Handgun shooting problem

[gregintenn]

I am left handed. Lately, I have noticed that while all my 22lr chambered handguns shoot to point of aim. I have begun shooting harder recoiling handguns to the right. The harder the recoil, the further right they shoot. No doubt the problem lies with me and not the handgun. What am I doing wrong, and why am I not having this problem with 22s?

[Wheelgunner]

I believe that while high or low shots generally are the result of uncontrolled breathing, shots to one side or the other of target are normally related to trigger pull technique. 

[DWARREN123]

Put a little more finger on the trigger and see if that does not help.

Usually shooting to the side is not enough finger on the trigger, pushing the pistol to the side.

[gregintenn]

It almost has to be something to do with recoil anticipation.

[krunchnik]

Somewhere out there is a pie with the corrections printed on it-I think when looking at the pie if your a south paw just do the opposite.

[billmeek]

[RED333]

17 hours ago, gregintenn said:

It almost has to be something to do with recoil anticipation.

Dry fire a few spent cases, try to get by the anticipation thing. Load a few lite rounds as well to work with.

Edited April 26, 2021 by RED333

[Dirtshooter]

I don't know if most folks know it, but it is 6 times more difficult to accurately shoot a pistol. Greg I would suggest doing a lot of dry firing and like Red said try some powder puff loads. I know if I don't practice a bunch I have a hard time keeping it centered.

[gregintenn]

I have found in the past that if I shoot almost daily, I can shoot pretty accurately, but that ability goes away fast if I go a while without shooting.

[gregintenn]

17 hours ago, billmeek said:

That's what I was looking for. Thanks. It confirms my suspicions. Now to fix it.....

[deerslayer]

A couple questions—

What kind of gun are you shooting?  Polymer auto?  Stock trigger?

Can you track the front sight throughout the recoil impulse?  
 

Could be a couple things going on.  If possible, post a pic of your grip.  How do you press the trigger?  We need to press straight back and a lefty pressing at even a slight angle (left-front to right-rear) can send shots right.  Too little trigger finger can sometimes exacerbate this.  Does it get worse with increased target distance?  A quick trick is to put some weak-side thumb pressure on the frame.  Does this help?  If so, it may indicate a not-quite-straight-back trigger press.  

You may have developed a slight flinch.  Do you shoot right when shooting a slow group or does this problem show up when you start shooting faster?  Can you follow the front sight as it lifts and settles back in the rear notch?  Most people can’t.  If not, do you quickly re-acquire front sight as it settles?  A drill to help avert a flinch is to fire a precise shot and follow or re-acquire the front sight as it settles, prep the trigger, focus on the sight picture, but don’t fire a second shot.  Some would describe this whole process as simply firing a shot, because follow through and setting up a second shot is all part of the firing cycle.  Whatever we call it, it can gradually train away flinches.  

Edited April 26, 2021 by deerslayer

[Cruel Hand Luke]

The width of the grip of the pistol and where the trigger finger is in relation to the trigger and the grip can effect things too.

I'm guessing your 22 has a pretty thin grip. But if your " harder recoiling handgun" is a double stack gun like a Sig 226 or a Glock 17 (or even worse a Glock 21) it could be a combination of the way your hand fits the grip combined with trigger finger placement. I'd really need to see all the variables at play to make a proper diagnosis. 

[gregintenn]

11 minutes ago, Cruel Hand Luke said:

The width of the grip of the pistol and where the trigger finger is in relation to the trigger and the grip can effect things too.

I'm guessing your 22 has a pretty thin grip. But if your " harder recoiling handgun" is a double stack gun like a Sig 226 or a Glock 17 (or even worse a Glock 21) it could be a combination of the way your hand fits the grip combined with trigger finger placement. I'd really need to see all the variables at play to make a proper diagnosis. 

I shoot many different guns, but I’ll make it simple. I can shoot a model 18 Smith and Wesson (22lr) to point of aim all day long. Replace it with a model 19 (357 mag), and I’m shooting to the right. Same frame, grip, weight, etc.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

OK .

If the frames and grips are EXACTLY the same then it is probably not the hand to gun fit. So try gripping harder with your support hand . The recoil impulse is going to seek the path of least resistance and if you are not gripping the right side of the gun with enough force the gun can move  that way as soon as the primer ignites. So try applying more grip with the right hand and report back to us. 

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, Cruel Hand Luke said:

OK .

If the frames and grips are EXACTLY the same then it is probably not the hand to gun fit. So try gripping harder with your support hand . The recoil impulse is going to seek the path of least resistance and if you are not gripping the right side of the gun with enough force the gun can move  that way as soon as the primer ignites. So try applying more grip with the right hand and report back to us. 

