Status of "Constitutional Carry" in TN.

[papa61]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

How about we remove criminals and the mentally unstable from society rather than firearms?

nailhead, meet hammerhead

not to say remove mentally unstable but to get them medical help and allow them to be flagged on NICS

[gregintenn]

19 minutes ago, papa61 said:

nailhead, meet hammerhead

not to say remove mentally unstable but to get them medical help and allow them to be flagged on NICS

Remove and treat them until such time they can be productive and reliable members of society.

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, Chucktshoes said:

Passed, no amendments, off to the Governor. 

Excellent!

I certainly agree that true constitutional carry is what we should have gotten, but I hate to forego good in search of perfect.

[Jeb48]

Watched 30 minutes or so of house going over the amendments on TV tonight. The pro representatives had good arguments. Several Democrats from Nashville and Memphis spoke against with pretty bogus reasons like loss of training for people carrying (the democrat compared the permit training being similar to military gun training)  and the police associations be against it so a vote for was a vote against the men in blue. The funniest negative was a Democrat from Memphis that asked about not only the loss of income from fewer permits but the extra money in the budget. The fellow presenting the Bill explained that the increase was for the longer sentences for breakers of the stricter laws for stealing guns and longer sentences for other gun crimes. The Memphis rep said that didn't seem fair to increase penalties for people caught up with attractive nuisances such as guns being stolen from cars. Guess he didn't his voters put in jail.

[papa61]

27 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Remove and treat them until such time they can be productive and reliable members of society.

those that are a danger to themselves and other yes. many can be treated as outpatient and contribute and live reasonably well. I would just hate to see us go back to locking those with mental disability away, filing and forgetting like we did not many decades ago.

[papa61]

1 hour ago, Chucktshoes said:

Passed, no amendments, off to the Governor. 

took long enough. should have been done last year instead of twiddling thumbs wondering what to do about covee

[Worriedman]

Two amendments were offered by Republican's that changed the vague legally present language to the permissions in Enhanced permit carry, they were stuck down as being filed incorrectly, but they were in fact prepared by legal.

I am the one doing the ads and please tell me where I have misstated any fact, that REAL Constitutional Carry includes long guns and the 18 year old an up provision?  Did we think those had a chance, no, but our constituents want the REAL thing, while others are OK with something less.

By the way, I have not once said I was against the Governor's bill , just that it needed to be amended.  I take no pay for the efforts I make or have for the last 20 years.  It sure is not making me an friends and has nearly cost me my livelihood, so any who think I am involved for any personal gain are incorrect.  I am old and am going to die soon, and I want my grand children as well situated before I do as possible.

Everyone who is involved knew the Governor's Bill was going to pass, they did not vote for the Republican Amendment by Jerry Sexton because leadership did not ant that minute change to wherever an enhanced permit carry allows and there are plenty of places in this passed bill that you can not carry that you can with the enhanced permit, like when you are bow hunting or in a number of parks, but those traps make work for lawyers....

If you ordered a pizza and wanted anchovies and pepperoni and you got chicken and pineapple would you be happy?  A lot more work went into this attempt to get the right thing than any of you might know, or actually can imagine, and it will be years now before they take any of these issues back up.  I have 20+ years in working these issues and for me, personally, I will keep my permit because I want to travel out of State and can afford it.

Of far more import, Civil Immunity  (HB 0025) passed with more votes then the Governor's bill and that one affects everyone regardless of their desire to have a permit or not.  I have been working that bill for 15 years and got it through the House again tonight.  So, while there were expecting me to raise sand about the "Constitutional Carry Bill", the real work for us guys who realize we are the only defense we have against crime prevailed.

It did last year too, but the Senate refused to even take it up.   They can't afford not to hear it now, it is by -partisan, I even got 6 Democrats to vote for it.  The bluster and dust got raised about something they pushed back on what everybody admits is not the correct thing we should have, all the while the most important thing slipped under the door unnoticed.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Worriedman

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, gregintenn said:

Remove and treat them until such time they can be productive and reliable members of society.

Go back to asylums?

[xtriggerman]

Worriedman, You are a true Patriot and I tip my hat to you.  The Civil Immunity bill is Huge, Huge, Huge. TN should have had this long ago.  

