Governor OKs toughest migrant-hire law in U.S

[fury2neon]

I love Economic Discussions... I guess thats why I am a Financial Analyst (except when my wife makes me help in her restaurant)...

By the way with over 100 years of data on minimum wages from around the world it can be conclusively stated that raising the min wage puts low income workers out of work and moves middle income people into the lower incomes. And said min wages insures the gap between rich and poor continues to increase. Our nation has been fortunate that the innovations introduced have allowed our standard of living to increase even as our politicians have been trying to lower said standard of living through price controls, min wages and draconian regulations.

The high cost of living in most "high rent" areas is due to cost controls on housing as shown in almost every text written by Dr. Thomas Sowell, PHD Economics. The government raises the price of housing by controlling the amount of land available for use by the public. This leads to higher salaries but a lower standard of living. One example not relate to housing but to labor laws is that I made more when I worked in Detroit but I could not afford as much as I can in TN due to MI bad labor laws which drove up the price of everything. Government interference with the market only hurts lower and middle income earners.

Yes, I am a capitalist PIG and proud of it because without capitalism there would be no cars, planes, computers or fridges... There would still be guns because governments have uses for those too, just to terrorize their citizens as seen on international TV, unlike us who want to use them to keep our families safe and keep others, even government from terrorizing us.

Our founding fathers never imagined the tremendous leap in technology we have experienced but they did understand that government stifles the human spirit and innovation. I proud to live in this land that was established on the idea of minimal government control and wish we could return to more of our founder ideas from the socialist mess we are slowly creeping into.

Of course if you are of the other opinion, Socialism has only killed 100 million people lets give it another try! You can have it I prefer FREEWILL!

[The Rabbi]

It just stands to reason: raise the price of something by setting an artificial floor and you will create surpluses by artificially reducing demand. I dont care whether it is milk or basic labor. This extends as well to illegal immigration. The illegals come here because there is economic incentive and a shortage of affordable labor in some industries. If you let the price of that labor float to market rates then the shortage would disappear.

This is why I say anyone unfamiliar with an LX diagram doesnt need to debate this issue.

[towerclimber37]

I say we deport them all to liberia..you get 20 million illegal immigrants floating around in Liberia, a couple of things would happen.

1. they'd either get their butts shot off really quick or they would adapt.

2. I don't think they would trot their butts over the border again if they knew they were going to hell on earth if they got caught.

[fury2neon]

Increasing the Minimum wage makes people feel good and when it passes you never see the damage it causes years down the road so the politicians just claim that it needs to be raised again once the damage starts to appear. Increasing the min wage is an easy way for politicians to buy votes and an easy way to increase the power of government with little complaint except of course from the economically educated. But then they are always shouted down as being heartless.

Oh btw the current economic expansion is a year longer than the four year expansion during the Clinton admin. Most news people include the first two years of the economic collapse that began in 1998 and ended in early 2002. The economy expanded from 94 to 98 due to the massive amount of computer innovation and complete lack SEC monitoring of businesses, hence ERON and Global Crossing. This meant that most of the expansion was based on cooked books rather than real production. Since 2001 the SEC and justice department has started investigating fraud again rather than prosecuting government setup monopolies, hence the prosecution of ENRON execs and others. The economy was starting to recover in June and July of 2001 but then other events caused a massive market contraction.

I do think its funny that the 4.3% unemployment numbers of the past couple of years is seen as massive unemployment while the 4.8% best unemployment number of the Clinton years was considered full employment.

[Guest Len]

I'm done.

This is going nowhere, and its not even about guns. Congress raised the minimum wage, its over. I predict no economic calamity nor job shortages. I heard all the same arguments the last time around, and somehow we managed to have the biggest economic growth spurt since WWII.

We operate at near-full employment, teenage unemployment is often due to choice (they dont want the jobs that are out there -who can blame them), and education and training will help solve the power imbalance in the economy at the low end. I see nothing wrong with govt helping ensure the low end of the economic power curve, when it also ensures the high end -much govt. policy is dictated by business interests. If we are going to meddle, at least let us do it at both ends of the scale.

As for socialism killing 100,000,000 people, please... Socialist economic policy may not be perfect or even in the ballpark, but to equate Hitler and Stalin with what in the end is just a greater degree of control over the economy than we have here is disingenuous. Most of Europe, Canada, much of South America seem to be under more-or-less socialist forms of govt. They seem to be surviving, even thriving. (Anyone see the latest Euro/Dollar exchange rates, the dollar is looking pretty grim!)

The tension between different ideas about the role of govt is fascinating, and basically the cause of every debate on TGO. Let history be the judge of which side of the fence is right. I'm comfortable with where I've laid my money, and content to stop talking and wait.

Now, how 'bout a nice old-fashioned caliber war!

[towerclimber37]

hahahahah

ok...whats the largest caliber round that you own Len?

[fury2neon]

Yes, I am an Accountant...

Because I have too much personality to be an Economist.

