Did something I said I wouldn't do for a While

[TGO David]

1 hour ago, DJTC45 said:

Well I'll let you know what happens.

I wish nothing but the best for you.  My concern is that no one can truly predict what the side effects may be 2, 10, 20 years from now so "I'll let you know what happens" could mean waiting a long time to find out that it causes second or third generation birth defects or some other terrible issue.

If COVID-19 were as contagious and fatal as, say, the Ebola Virus, I think taking the calculated risk of rushing everyone to get vaccinated would make sense.  As is, statistics still show that this virus is perhaps slightly more contagious than the strains of influenza we've been dealing with for generations of people and less fatal overall than influenza.   The statistics also show that co-morbidities play a significant role in determining who has a harder time with it or dies from it, but you don't hear the government screaming those things from the rooftops.  It's all about the shot, and the shot only addresses COVID-19.  Purportedly.   It doesn't address obesity, diabetes, sedentary lifestyles, smoking addictions, etc.

Here's the thing:  None of us are making it out of here alive, but those other things are known killers too.  And I am once again dragging my lazy, office-dwelling, all-too-sedentary ass up at 0500 HRS every day to put in time on the rowing machine because I might like tacos and Cheetos, but the Reaper is still going to have to at least power-walk to catch me.

 

*I'm not a doctor but common sense is common sense*

 

[DJTC45]

With my cancer diagnosis two years will be a mile stone for me buddy. Besides I'm 54yrs old, just had 5 bypasses to correct my heart problems, then get a stage 4 cancer diagnosis, I got nothing to loose. I get my ass up every day at 4:30am, no I don't go to work cause I had to take an early retirement do to my condition, I excercise also, I'm 184# down from 225. I treat every day as a blessing. Shot or no shot I'm choosing to take it, and I'm not going to debate any further on this. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by DJTC45
Spelling, and to add to it

[Erik88]

25 minutes ago, TGO David said:

Are any of its supporters on TGO medical doctors?

 

Well yes actually. I know we have a few doctors here and at least one nurse. But my point was that he claimed we should all shut up unless we are a doctor, then he proceeded to tell us how the vaccine isn't really a vaccine.  So I'm curious to know if he is a doctor or just another guy on the internet. 

[Swamp ash]

16 minutes ago, TGO David said:

I wish nothing but the best for you.  My concern is that no one can truly predict what the side effects may be 2, 10, 20 years from now so "I'll let you know what happens" could mean waiting a long time to find out that it causes second or third generation birth defects or some other terrible issue.

If COVID-19 were as contagious and fatal as, say, the Ebola Virus, I think taking the calculated risk of rushing everyone to get vaccinated would make sense.  As is, statistics still show that this virus is perhaps slightly more contagious than the strains of influenza we've been dealing with for generations of people and less fatal overall than influenza.   The statistics also show that co-morbidities play a significant role in determining who has a harder time with it or dies from it, but you don't hear the government screaming those things from the rooftops.  It's all about the shot, and the shot only addresses COVID-19.  Purportedly.   It doesn't address obesity, diabetes, sedentary lifestyles, smoking addictions, etc.

Here's the thing:  None of us are making it out of here alive, but those other things are known killers too.  And I am once again dragging my lazy, office-dwelling, all-too-sedentary ass up at 0500 HRS every day to put in time on the rowing machine because I might like tacos and Cheetos, but the Reaper is still going to have to at least power-walk to catch me.

 

*I'm not a doctor but common sense is common sense*

 

Educate yourself then:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fvaccines%2Fabout-vaccines%2Fhow-they-work.html

Vaccines work merely by providing pieces of the virus for your body to be exposed to, thus allowing antibodies to develop. That's it. 

There are a few different ways to achieve this, but, all that occurs is that your body is stimulated to use it's natural defenses.

Birth defects would require require your reproductive cells to be altered or that the injection affected pregnant women. Nowhere does this affect one's genetic composition at all. 

Again, the fatality rate may not be as high as other things, but over 500,000 have died in the US - much more than the flu or cold.  Further, many more times that get sick. And huge issue is the enormous strain this puts on our medical community which doesn't have the resources in place to handle the large number of cases PLUS the other health issues that affect people.