[Erik88]

8 hours ago, gregintenn said:

Excellent!

I certainly agree that true constitutional carry is what we should have gotten, but I hate to forego good in search of perfect.

I have a freedom-boner for the first time in a while. Proud of our state. 

@Worriedman thanks for all the hard work you put into this. 

 

[Worriedman]

Suppose you had a Grandfather that worked his whole life, veteran of WWII even who saw you as his favorite grandchild and left you his prized Colt Python .357, pristine and kept in the best repair and condition, (box and all) in his will.  When the fateful day arrived and he went to his reward, no longer troubled with the scars of war and strife of life...

The Probate of his Estate, meager as it was, consisting of his house and few possessions scattered about the multitude of his survivors, comes to fruition some months after his passing and you receive an RG .38. with cracked plastic handle, broken pawl.  You contest the intent of the will only to be told by the Executor and Probate judge that you should be happy with the fact you go something akin to what your progenitor intended, and if you are savvy and toss in a lot of hard earned cash and trade up over the coming years at some point in the future you can possibly achieve the equal, if not exact item that was yours to begin with...

I keep going back year after year, for decades now, to attempt to gain back that which our sires won for us from an overreaching tyrannical government, wrested with bloody hands and in fact due in great part to Tennesseans who would not take crumbs of their God given Rights to Liberty but at Kings Mountain shot and killed their rulers, bleeding and dying in the attempt to leave us with our Right to arms and true representation re taxes and being able to keep our property and some semblance of privacy.

We are culls who have allowed scurrilous men to steal those hard won issues, kneeling and 
"taking what we can get" from their table.  Legislators, off duty LE and judges carry with impunity everyday, wherever they wish  Are they made of finer clay than we who simply work and die and shoulder the biggest part of the duty and payment for the society we now live in?  Where Rights are chipped away successively, bit by bit and drip by drip, the water in the pot coming up to heat while we clamor about the good work of a legislature that knows we are due the full gift of recognition of the 2nd Amendment at least?

 

[Worriedman]

19 hours ago, gregintenn said:

This is my fear. Imagine the antis voting for enough amendments to actually kill the bill's passage upon final vote. Were I a democrat Tennessee Congressman, that's probably how I'd go about defeating this bill.

I'd prefer we take the Governor's bill and live to fight another day.

There are not enough Democrats to do anything, they could hold their Caucus meeting in a dang minivan.  Everything that happens for good or ill is the direct responsibility of the Republicans.  You will notice that all "our" guys voted for the Governor's bill. 

I set about strategy to try to remove the most egregious portions of it last night before I left the Capitol, and you know there are parts that are not good.  As long as I can drag my tired old fat hinney up those stairs and through the tunnel I will keep trying to get back to the 1796 Rights where it said Tennesseans have the Right to keep and bear arms without any qualifiers.  Communities hung criminals as did the State and that cut way back on recidivism.  In truth, looking at the dollars intended, this is merely an increased criminal penalties bill for those who actually look at the text, nearly $20million worth of increase.  Gov. Lee is doing his best to turn criminals out at an astounding rate, giving them tax dollar paid for college and trade school classes to make them better citizens...revolving door funding with tax dollars of something, not sure what.  Had they simply called it Permitless carry for some ion some places I could have accepted that.

But to your point, I intend to fight another day, starting as soon as the gavel rang on this one.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Worriedman

[Capbyrd]

9 hours ago, Worriedman said:

Two amendments were offered by Republican's that changed the vague legally present language to the permissions in Enhanced permit carry, they were stuck down as being filed incorrectly, but they were in fact prepared by legal.
 

 

Tell the whole story.   And one of those amendments was refiled as Amendment 12 and although it wasn't filed timely, it was voted on and shot down.   

[Worriedman]

24 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

 

Tell the whole story.   And one of those amendments was refiled as Amendment 12 and although it wasn't filed timely, it was voted on and shot down.   