[DaveTN]

Now, how 'bout a nice old-fashioned caliber war!

Only girlymen use 9mm’s. Real men use .45ACP.

That is all.

[towerclimber37]

ok..then that makes me king KONG!!!!

That is a 25mm AP round from a bushmaster.

on my tv

I found it when I was rummaging around in my old army box...*sigh*

[The Rabbi]

I'm done.

This is going nowhere, and its not even about guns. Congress raised the minimum wage, its over. I predict no economic calamity nor job shortages. I heard all the same arguments the last time around, and somehow we managed to have the biggest economic growth spurt since WWII.

We operate at near-full employment, teenage unemployment is often due to choice (they dont want the jobs that are out there -who can blame them), and education and training will help solve the power imbalance in the economy at the low end. I see nothing wrong with govt helping ensure the low end of the economic power curve, when it also ensures the high end -much govt. policy is dictated by business interests. If we are going to meddle, at least let us do it at both ends of the scale.

As for socialism killing 100,000,000 people, please... Socialist economic policy may not be perfect or even in the ballpark, but to equate Hitler and Stalin with what in the end is just a greater degree of control over the economy than we have here is disingenuous. Most of Europe, Canada, much of South America seem to be under more-or-less socialist forms of govt. They seem to be surviving, even thriving. (Anyone see the latest Euro/Dollar exchange rates, the dollar is looking pretty grim!)

The tension between different ideas about the role of govt is fascinating, and basically the cause of every debate on TGO. Let history be the judge of which side of the fence is right. I'm comfortable with where I've laid my money, and content to stop talking and wait.

Now, how 'bout a nice old-fashioned caliber war!

Yes, you are done. Your position has been shown to be untenable and your arguments refuted. Your side which proclaims to have the interests of the underclass at heart in fact does its utmost to undermine those same interests and deny opportunity to millions.

You profess to be happy that min wage jobs are disappearing. The alternative for such people is not faculty positions at Harvard or computer science engineering courses or even police positions. The alternative is welfare. Keeping them dumb and down on the gov't plantation seems to be the effect of Democratic Party policies over the last 40 years.

Further this section is the Matters of Opinion section, so it need not be about guns. There are other sections to discuss caliber wars and AK vs ARs.

As for socialism, there is difference only in degree between Stalin and modern West European socialism. Both of them consolidate state power, first economic and then political and personal, to the state. It is a slippery slope from Chirac and Schroeder to Chavez and Castro.

Freedom everywhere will ultimately triumph because it is the natural state of man. You cannot deny economic freedom and have a productive society, as communism in E. Europe showed. You also cannot grant economic freedom and deny personal freedom, as the Chinese are learning now. It is all one.

[towerclimber37]

Your side which proclaims to have the interests of the underclass at heart in fact does its utmost to undermine those same interests and deny opportunity to millions.

You profess to be happy that min wage jobs are disappearing. The alternative for such people is not faculty positions at Harvard or computer science engineering courses or even police positions. The alternative is welfare.

No, actually the alternative is to change your mindset, allow new ideas into that thick noggin and go back to school...and then find a better job!

those "minimum wage earners" that you talk about, that come here illegally, cost us 89,000 dollars each over their lifetime simply because they're too effing stupid to go back and LEARN something. and thats over and above what they would earn themselves.

yes yes, I'm one of those EVIL right wingers that believe in hard work. My brother went to school and managed a batchelors degree after working all day..he worked sometimes 16 hours a day and did it. now he earns about 120k per year. (no, not mark@C...another brother)

I'm proud of him for that...and it also shows that YOU don't know what you're talking about.

If you want a better life you have to work for it..that means learning enough to GET a better life.

Freedom everywhere will ultimately triumph because it is the natural state of man. You cannot deny economic freedom and have a productive society, as communism in E. Europe showed. You also cannot grant economic freedom and deny personal freedom, as the Chinese are learning now. It is all one.

thats horse crap..freedom is not a "natural state". its simply the one WE are in at the moment. History shows that the natural state of man is to tend towards all sorts of nasty acts and ways of life..if you don't believe that, you haven't read much history.

Have you been reading some cockamamie writers again?

[The Rabbi]

I think you need to check your meds if you believe that any of my posts in argument on this had anything to do with illegal immigration. I do not know what you are spouting off about.

[towerclimber37]

I think you need to check your meds if you believe that any of my posts in argument on this had anything to do with illegal immigration. I do not know what you are spouting off about.

I realize you don't... I was "spouting off about minimum wage earners."

*sigh* I'm not going to say anymore, I'm out of the conversation too...

and if you want to be insulting, Pm me..I'll be happy to hurt your feelings...otherwise.. make nice nice with the other folks.

[The Rabbi]

What';s wrong with min wage earners? They are out working adding to the economy. They pay taxes. Presumably at some point they will want to make more money doing something else. I have much more for someone making min wage than for someone sitting around on welfare waiting for his next gov't check.