Status of "Constitutional Carry" in TN.

[papa61]

2 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

I'm not your enemy.   We are on the same side and want the same thing.   But you and your boss seem to be idealists.   You want it all or you are just unhappy.

Remember, we must all hang together or we will be hung separately. Yes, I want it all and will continue to push to have our rights restored. Yes, we have to take what we can get but that doesn't mean to be satisfied.

[TN Native]

Is this bill as great as it should have been? No. Are we better with this bill than without it? Yes. 
 

I am still surprised this governor was willing to push this bill at all. Tennessee governors tend to be moderates, regardless of party, and a change of this magnitude is not usually something they will promote. They might acquiesce to it, but usually will not promote it. My read on this situation is that the governor told the leadership “this far and no farther” on this one.  He seems to be willing to appear more conservative than the usual Tennessee governor, but he is not going to push for what he sees as “radical” change.
 

One other positive: I think what just passed may ease the ability to adjust the law toward what it should be without as much fanfare in the future. After six months of permitless carry without the ever-predicted carnage in the streets, we may see some “corrections” passed in the next session to address issues like carry in parks and other differences from the enhanced permit. Of course, they could just ignore these issues altogether, but lately it seems they like to tweak the carry laws almost every year. 

[Defender]

I guess im kinda slow, but what exactly does this law get  for the average citizen vs, for an enhanced HCP holder?

[Capbyrd]

13 minutes ago, Defender said:

I guess im kinda slow, but what exactly does this law get  for the average citizen vs, for an enhanced HCP holder?

A person in TN that meets the requirements to get a permit, can carry legally without a permit.   Some of the progress that has recently been made for permit holders, guns in parks for instance, will not extend to a permitless carrier.  


The fight hasn't stopped.   We still have a little ways to go to get this to be true constitutional carry but this was the largest bite.  

[Defender]

50 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

A person in TN that meets the requirements to get a permit, can carry legally without a permit.   Some of the progress that has recently been made for permit holders, guns in parks for instance, will not extend to a permitless carrier.  


The fight hasn't stopped.   We still have a little ways to go to get this to be true constitutional carry but this was the largest bite.  

Thanks.  I have a lifetime Retired LEO permit, but I believe in constitutional carry. I think we need to continue the fight, but like someone said above, little bites are better than no bites.

[Capbyrd]

11 minutes ago, Defender said:

Thanks.  I have a lifetime Retired LEO permit, but I believe in constitutional carry. I think we need to continue the fight, but like someone said above, little bites are better than no bites.

This has been my stance from the get go.   Rather than chastise people for what we didn't get, we take what we can and continue to fight.  

[NwoSlave]

I watched the video and wanted to know what other peoples opinions are on providing free training classes. 

also i have to laugh at the notion from the memphis rep this would be a temptation for criminals. the naivety is off the chart. 

[Worriedman]

10 minutes ago, NwoSlave said:

I watched the video and wanted to know what other peoples opinions are on providing free training classes. 

also i have to laugh at the notion from the memphis rep this would be a temptation for criminals. the naivety is off the chart. 

I think we should have gun safety training in grade school. too may children are never around any instruction with regard to firearms, as opposed to most of us old hands that, TFA supported that bill in the House it got killed quickly.  Take some of that money they are collection and not spending to fix our roads and have those at least as elective classes as well in secondary schools.

 

[Capbyrd]

30 minutes ago, NwoSlave said:

I watched the video and wanted to know what other peoples opinions are on providing free training classes. 

also i have to laugh at the notion from the memphis rep this would be a temptation for criminals. the naivety is off the chart. 

Antonio Parkinson is actually my representative and I fully intend to contact him and see what we can put together.   The sticking point for me is going to be where the money comes from.   I support a system like this but financing is going to be my big yay or nay point.   I'm anxious to see what Representative Parkinson and I can come up with, assuming that he is actually willing to put this forward and wasn't just talk for the camera.  If that turns out to be the case, I'll contact Representative Lamberth.  

 

[Worriedman]

I find this interesting, pasted on a Legislators FB page.

I would interested in were he got the date mentioned for Tennessee, and the long guns, I think not. Constitution of the Union was ratified in 1788, and TN became a State in 1796?  Bill of rights was ratified by Virginia on that date but what does it have to do with a non-existent State?

Edited March 30, 2021 by Worriedman

[JayC]

@Worriedman what is the effective date of this law?  When signed, or July 1st?

[Capbyrd]

9 minutes ago, JayC said:

@Worriedman what is the effective date of this law?  When signed, or July 1st?

July 1st.  