Not correct, it was simply brought up on the rule that says 2/3 present can call the merit to the floor,  the original amendment, two of them on the same issue one by Jerry Sexton who is really ticked that our tax payer funded Vanderbilt lawyers "messed" up filing the amendment correctly.  I have some beach front property in Weakly County for sale too...Leadership did not want to even have a discussion because on that as the "powers that be" did not want to entertain the issue, the two amendments were timely filled, signed by the sponsors and left in the Clerks office, there was no mention of any impropriety at noon when they were filed, the impropriety discovered after the deadline to correct them... and pray tell what was the harm in adding the ability to carry where the Enhanced Permit carrier could carry to the bill, enlighten us please.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Worriedman

[Capbyrd]

2 minutes ago, Worriedman said:

Not correct, it was simply brought up on the rule that says 2/3 present can call the merit to the floor,  the original amendment, two of them on the same issue one by Jerry Sexton who is really ticked that our tax payer funded Vanderbilt lawyers "messed" up filing the amendment correctly.  I have some beach front property in Weakly County for sale too...Leadership did not want to even have a discussion because on that as the "powers that be" did not want to entertain the issue, the two amendments were timely filled, signed by the sponsors and left in the Clerks office, there was no mention of any impropriety at noon when they were filed, the impropriety discovered after the deadline to correct them... and pray tell what was the harm in adding the ability to carry where the Enhanced Permit carrier could carry to the bill, enlighten us please.

 

 

You are putting words in my mouth.   I didn't say there was any harm.  I simply said that the amendment was offered AGAIN as Amendment 12 and received a whopping 24 votes.   

[Worriedman]

11 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

 

 

You are putting words in my mouth.   I didn't say there was any harm.  I simply said that the amendment was offered AGAIN as Amendment 12 and received a whopping 24 votes.   

I was there, and saw the vote "whipping", but look at who voted for it, Jerry Sexton, Clay Doggett, Chris Todd , those not afraid to stand on principal, not just follow orders.  

[Capbyrd]

8 minutes ago, Worriedman said:

I was there, and saw the vote "whipping", but look at who voted for it, Jerry Sexton, Clay Doggett, Chris Todd , those not afraid to stand on principal, not just follow orders.  

OHHHH You were there.   I forgot that the video stream is faked to show things that didn't happen.  
 

[Worriedman]

22 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

OHHHH You were there.   I forgot that the video stream is faked to show things that didn't happen.  
 

That is disingenuous, working the bills is not shown on the video stream, I got 72 yes votes for my bill, the Governor's bill got 64.  

I am simply telling the facts of the game that is played. How many days have you spent working 2nd Amendment issues at the General Assembly?  How many meeting did you attend in Nashville with groups of legislators to actually write bills and advocate with Leadership to seek their passage.  I have spent two decades involved in the effort.  Employee Safe Commute, Guns in Trunks, Guns in Bars and Guns in Parks, all issues that leadership fought that TFA championed and worked to pass, a lot of shoe leather and groveling spent, I saw very VERY few others doing that work.

Here is what Senator Kerry Roberts said about the issue, and yes he also said he would support the bill as written, but these comments bear witness I think.

https://youtu.be/4tRXSSBP3cw

Edited March 30, 2021 by Worriedman

[Capbyrd]

@Worriedman, I'm going to back up because I think you have misunderstood me and I'm getting close to getting myself in trouble.   

I'm not your enemy.   We are on the same side and want the same thing.   But you and your boss seem to be idealists.   You want it all or you are just unhappy.   Or maybe my previous statement is correct and John would be happy if it never passed so that he can continue to fear monger across the state in the name of fundraising.   I hope that the latter isn't true.  

I am a realist.   I understand that we cannot win this fight in one fell swoop.   The other side took small bites away at a time.   The only way that we can win it back is one small piece at a time.   So I don't look for perfect.   It's government, it will never be perfect.   I look for realistic options that will move the needle in our direction.   We have not had a truly friendly governor in this state in quite some time.   Get what we can when we can each session and before you know it, we have made big dent.   




Now, you asked me some personal questions.   How many sessions have I attended on this matter?  None. I have a job and responsibilities.    I can't get to Nashville.   But I work at the grassroots level.   I spread the word and encourage discourse with senators and representatives regarding active legislation.   I was incredibly active a few years back when we removed restrictions on knives in this state.   I'm well familiar with the process.   You aren't schooling me on anything.   I know the system and how it works.  But I know that it doesn't happen overnight.    Let's keep working on it.   