 

[TGO David]

41 minutes ago, DJTC45 said:

With my cancer diagnosis two years will be a mile stone for me buddy. Besides I'm 54yrs old, just had 5 bypasses to correct my heart problems, then get a stage 4 cancer diagnosis, I got nothing to loose. I get my ass up every day at 4:30am, no I don't go to work cause I had to take an early retirement do to my condition, I excercise also, I'm 184# down from 225. I treat every day as a blessing. Shot or no shot I'm choosing to take it, and I'm not going to debate any further on this. 

There are certainly people, like yourself, for whom the vaccine makes a lot more sense.  And I'll add... that if a person is out of the "child siring" or "child bearing" games, then there is probably even less risk.

Here's an aspect of this to think about, though:  You may feel that you have nothing to lose but there are people who will feel a loss if you succumb to any of those conditions.  At the very least, we here on TGO would miss your contributions to the ongoing dialogue and the experiences that you can share with us.

I don't want anyone rushing off into oblivion.  Please don't misread my words or intent. 

 

[TGO David]

24 minutes ago, Swamp ash said:

Educate yourself then:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fvaccines%2Fabout-vaccines%2Fhow-they-work.html

I work in healthcare. 

 

Quote

Vaccines work merely by providing pieces of the virus for your body to be exposed to, thus allowing antibodies to develop. That's it. 

There are a few different ways to achieve this, but, all that occurs is that your body is stimulated to use it's natural defenses.

Birth defects would require require your reproductive cells to be altered or that the injection affected pregnant women. Nowhere does this affect one's genetic composition at all. 

Again, the fatality rate may not be as high as other things, but over 500,000 have died in the US - much more than the flu or cold.  Further, many more times that get sick. And huge issue is the enormous strain this puts on our medical community which doesn't have the resources in place to handle the large number of cases PLUS the other health issues that affect people.

 

I think maybe you should do further reading on the mRNA vaccines and how they work.  They aren't exposing your body to pieces of the virus and causing it to trigger a natural immunity.   They are modifying the way your body's own immune system operates and programming it to create something it ordinarily wouldn't.

The downstream effects of this are unknown.  You have zero evidence to the contrary because no one does. 

 

[E4 No More]

The amount of bad information being spread in this thread is astounding.

Anyway, day two post 2nd Moderna shot and my shoulder is a little sore, but not as bad as after the first shot; however, with the first shot they landed on a nerve. I don't feel sick, just cranky because I've been listening to a dog yip since 1:29 AM.

[Erik88]

It's ironic that many of the people concerned about what might be in the vaccine, will sustain themselves on junk food, fried food, soda, cigarettes and alcohol. Suddenly we have people concerned about their health in a country that really isn't healthy. I had a conversation with my neighbor Sunday who told me she was concerned about the vaccine right after she put out a cigarette. I guess I have a different view of what common sense is. 

 

 

[TGO David]

3 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

It's ironic that many of the people concerned about what might be in the vaccine, will sustain themselves on junk food, fried food, soda, cigarettes and alcohol. Suddenly we have people concerned about their health in a country that really isn't healthy. I had a conversation with my neighbor Sunday who told me she was concerned about the vaccine right after she put out a cigarette. I guess I have a different view of what common sense is.

I don't disagree with the inherent irony of that situation, but you're basically complaining about a person's freedom to choose.

 

[Swamp ash]

4 minutes ago, TGO David said:

I work in healthcare. 

 

I think maybe you should do further reading on the mRNA vaccines and how they work.  They aren't exposing your body to pieces of the virus and causing it to trigger a natural immunity.   They are modifying the way your body's own immune system operates and programming it to create something it ordinarily wouldn't.

The downstream effects of this are unknown.  You have zero evidence to the contrary because no one does. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mRNA.html

These simply cause the body to make similar proteins as the virus in order to foster a natural response. Body cells have a finite lifespan, anyway, and are regularly replaced. So, even if they were somehow damaged, these cells won't persist, anyway. But, the antibodies (it is hoped) will.

And, if there were some consequences from mRNA treatment it would be only limited to the people getting the vaccine. Unless your sex cells are altered, (or if something occurs during fetal development) there is no risk of future birth defects. One can not pass down mutations or alterations to body cells. So as long as you aren't getting shot in the testes (lol) or giving it to pregnant women, there ought not be any concern!