I’d bet I am shoving the gun in anticipation of recoil. I’ll get it worked out. I just need to shoot more. I’ve fixed it in the past. Just not sure why it keeps cropping back up.  

[Chucktshoes]

26 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I’d bet I am shoving the gun in anticipation of recoil. I’ll get it worked out. I just need to shoot more. I’ve fixed it in the past. Just not sure why it keeps cropping back up.  

Have you been shooting significantly less lately due to cost and availability the of ammo

[gregintenn]

9 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Have you been shooting significantly less lately due to cost and availability the of ammo

Mainly because I'm lazy and have been doing other things.

[Chucktshoes]

4 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Mainly because I'm lazy and have been doing other things.

I suspect you’ve found the cause of your perishing skill. 

[gregintenn]

4 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

I suspect you’ve found the cause of your perishing skill. 

Right, but I find it frustrating that I can hit with a rifle without practice. I remember bows were a similar thing. You had to put in some time woth them regularly to stay proficient.

[Quavodus]

12 hours ago, gregintenn said:

I have found in the past that if I shoot almost daily, I can shoot pretty accurately, but that ability goes away fast if I go a while without shooting.

I'm the same way. I used to shoot one of my .357's a lot. I don't shoot it much anymore, and the last few times I have, I wasn't all that great.

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

Right, but I find it frustrating that I can hit with a rifle without practice. I remember bows were a similar thing. You had to put in some time woth them regularly to stay proficient.

Handguns are hard to shoot well. They take a lot of continuing practice to maintain proficiency. Without it, the skill perishes quickly. Rifles are much easier and more intuitive to shoot. With their 4 points of contact, basic skills are much longer lasting. I don’t get to practice a whole lot because of being gone so often. Every time I get to shoot and train I feel like I’m struggling to reacquire the most basic level of proficiency to even feel comfortable carrying a gun at all. 
 

I hate it. 

[gregintenn]

On 4/26/2021 at 8:39 AM, deerslayer said:

A couple questions—

What kind of gun are you shooting?  Polymer auto?  Stock trigger?

Can you track the front sight throughout the recoil impulse?  
 

Could be a couple things going on.  If possible, post a pic of your grip.  How do you press the trigger?  We need to press straight back and a lefty pressing at even a slight angle (left-front to right-rear) can send shots right.  Too little trigger finger can sometimes exacerbate this.  Does it get worse with increased target distance?  A quick trick is to put some weak-side thumb pressure on the frame.  Does this help?  If so, it may indicate a not-quite-straight-back trigger press.  

You may have developed a slight flinch.  Do you shoot right when shooting a slow group or does this problem show up when you start shooting faster?  Can you follow the front sight as it lifts and settles back in the rear notch?  Most people can’t.  If not, do you quickly re-acquire front sight as it settles?  A drill to help avert a flinch is to fire a precise shot and follow or re-acquire the front sight as it settles, prep the trigger, focus on the sight picture, but don’t fire a second shot.  Some would describe this whole process as simply firing a shot, because follow through and setting up a second shot is all part of the firing cycle.  Whatever we call it, it can gradually train away flinches.  

Oddly, I cannot follow the front sight on a big bore revolver. Hard as I try, it just disappears for a split second when then gun fires.

You were correct. I wasn't correctly following through. I'm hitting the center now. I just need to figure out a way to program this into my brain long term. I'm sure that means a lot of shooting.

 

Thanks to everybody for the help.

[chances R]

On 4/26/2021 at 8:42 PM, gregintenn said:

Right, but I find it frustrating that I can hit with a rifle without practice. I remember bows were a similar thing. You had to put in some time woth them regularly to stay proficient.

Physics...6-8 lb rifle with a 3-4 lb trigger pull, vs. a  2lb gun with a 6lb trigger pull causes inherit  difficulties.

[gregintenn]

7 minutes ago, chances R said:

Physics...6-8 lb rifle with a 3-4 lb trigger pull, vs. a  2lb gun with a 6lb trigger pull causes inherit  difficulties.

Yep... plus geometry. A shorter sight radius and less stability really shows any flaw in one’s form.

I want to pick one up and shoot like Jerry Miculek, but it just ain’t gonna happen.

Edited May 9, 2021 by gregintenn

[deerslayer]

On 5/8/2021 at 2:46 PM, gregintenn said:

Oddly, I cannot follow the front sight on a big bore revolver. Hard as I try, it just disappears for a split second when then gun fires.

You were correct. I wasn't correctly following through. I'm hitting the center now. I just need to figure out a way to program this into my brain long term. I'm sure that means a lot of shooting.

 

Thanks to everybody for the help.

It is definitely a perishable skill.