[NwoSlave]

41 minutes ago, Worriedman said:

I think we should have gun safety training in grade school. too may children are never around any instruction with regard to firearms, as opposed to most of us old hands that, TFA supported that bill in the House it got killed quickly.  Take some of that money they are collection and not spending to fix our roads and have those at least as elective classes as well in secondary schools.

 

i would fully support something like that but we cant forget about the adults out of school also.

 

23 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

Antonio Parkinson is actually my representative and I fully intend to contact him and see what we can put together.   The sticking point for me is going to be where the money comes from.   I support a system like this but financing is going to be my big yay or nay point.   I'm anxious to see what Representative Parkinson and I can come up with, assuming that he is actually willing to put this forward and wasn't just talk for the camera.  If that turns out to be the case, I'll contact Representative Lamberth.  

 

money is an issue especially when not every adult is incapable of paying for a class, all providers are not the same price and how do you ensure the companies dont abuse the system to overbill the government. cause you know its the government. those are just some considerations im thinking of off the top of my head. i do think it is a worthy cause to invest in. 

 

[Capbyrd]

4 minutes ago, NwoSlave said:

i would fully support something like that but we cant forget about the adults out of school also.

 

money is an issue especially when not every adult is incapable of paying for a class, all providers are not the same price and how do you ensure the companies dont abuse the system to overbill the government. cause you know its the government. those are just some considerations im thinking of off the top of my head. i do think it is a worthy cause to invest in. 

 

I have some ideas on funding that don't require any tax dollars but I won't share those until I can research farther and speak with some politicians.  

 

[JayC]

1 hour ago, NwoSlave said:

i would fully support something like that but we cant forget about the adults out of school also.

 

money is an issue especially when not every adult is incapable of paying for a class, all providers are not the same price and how do you ensure the companies dont abuse the system to overbill the government. cause you know its the government. those are just some considerations im thinking of off the top of my head. i do think it is a worthy cause to invest in. 

 

What is it exactly you're trying to accomplish?  The population at large is pretty safe with firearms with no mandated training.  Citizens at large are 5.5 times LESS likely to kill an innocent person in a justified shooting as a police officer.  People with and without training can and do safely use firearms for self defense everyday in this country, so what problem are you wanting to spend our hard earned tax dollars for exactly?

Accidental gun deaths in this country are very low, somewhere around 430 a year for the entire country.  Most of those deaths are males, ~25% of those deaths are males 20-29 that consumed alcohol, ~47% for that age bracket.  

So we're going to create a course to teach people gun safety, once we account for stupid people who are handling firearms while drunk - I doubt there is much we can do for them - we're trying to start up a training program on the tax payers dime to stop an issue that has less than a 1 in a million chance of happening in a give year.

Eddie the Eagle for schools make sense, lots of kids may find themselves around a gun someday, I'm all for spending tax payer money on something like that.  But, some form on mandated training for adults?  No, that is a complete waste of time and tax money.

Don't get me wrong, I strongly encourage range time and lots of training, but you just can't force somebody to go and do it, and nothing in the statistics provides a compelling reason to try.

Edited March 30, 2021 by JayC

[lansa_coder]

A right doesn’t require training to have...

[Chucktshoes]

33 minutes ago, JayC said:

What is it exactly you're trying to accomplish?  The population at large is pretty safe with firearms with no mandated training.  Citizens at large are 5.5 times LESS likely to kill an innocent person in a justified shooting as a police officer.  People with and without training can and do safely use firearms for self defense everyday in this country, so what problem are you wanting to spend our hard earned tax dollars for exactly?

Accidental gun deaths in this country are very low, somewhere around 430 a year for the entire country.  Most of those deaths are males, ~25% of those deaths are males 20-29 that consumed alcohol, ~47% for that age bracket.  

So we're going to create a course to teach people gun safety, once we account for stupid people who are handling firearms while drunk - I doubt there is much we can do for them - we're trying to start up a training program on the tax payers dime to stop an issue that has less than a 1 in a million chance of happening in a give year.

Eddie the Eagle for schools make sense, lots of kids may find themselves around a gun someday, I'm all for spending tax payer money on something like that.  But, some form on mandated training for adults?  No, that is a complete waste of time and tax money.

Don't get me wrong, I strongly encourage range time and lots of training, but you just can't force somebody to go and do it, and nothing in the statistics provides a compelling reason to try.

Nobody was proposing mandated training. That discussion sprouted from comments made by Rep. Parkinson regarding the state incentivizing ways of making free training available to folks who sought education on firearms. 
 