Thanks for your efforts in healthcare and combatting the virus

 

[DJTC45]

10 minutes ago, TGO David said:

There are certainly people, like yourself, for whom the vaccine makes a lot more sense.  And I'll add... that if a person is out of the "child siring" or "child bearing" games, then there is probably even less risk.

Here's an aspect of this to think about, though:  You may feel that you have nothing to lose but there are people who will feel a loss if you succumb to any of those conditions.  At the very least, we here on TGO would miss your contributions to the ongoing dialogue and the experiences that you can share with us.

I don't want anyone rushing off into oblivion.  Please don't misread my words or intent. 

 

David I apologize if I came off as taking offense to your comments, that wasn't my intention. This forum has been great to be a part of and I enjoy it. The fact is it's my choice to get the shot, and I respect the feelings of others you don't believe it's a good idea. I've accepted the fact that I'm not going to live forever, hell I'm lucky I made it pass 25yrs old with all the wild and crazy things I did, but I've made my peace with God and will accept and stand before him and answer for all my miss doings. I appreciate everyone's opinion on the subject. We all have are beliefs and opinions and that is why I chose to do it. Now I'm done rambling, God bless every member here, and your families.

[Erik88]

9 minutes ago, TGO David said:

I don't disagree with the inherent irony of that situation, but you're basically complaining about a person's freedom to choose.

 

I could see how it could be viewed that way. If you don't want to get the vaccine, don't get it. I don't think you should be forced.

Here is another example of irony I've been chewing on.  The same people who in the past said that a business should have the right to make their own decisions(think the bakery/gay couple case), will completely disregard a stores sign on the front door requiring them to wear a mask. I see people ignore those signs constantly.

There was an Asian restaurant in Texas that decided to continue their mask mandate and people were FURIOUS. They acted as though they had a right to eat there.  People spray painted "Kung Flu" and "Hope you Die" on their windows. 

Who supports freedom to choose in that scenario? 

 

[A516]

Well there is always injecting disinfectant as suggested by the biggest idiot of them all.  I think I will stick with the Covid-19 vaccine. 

[Swamp ash]

9 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I could see how it could be viewed that way. If you don't want to get the vaccine, don't get it. I don't think you should be forced.

Here is another example of irony I've been chewing on.  The same people who in the past said that a business should have the right to make their own decisions(think the bakery/gay couple case), will completely disregard a stores sign on the front door requiring them to wear a mask. I see people ignore those signs constantly.

There was an Asian restaurant in Texas that decided to continue their mask mandate and people were FURIOUS. They acted as though they had a right to eat there.  People spray painted "Kung Flu" and "Hope you Die" on their windows. 

Who supports freedom to choose in that scenario? 

 

Yes, there is a contingent of folks who won't wear a mask, won't vaccinate and won't respect the rights of others (most of us) who do. That's not freedom of choice - it is antisocial behavior.

If you choose not to participate with the rest of society during a health care crisis then the consequences are that you may be excluded from certain things - like large gatherings or crowded places. At least until everyone else has done the hard work for you and reduced transmission rates.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Swamp ash

[deerslayer]

52 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

It's ironic that many of the people concerned about what might be in the vaccine, will sustain themselves on junk food, fried food, soda, cigarettes and alcohol. Suddenly we have people concerned about their health in a country that really isn't healthy. I had a conversation with my neighbor Sunday who told me she was concerned about the vaccine right after she put out a cigarette. I guess I have a different view of what common sense is. 

 

 

I completely agree, but when will these people (pro vaccine or anti) be held to the same scrutiny that someone who doesn’t like masks is held?  Are they not also contributing to the crisis with their lousy health/lifestyle choices by feeding their co-morbidities and being more susceptible to the virus?  

Edited March 16, 2021 by deerslayer

[deerslayer]

31 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I could see how it could be viewed that way. If you don't want to get the vaccine, don't get it. I don't think you should be forced.

Here is another example of irony I've been chewing on.  The same people who in the past said that a business should have the right to make their own decisions(think the bakery/gay couple case), will completely disregard a stores sign on the front door requiring them to wear a mask. I see people ignore those signs constantly.