 

 

As for the future, at what point is the TFA going start working to get rid of Defense to Prosecution language?  I'd argue that is as equally important of a fight as constitutional carry.  

[Capbyrd]

For anyone interested, I put together some highlights from the video stream.   These are things that I found funny or interesting.  There were more but I didn't want to record the entire hour.  

 

 

[gregintenn]

Worriedman,

I truly appreciate you efforts. Thank you.

[gregintenn]

9 hours ago, Daniel said:

Go back to asylums?

Absolutely.

[300winmag]

From a practical sense, more would be accomplished by removing carry restrictions on the enhanced carry permit  VS  having heavily restricted constitutional carry.

The enhanced carry permit restrictions should have been removed first.

[Defender]

11 hours ago, Worriedman said:

Two amendments were offered by Republican's that changed the vague legally present language to the permissions in Enhanced permit carry, they were stuck down as being filed incorrectly, but they were in fact prepared by legal.

I am the one doing the ads and please tell me where I have misstated any fact, that REAL Constitutional Carry includes long guns and the 18 year old an up provision?  Did we think those had a chance, no, but our constituents want the REAL thing, while others are OK with something less.

By the way, I have not once said I was against the Governor's bill , just that it needed to be amended.  I take no pay for the efforts I make or have for the last 20 years.  It sure is not making me an friends and has nearly cost me my livelihood, so any who think I am involved for any personal gain are incorrect.  I am old and am going to die soon, and I want my grand children as well situated before I do as possible.

Everyone who is involved knew the Governor's Bill was going to pass, they did not vote for the Republican Amendment by Jerry Sexton because leadership did not ant that minute change to wherever an enhanced permit carry allows and there are plenty of places in this passed bill that you can not carry that you can with the enhanced permit, like when you are bow hunting or in a number of parks, but those traps make work for lawyers....

If you ordered a pizza and wanted anchovies and pepperoni and you got chicken and pineapple would you be happy?  A lot more work went into this attempt to get the right thing than any of you might know, or actually can imagine, and it will be years now before they take any of these issues back up.  I have 20+ years in working these issues and for me, personally, I will keep my permit because I want to travel out of State and can afford it.

Of far more import, Civil Immunity  (HB 0025) passed with more votes then the Governor's bill and that one affects everyone regardless of their desire to have a permit or not.  I have been working that bill for 15 years and got it through the House again tonight.  So, while there were expecting me to raise sand about the "Constitutional Carry Bill", the real work for us guys who realize we are the only defense we have against crime prevailed.

It did last year too, but the Senate refused to even take it up.   They can't afford not to hear it now, it is by -partisan, I even got 6 Democrats to vote for it.  The bluster and dust got raised about something they pushed back on what everybody admits is not the correct thing we should have, all the while the most important thing slipped under the door unnoticed.

Thanks for your hard work. 

[Worriedman]

1 hour ago, Capbyrd said:

As for the future, at what point is the TFA going start working to get rid of Defense to Prosecution language?  I'd argue that is as equally important of a fight as constitutional carry.  

It is what we asked for this year, see Todd's bill HB 1388 written by us and parsed through legal, simply removes the criminal aspect, it is up this week in subcommittee. I get the game.

 I work a 60 hr. week, have a daughter that is wheelchair bound that I have to see about constantly, a wife who had a kidney transplant 13 years ago and is very ill, and another daughter that just had her transplant...spontaneous mutation that got  passed along to our kids that we did not know about when young and fertile.  I use my vacation to travel to Nashville and now can do Zoom meetings with our friends in the legislature, the only upside to COVID I have found.  I will rest when I am dead.

Per the fundraising, we only spend money on helping good candidates in their campaigns and advertising for our issues.  John donated copious hours at no payback of any sort to the effort.  There are two Board members, he and I, and neither of us take a penny from the TFA, ever!  I nor John are Wayne La Pierre.

I agree we are not enemies, we just have different views on how to proceed.  I have enough brown on my nose from my efforts over the last 20+ years to start a small truck patch...

Edited March 30, 2021 by Worriedman