Slushee question for July: Shotguns: Pump or Auto?

[BimmerFreak]

well, thats 4 for autos so far..and only 2 for pumps, since Rabbi didn't say unequivocally that he would use a pump shotgun.

While my main HD/Tactical shotgun is a pump (FN Tactical Police Shotgun) I am liking autoloaders more and more.

I understand the argument and logic of the "rack-rack" to scare the bad guys...but I think that Hollywood is partly to blame for this.

If I am defending my life, property, or loved ones, I would prefer to reduce the threat via (if needed) lethal force, rather than let the bad guys know where I am at with the racking of the slide.

(I suggest keeping your shotgun locked and loaded in the same manner/condition that you keep your primary HD handgun)

I have a Franchi Law12, and im getting ready to pick up a M1 Super90 when the right deal comes along.

Once the M1S90 comes in (in SBS configuration) it will become my primary HD shotty.

[Marswolf]

I would prefer to reduce the threat via (if needed) lethal force, rather than let the bad guys know where I am at with the racking of the slide.

My thinking too.

I'm not really big on shotguns. It's not often you have zombie hoards break into your house. I see a shotgun as more needed for crowd control in the streets than inside the house. But given a choice, I'd rather have an automatic. Only advantage the pump gives is the nasty noise. And I don't think intimidation is a very good survival strategy.

[Schadenfreude]

If I want to create a nasty intimidating noise in the middle of the night I think I would just start my chainsaw!

[fury2neon]

Rabbi is still in the prototype stage with his revolving shotgun... until them he's soldiering on with this...

So Dan, are you going to start carrying these in the shop...

You know you don't want other shops to take away all the business you would get by stocking them...

[Branket]

If I want to create a nasty intimidating noise in the middle of the night I think I would just start my chainsaw!

:rofl:

I rarely laugh out loud when I read things on the internet but I got a hilarious picture in my head when I read this.

Oh and I vote pump because its what I can afford, but I would prefer a semi auto...in actuality I have neither unless you count an old winchester pump that belonged to my grandpa, but its not really in the state at the moment.

[Urse]

Pump although seriously considering a SAIGA 12.

[Guest c.a.s.]

My landlord have a caniption if this was ever brought up at the office...Anyone got a pack of AA's that I can borrow?

Practicality: Semi is easier to handle. Pump is more reliable.

Price: Who do you buy from? You might get a cheap semi.

That pretty much leaves it to preference. I haven't got to do much shotgunning, so I don't have much of a preference.

[Marswolf]

Here's what I want - AA12 Full Auto Shotgun.

Short version:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY3NsN2Ou30[/ame]

Long version:

[ame]

[/ame]

These are made locally in Piney Flatts. I shot one a couple of years ago. Very little recoil.

[Guest Len]

Can I change my vote to this? Muy cool, although I'd clearly have to raise my ammo budget...

Here's what I want - AA12 Full Auto Shotgun.

Short version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY3NsN2Ou30

Long version:

These are made locally in Piney Flatts. I shot one a couple of years ago. Very little recoil.

[shaftbass]

To the people who mentioned reliability of a pump vs auto, do you carry a revolver every day, or a semi-auto pistol? If you said semi-auto, you're a huge hypocrite because a semi-auto pistol is much more likely to jam vs a semi-auto shotgun, yet you trust your life every day to a semi-auto pistol.

I'll take a semi-auto shotgun. Pumps are reliable, but so are semi-auto shotguns. I may not have shot as many shotguns as some people here, but I can say that I've never witnessed a semi-auto shotgun jam/malfunction.

[TGO David]

I've jammed a Benelli before.

[The Rabbi]

To the people who mentioned reliability of a pump vs auto, do you carry a revolver every day, or a semi-auto pistol? If you said semi-auto, you're a huge hypocrite because a semi-auto pistol is much more likely to jam vs a semi-auto shotgun, yet you trust your life every day to a semi-auto pistol.

I'll take a semi-auto shotgun. Pumps are reliable, but so are semi-auto shotguns. I may not have shot as many shotguns as some people here, but I can say that I've never witnessed a semi-auto shotgun jam/malfunction.

Yeah! Right on!

And yeah I do carry a revolver daily.

Part of it, imo, is simply familiarity. People who carry semis probably have put hundreds if not thousands of rounds through either that particular gun or others of the same type. If I had that much experience with a semi auto shotgun I would probably have enough confidence in one to use it for HD.

But I don't. I doubt a lot of people have shot as many rounds through their shotgun as they have through their pistol.

