Underwater submerged storage

[CrosbyStills]

So I'm entertaining the possibility (SHTF situations) of being able to store some guns and ammo under about 10-15 feet of pond water.  I'd retrieve it with a line and grappling hook or line and magnet.  I could secure it from too much wandering due to current/wind by chaining it to a piling or wrapping a chain and cinder block around it.  

Question: Cheap, easy, WATERPROOF storage for contents? Bags of desiccant added to reduce rust. Thinking must be able to store guns/ammo for months under 15 feet of water.

Thoughts or ideas?

PS-- Asking for a friend.

[Garufa]

I think your friend will never find it again after sinking it.

[smallfish]

i'd use  pvc pipe/pipes and fill it with motor oil.

[peejman]

23 minutes ago, smallfish said:

i'd use  pvc pipe/pipes and fill it with motor oil.

That won't sink.

[smallfish]

> That won't sink.
really?   A pvc pipe with metal stuff inside and filled with oil wouldn't sink? 

ok, a quick and dirty calculation: oil is about 0,8–0,9 kg/l ( let's say 0,8 ). water is 1 kg/l.  so if you add at least 0.2 kg on 1L of internal volume ( neglect weight of pvc pipe)  the whole construction will perfectly sink... 

a reference guide : 1 kg is ~2 pounds, 1L is ~1/4 of gallon. 

[Grayfox54]

Storing underwater seems a bit risky to me. The weight could make it sink into the soft muddy bottom to where you may never find it again or may not be able to pull it free.  I'm thinking if you do this, you'll have to swim to get it out. And even that might be difficult. But, if you must, PVC pipe and seal both ends with solid caps, You'll need a saw to open them back up, but it should be completely water tight. 

[Ronald_55]

Maybe a sunken boat hull. There seem to be a lot out there storing guns right now...

,)

[ReeferMac]

Thick wall PVC. I like the idea of motor oil, but any wood or plastic may be ill effected? Aren't there commercial products and bags available (gunsock?), that could be used to place inside the tube? I'm a big fan of layered protection. Multiple water proof bag layers inside a sealed PVC tube. If one layer fails, there are multiple others.

Retrieval may prove difficult... how long of a tube? Multiple units lashed together? Some way to attach it to something (run the chain up on shore?), even just a float (duck decoy?) to mark its location? How long do you anticipate storage? Could plan to retrieve it (semi)annually to ensure sedimentation doesn't become a problem.

Might be better served by burying it in dirt, perhaps under a new bush/flower bed? Get some cheap bulbs (only grow down about 9 inches) and some mulch, looks like landscaping. 

K

[No_0ne]

I'm visualizing some news report, about 100 years from now.  "Farmer drains old pond, finds cache of rusty guns" ...

Edited March 22, 2021 by No_0ne

[Ronald_55]

If you desire water storage, I had an idea. Build a duck house that floats in the middle of the pond and is anchored. Have pvc pipe as part of the "raft". Few people are gonna wade or swim out to that and even fewer are gonna dissassemble it looking for guns. 

Think this maybe. Could even possibly just mount pvc underneath it. Makes things easy to locate for retrieval. 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Ronald_55

[MacGyver]

We always search the pond. 

[RED333]

6 hours ago, MacGyver said:

We always search the pond. 

I will now when SHTF .

[billmeek]

On 3/20/2021 at 5:55 PM, CrosbyStills said:

Question: Cheap, easy, WATERPROOF storage for contents?

Doubling up on your waterproofing might be a good idea.

If you are going to use something to enclose the contents (i.e. PVC) , you can use a vacuum packer and roll of vacuum plastic (allowing long lengths) to create an airtight seal.  Just be sure to put 2 or 3 seals per end and check that no sharp point has (or can) ruptured the plastic.  

[Jamie Jackson]

This reminded me of an article I read several years ago in Backwoods Home magazine. Great magazine imho.

The article was written by Charles Wood. He buried a Ruger Ranch Rifle and several thousand rounds of .223 ammo (and related gear) and retrieved them after 15 years.

Mr.Wood goes into pretty fair detail of the process and the article has some interesting observations as well.

 

https://www.backwoodshome.com/bury-a-gun-and-ammo-for-15-years/

[CrosbyStills]

I am really enjoying and appreciating the responses in this thread. My fear is that No_0ne is exactly right.  That being said, how is a pond searched?  I've got a buddy on a 10,000+ acre lake with hundreds of piling type docks. Thinking I'd just wrap a chain around a piling, coil another chain around the PVC set up (I like multiple vacuum bags instead of oil) and some ballast and drop it down 20 feet.  Retrieval via line and grappling hook.

