was locked up tight. Luckily that style wasn’t hard to change the motor. 

She really should have been using synth oil and fancy filters.  

[dralarms]

1 hour ago, Garufa said:

She really should have been using synth oil and fancy filters.  

Heck at the time I was lucky to be able to buy oil to go into it

[OldIronFan]

Had a spun bearing at 32k miles the dealer tried to blame on (lack of) oil changes. Much to their disappointment I pointed out that they sold me the car brand new and had done 8 oil changes in their own service department since I bought it. That average was well below their 5000 mile service recommendation.  

That is one reason I take it to the selling dealer if it is under warranty. Saved me an expensive engine replacement. After the warranty period is up I tend to take care of them myself. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by OldIronFan

[OldIronFan]

15 hours ago, dralarms said:

I’ve used nothing but K and n since 2007 on all my vehicles never had a problem. 

They are poorly constructed with poor materials. The history on leaking filter housings is well documented and readily available. I had two in a row fail. Like I said, there won't be a third try. 

[monkeylizard]

 

16 hours ago, Garufa said:

She really should have been using synth oil and fancy filters.  

I get the joke, but back in ye olden days we all ran 10w-30 dino oil and changed it every 3K miles and the spark plugs every other oil change. Speed Limits were 55mph or less. If the car made it to 75K miles, we were lucky and bragged about a car that lasted more than 100K. Now we have engines producing gobs more HP and torque per cubic inch, go 10K plus between oil changes,  and we feel cheated if our car we run at 80mph+ for hours at a time and punish in stop-n-go traffic doesn't go 200K without significant mechanical repairs. We don't start bragging until we get one to 300K.

All of that adds up to synth oil and fancy filters. A small price to pay, IMO to NOT go back to the bad old days of needing a repair kit with spare belts and hoses in the trunk.

I have used Bosch, Purolator Pure One, and Mobil1 and have no problem using any of those on a daily driver and going for a 10K OCI. I'm pretty sure Mobil1 is what's currently on 2 of mine. They're all way better than Fram basic and plenty for most needs. They're not as good as the top tier Napa Gold/Wix and Purolator Boss, but it's hard to say if the top-tier ones provide any actual benefits over the "plenty good" tier.

For a performance car/truck or something that sees harder driving, they're probably still fine since the OCI should be less, but since Napa Gold and Wix cost about the same as filters in that "plenty good" tier, I've switched over to those if I'm buying a filter individually. I'll use the "plenty good" tier if I'm buying oil too and the parts store has a bundle deal with the oil I want. I don't skimp on my cars' maintenance (oil, coolant, transmission fluid, etc.) or safety items (brakes, tires, wipers, brake fluid). It pays for itself in peace of mind (quality safety items) and longevity (quality fluids).

But I'm always open to new information. Seeing videos of cut open filters helped me understand what's good and bad about the brands. Watching videos of oil performance makes me question my exclusive use of Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge. Amazon Basics, Walmart's Super-Tech, and Costco's Kirkland Signature (all 3 appear to be the exact same thing) all look nearly as good as the higher priced ones I like. Even those budget-focused brands should be plenty good enough for today's engines for normal driving. I probably wouldn't use it in a track car. For now, I'm sticking with Mobil1 and Castrol, but that may change.

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by monkeylizard

[monkeylizard]

19 hours ago, gregintenn said:

What’s wrong with a Fram filter? I’ve used a bunch of them through the years. Never had an engine problem due to oil or filter.

They use cardboard end caps on the filter media instead of metal, use substandard materials for the seal and anti-drain back valve which hardens, have too few and too small holes for good oil flow, and have cheap tin and plastic spring plates instead of a steel coiled spring. The filter media itself is also more porous allowing particles to stay in the oil and keep cycling through your engine, and there's less of it. All of this mattered less on older cars with lower pressures and more forgiveness (ranging from higher tolerances to actual materials like iron vs aluminum).

The Fram Ultra is better, but it's not as good as the better ones. I'd use one if I had to, but would leave an old good quality filter on before I'd ever use a basic Fram. He cuts into a Fram at the 10:00 mark. Look at the cheap construction. Jump to 19:45 to see the amount of filter media in the Fram vs Wix.

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by monkeylizard

[papa61]

saw several comments on oil on sale/rebates and changing your own oil. I used to all of the time. then I found it to be less expensive to have it done. that also geys the vehicle up on a lift to more easily see other issues. with Buick sending me coupons for oil. filter and tire rotation for $40 I'm not crawling under it. yep, that is up to 6 quarts full synthetic.

[Quavodus]

5 hours ago, OldIronFan said:

Had a spun bearing at 32k miles the dealer tried to blame on (lack of) oil changes. Much to their disappointment I pointed out that they sold me the car brand new and had done 8 oil changes in their own service department since I bought it. That average was well below their 5000 mile service recommendation.  

That is one reason I take it to the selling dealer if it is under warranty. Saved me an expensive engine replacement. After the warranty period is up I tend to take care of them myself. 

Makes you wanna smack'em don't it.

[Grunt67]

Speaking of Wix filters, and synthetic oil, I learned something today, the rest may already know, but I'll mention it just in case.

Wix makes a filter just for synth. oil. it Has a XP after the part # . Bought one today for the F-150. # was 51372XP. For extended performance it says.

I'll give it a try next change.

FWIW

[Daniel]

You guys sold me on synthetic and wix filters.

[No_0ne]

On 5/6/2021 at 6:16 PM, peejman said:

Does anyone personally know someone who's experienced an oil related engine failure where the engine actually had oil in it at the time?  

Maybe, I have no idea what caused the final failure though.  Of course it was a '66 Ranchero with its original 289.  This was circa 1982, I was using it as a daily driver at the time.  Nice old car, somebody before me had done a decent restoration/renewal of the paint and interior, but the engine was old and tired.  As I recall, it was showing 20 something thousand on the odometer when it wheezed and died of old age.  Admittedly, I have no idea of the actual mileage, but I'm satisfied it had turned over at least once.  I doubt that the type, brand or condition of the oil and filter had much to do with it's death ...

I'm not including the various drag car motors I grenaded while full of oil ...

[Erik88]

On 5/6/2021 at 7:16 PM, peejman said:

Does anyone personally know someone who's experienced an oil related engine failure where the engine actually had oil in it at the time?  

Does sludge count? My friend just bought this older Volvo and didn't bother to check the oil before hand. Found out the hard way it was full of sludge. 

 

 

[monkeylizard]

Shell Rotella oil is reportedly good at breaking down sludge. If I had a neglected engine with sludge, I'd try running that through a couple of times at 1K mile intervals and see if I got any improvement.

[Garufa]

4 hours ago, Erik88 said:

Does sludge count? My friend just bought this older Volvo and didn't bother to check the oil before hand. Found out the hard way it was full of sludge. 

 

 

What is that unnatural looking hole?

[joe4vol]

8 minutes ago, Garufa said:

What is that unnatural looking hole?

Looks like an escape hatch for a connecting rod

[Erik88]

7 hours ago, joe4vol said:

Looks like an escape hatch for a connecting rod

That's exactly what it is. 

[peejman]

20 hours ago, monkeylizard said:

Shell Rotella oil is reportedly good at breaking down sludge. If I had a neglected engine with sludge, I'd try running that through a couple of times at 1K mile intervals and see if I got any improvement.

Adding a qt of Dextron III for 30 minutes or so helps too.