[Marswolf]

Here are a few reviews of the AA-12, or Google "Jerry Baber" who now makes the gun.

http://www.geekswithguns.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=445

http://www.defensereview.com/article741.html

http://armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/?s=2005_main1

Jerry is a brilliant engineer and took Max Atchisson's Atchisson Assault-12 (AA-12) and reworked it into a reliable weapon. They basically don't need cleaning, although that is easy to do. He says the residue lubricates the weapon. One of his gun has thousands of rounds through it without cleaning. He's also been known to dunk the gun into a tank of water, shake it off and fire immediately. He has worked for years in investment casting and also makes the Thunder-5 pistol which is almost all cast.

If you ever get by his shop to fire the AA-12, you will probably have to listen to a long engineering talk about some of the changes he made. Last time I heard it was around 250 changes to Atchisson's design.

I have a military friend in the Philippines who has one of the Atchisson weapons. He reworked it himself to make it reliable. He has confirmed that a few squads of elite military there have the new AA-12s.

It's a really nice weapon. Jerry has had some trouble selling them to the US military or LE agencies. I think it is basically a solution that needs a problem. While it is sexy and neat, how many places could you really use a fully auto shotgun rather than a semi?

[Mark@Sea]

It figures - I picked door # 3. The at-home ready shotgun is an external hammer double barrel coach gun. No long-term stress on springs, etc. Safely stored for long periods of time with rounds in the chamber (and cotton balls at the loud end). Very user-friendly in stressful conditions. No really-identifiable warning noises, a plus for me; while racking a shotgun might tell an intruder he's just made a big mistake, it also says "Here I am!" - your mileage may vary.

That said, in the pump vs auto debate, for mechanical reliability and stress reaction I would prefer a pump gun.

[Guest dotsun]

It's a really nice weapon. Jerry has had some trouble selling them to the US military or LE agencies. I think it is basically a solution that needs a problem. While it is sexy and neat, how many places could you really use a fully auto shotgun rather than a semi?

A perfectly elegant tool for fighting off a roving horde of rabid squirrels.

[Marswolf]

A perfectly elegant tool for fighting off a roving horde of rabid squirrels.

I'll tell him that this has been suggested.

[Guest tjbert47]

I'd gladly trade my 1300 for an autoloader if I could find one with 8 shot capacity.

Tom in TN

[dcloudy777]

Most popular autoloaders can use magazine extentions to hold 8 rounds or more. My 21" 1100 holds 8+1... but I don't want to trade ya!

DanO

[BimmerFreak]

Most popular autoloaders can use magazine extentions to hold 8 rounds or more. My 21" 1100 holds 8+1... but I don't want to trade ya!

DanO

+1 on not wanting to trade for a 1300.

Have you lookd at the FN autoloader?

Pure badass and 9 shot capacity.

[Urse]

For me I think it is about familiarity. An 870 is the shotgun I have been shooting since I was a kid. There are alot of very cool autoloaders out there tops on that list for me is probably the Benelli M4. I like the Saiga 12 because I am a Kalashnikov freek even though it recoils like a mule. I saw the AA12 on Discovery's Future Weapons about 6 months ago but I will never be able to own one(cool though). So for me I will stick with whats comfortable. Oh and I keep mine loaded on safe. Counting on someone being terrified by the mere sound of the action is a bunch of crap.

[Guest yankeegonesouthern]

I will say pump because that is all I have(3 mossturds). I don't want the badguy to hear me and he won't. My oldest pump is so worn/smooth that I can slowly pump a round in with no noise(I do have to use my finger to quiet the round going in but if a deer a 15 yards doesn't hear it then I doubt a badguy would. Plus I just can't see someone sticking around for a second 3 1/2 turkey mag load.

[TGO David]

Our HD shotgun is a Remington 870 "HD" model and of course a pump. I keep a round in the chamber, so racking the slide to warn an intruder isn't something that I am particularly worried about.

[Guest Papabear]

One more for an autoloader. I have been shooting a 1100 as my primary hunting gun for so long it is just second nature to use it for my home also. No special accessories on the one for home except for swapping out the 28" barrel for a 21" just to make it a little easier to handle for my wife.

Nothing wrong with a pump gun either. It's my opinion you use the type of weapon you are most familiar with. If you have used a Pump gun for years you will lean towards one for other uses. Only issue I have ever seen with a pump gun is at times people get under stress or frustrated and will short stroke the action jamming the gun up.

I think whatever type of gun you pick auto or pump the key is being familiar with the gun to the point you are comfortable with it. But this is good advice for any kind of firearm.

[Donnie]

So Joe, when you get the M1S90 are you going to let me get the Franchi Law12 from you???

[molonlabetn]

I think that one should have both, but I'm leaning towards getting another auto for HD... I used to have a Benelli M1 tactical, and I miss it (I didn't think that I would).