[peejman]

On 3/20/2021 at 7:56 PM, smallfish said:

> That won't sink.
really?   A pvc pipe with metal stuff inside and filled with oil wouldn't sink? 

ok, a quick and dirty calculation: oil is about 0,8–0,9 kg/l ( let's say 0,8 ). water is 1 kg/l.  so if you add at least 0.2 kg on 1L of internal volume ( neglect weight of pvc pipe)  the whole construction will perfectly sink... 

a reference guide : 1 kg is ~2 pounds, 1L is ~1/4 of gallon. 

An 8" x 5ft pipe is about 1.75 cuft in volume. Water weighs 62.4lbs/cuft, so the pipe and its contents must weigh more than 109 lbs for it to sink. 

1000 rds of 5.56 in an ammo can weighs about 30 lbs, so you'd need about 3600 rounds plus a couple rifles to sink the pipe.

You also suggested to fill it with oil, which is lighter than water. So you'd need more weight to overcome the buoyancy of the oil. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by peejman

[OldIronFan]

Rifle with desiccant packs sealed in VCI bags. placed into PCV pipe with glued caps. I would likely add an extra layer of some type of marine grade sealant around the cap joint as a extra precaution.

I would either put multiples of the above configuration in a plastic or stainless steel sealed barrel weighted to sink. If I was doing a single rifle with some ammo I would likely place the above PVC "Vault" in a larger PVC tube and cap that, again second layer of protection. 

Drive an anchor rod into the pond bottom with a eye or ring that I could chain the above to. 

[smallfish]

24 minutes ago, peejman said:

An 8" x 5ft pipe is about 1.75 cuft in volume. Water weighs 62.4lbs/cuft, so the pipe and its contents must weigh more than 109 lbs for it to sink. 
1000 rds of 5.56 in an ammo can weighs about 30 lbs, so you'd need about 3600 rounds plus a couple rifles to sink the pipe.

You also suggested to fill it with oil, which is lighter than water. So you'd need more weight to overcome the buoyancy of the oil. 

your calculation is correct, except the last statement -  to sink the pipe "with air" you need 109 lbs. As oil is heavier than air, and about 0.8 of wight of water you need less metal if you fill pipe with oil.  So, oil wight is 109 * 0.8 = 87.2 lbs and you need only 109 - 87 = 22  lbs of ammo which just about 1k of rounds.

[peejman]

4 hours ago, smallfish said:

your calculation is correct, except the last statement -  to sink the pipe "with air" you need 109 lbs. As oil is heavier than air, and about 0.8 of wight of water you need less metal if you fill pipe with oil.  So, oil wight is 109 * 0.8 = 87.2 lbs and you need only 109 - 87 = 22  lbs of ammo which just about 1k of rounds.

Fair enough. 11 gallons of oil has the potential to make quite a mess if it leaks.  

[221 Fireball]

Two questions come to mind.

1. So why are you hiding the gun?

2.And what are you doing with it when you retrieve it at a later date?

How about encase it in concrete for your new grill foundation, then jackhammer it out when you one day need it. You'd probably have less damage than sending it to the bottom of the sea. 

[No_0ne]

5 minutes ago, 221 Fireball said:

Two questions come to mind.

1. So why are you hiding the gun?

2.And what are you doing with it when you retrieve it at a later date?

How about encase it in concrete for your new grill foundation, then jackhammer it out when you one day need it. You'd probably have less damage than sending it to the bottom of the sea. 

He wants to be able to say "no, really" when people take him to task about his claim that all his guns sank in a boating accident ...

[MacGyver]

3 hours ago, peejman said:

Fair enough. 11 gallons of oil has the potential to make quite a mess if it leaks.  

Not to mention pointing out your hiding spot.  A tablespoon of oil is enough to cover most farm ponds.  I can only imagine what 11 gallons would do.

You’d need more than guns once the EPA got wind of that spill. 

[Quavodus]

If I was wanting to hide a gun or guns, and you wanted to preserve in oil, seal them in a PVC pipe with oil and just bury.

[xsubsailor]

https://www.amazon.com/Fairly-Odd-Treasures/dp/B08WZS2CFK

[No_0ne]

5 hours ago, Quavodus said:

If I was wanting to hide a gun or guns, and you wanted to preserve in oil, seal them in a PVC pipe with oil and just bury.

Rather than oil, follow the example of most military storage facilities around the world and pack them in grease.  It's a myth that long term storage of rifles like Mosin Nagants and others were stored in cosmolene.  Cosmolene was (is) used almost exclusively by the US, other countries mainly used grease - i.e. plain old axle grease.  It works very well as a rust preventative, and is much less likely to leak.  Regardless of how you pack them, water intrusion will always cause damage, I would think carefully about storing anything underwater that I wished to be functional over many years.  Pack your guns in grease, store them away in a secure location.  After all, that method worked reasonably well for the millions of surplus WWII weapons the CommBloc comrades packed away 70 odd years ago against invasion by the evil, imperialist Western nations ...

Edited March 23, 2021 by No_0ne