 

[Garufa]

@Worriedman Thank you for your tireless work on this specific effort and those in past years.  Tennessee is becoming more reasonable every year in regards to 2A rights because of  what you do.  I know it can be a thankless and controversial job, but it is not a job, you truly believe and fight, when you could easily be doing something else.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Garufa

[gregintenn]

Our junior high school offers a hunter safety education course. It is not mandatory, but is well attended. Anyone who’s taken it cam tell you it is mainly geared toward firearm safety. I wish other school districts would follow suit.

[Garufa]

31 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Our junior high school offers a hunter safety education course. It is not mandatory, but is well attended. Anyone who’s taken it cam tell you it is mainly geared toward firearm safety. I wish other school districts would follow suit.

I recently uncovered my TN Hunter Ed. handbook from 8th grade.  That would be about ‘81 and I took the class at school.  Before we get too excited that it was a private school in Midtown Memphis of all places, and was one of our optional “enrichment” courses at the end of the day on Thursdays or some such thing.  All the girls took something else.

[ohell]

4 hours ago, Worriedman said:

I think we should have gun safety training in grade school. too may children are never around any instruction with regard to firearms, as opposed to most of us old hands that, TFA supported that bill in the House it got killed quickly.  Take some of that money they are collection and not spending to fix our roads and have those at least as elective classes as well in secondary schools.

 

No worries here. They’ve been getting “gun safety” education in schools for a while. 

Maybe firearm education is a better choice.  

[Handsome Rob]

Ok, so...ummmm dumbass question here: I've been kinda on and off following this, not expecting it to pass. 

Does the passing of this bill mean that everyone who can legally own firearms carry, or only those who can legally hold a carry permit, carry? 

I ask, because as a non immigrant alien (i'm sorry if y'all are all sick of this by now) I cannot get a carry permit, but I  CAN legally purchase & own firearms (NFA excluded) 

I want, rather, need to know if this bill means I can legally carry, or if i'm still prohibited. 

[NwoSlave]

4 hours ago, JayC said:

What is it exactly you're trying to accomplish?  The population at large is pretty safe with firearms with no mandated training.  Citizens at large are 5.5 times LESS likely to kill an innocent person in a justified shooting as a police officer.  People with and without training can and do safely use firearms for self defense everyday in this country, so what problem are you wanting to spend our hard earned tax dollars for exactly?

Accidental gun deaths in this country are very low, somewhere around 430 a year for the entire country.  Most of those deaths are males, ~25% of those deaths are males 20-29 that consumed alcohol, ~47% for that age bracket.  

So we're going to create a course to teach people gun safety, once we account for stupid people who are handling firearms while drunk - I doubt there is much we can do for them - we're trying to start up a training program on the tax payers dime to stop an issue that has less than a 1 in a million chance of happening in a give year.

Eddie the Eagle for schools make sense, lots of kids may find themselves around a gun someday, I'm all for spending tax payer money on something like that.  But, some form on mandated training for adults?  No, that is a complete waste of time and tax money.

Don't get me wrong, I strongly encourage range time and lots of training, but you just can't force somebody to go and do it, and nothing in the statistics provides a compelling reason to try.

im sorry, can you point out where i said it should be mandatory? im having a hard time interpreting that from my own words. 

[Worriedman]

8 hours ago, Defender said:

I guess im kinda slow, but what exactly does this law get  for the average citizen vs, for an enhanced HCP holder?

And do not forget, to have reciprocity with many States you still have to have a permit, TFA never suggested to do away with permits, that has always been the straw man of the moderates/liberals, loss of revenue.

Also I would like to see an Attorney General ruling to see if the new permitless carry allows carry by a non permit holder where the permitted is allowed, I fear many will think that is the case and get in trouble for that lack of specific knowledge, let's just get that ruling so we all know.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Worriedman

[Erik88]

@Handsome Rob I really hope you're allowed but I'm not sure. #1 below concerns me. 

"Under present law, it is an offense for a person who carries, with the intent to go armed, a firearm or a club. This bill adds an exception to the application of this offense that a person is carrying, whether openly or concealed, a handgun and:

(1) The person meets the qualifications for the issuance of an enhanced handgun carry permit"

Later on it says the bill was amended 

"ON MARCH 18, 2021, THE SENATE ADOPTED AMENDMENT #1, AND PASSED SENATE BILL 765, AS AMENDED.

AMENDMENT #1 revises this bill's exception to the offense of carrying, with the intent to go armed, a firearm or a club. Under this bill, it will be an exception to such offense that a person is carrying, whether openly or concealed, a handgun ,and:

(1) The person is at least 21 years of age, or is at least 18 years of age and has been honorably discharged from military service or is on active duty and has completed basic training"

So it almost seems like they ditched the requirement that someone has to qualify for the enhanced permit. Hopefully someone else will chime in and clear things up.

 

https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=HB0786&GA=112