There was an Asian restaurant in Texas that decided to continue their mask mandate and people were FURIOUS. They acted as though they had a right to eat there.  People spray painted "Kung Flu" and "Hope you Die" on their windows. 

Who supports freedom to choose in that scenario? 

 

Others on this thread are advocating forcing the vaccine on people or not allowing them to participate in life outside their front door.  

As for the Asian restaurant, I would support their right to require masks if they choose as long as there are no repercussions for people voting with their wallet and choosing not to spend money there.  The spray painters should be punished.  Probably most who supported the wedding cake baker would feel the same way.  

[deerslayer]

1 hour ago, DJTC45 said:

With my cancer diagnosis two years will be a mile stone for me buddy. Besides I'm 54yrs old, just had 5 bypasses to correct my heart problems, then get a stage 4 cancer diagnosis, I got nothing to loose. I get my ass up every day at 4:30am, no I don't go to work cause I had to take an early retirement do to my condition, I excercise also, I'm 184# down from 225. I treat every day as a blessing. Shot or no shot I'm choosing to take it, and I'm not going to debate any further on this. 

In your situation, I would probably be getting in line for the vaccine.  

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, Swamp ash said:

Yes, there is a contingent of folks who won't wear a mask, won't vaccinate and won't respect the rights of others (most of us) who do. That's not freedom of choice - it is antisocial behavior.

If you choose not to participate with the rest of society during a health care crisis then the consequences are that you may be excluded from certain things - like large gatherings or crowded places. At least until everyone else has done the hard work for you and reduced transmission rates.

I could not disagree more.

If no one had guns, no one would be shot. If no one was allowed to drive a car, there’d be no auto accident deaths. I could go on and on.
 

Some of us prefer freedom.

Edited March 16, 2021 by gregintenn

[Swamp ash]

31 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I could not disagree more.

If no one had guns, no one would be shot. If no one was allowed to drive a car, there’d be no auto accident deaths. I could go on and on.
 

Some of us prefer freedom.

Folks are free to do what they want as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights (and certainly the health!) of others.

However, they need to accept the consequence of their choices, which in this case, means limiting contact and respecting the rights of the majority who made the informed choice to protect themselves and others. 

Don't worry, other people will make the commitment to take care of the problem for you. It will just take longer and more folks than necessary will become sick. It seems  that there are some folks who just don't care about anyone but their selfish selves. I have to wonder why these folks even want to participate in society with others.

Your "examples" have no real relation to the problem of the pandemic, however, legally, you can't come into a crowd and shoot guns; you can't drive your car across my property, etc. There are absolutely no absolutes with freedom or anything else.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Swamp ash

[gregintenn]

11 minutes ago, Swamp ash said:

Folks are free to do what they want as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights (and certainly the health!) of others.

However, they need to accept the consequence of their choices, which in this case, means limiting contact and respecting the rights of the majority who made the informed choice to protect themselves and others. 

Don't worry, other people will make the commitment to take care of the problem for you. It will just take longer and more folks than necessary will become sick. It seems  that there are some folks who just don't care about anyone but their selfish selves. I have to wonder why these folks even want to participate in society with others.

Your "examples" have no real relation to the problem of the pandemic, however, legally, you can't come into a crowd and shoot guns; you can't drive your car across my property, etc. There are absolutely no absolutes with freedom or anything else.

Why haven’t we been wearing masks to prevent the flu?

[Swamp ash]

5 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Why haven’t we been wearing masks to prevent the flu?

You could, but health experts think there is not much need. Why? Because there are flu Vaccines - lol!

Getting back to the driving analogy and societal convention: why don't you express your 'Freedom' and start  driving in the left-hand lanes? 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Swamp ash

[gregintenn]

9 minutes ago, Swamp ash said:

You could, but health experts think there is not much need. Why? Because there are flu Vaccines - lol!

Getting back to the driving analogy and societal convention: why don't you express your 'Freedom' and start  driving in the left-hand lanes? 

Whether or not I wear a mask has zero bearing on your health. Your right to not be offended or disagreed with does not exist.

I obey traffic laws  because I do not want to cause or be involved in a collision. If I do so without a mask, the outcome does not change.

It has no bearing on me whether you do or don’t wear a mask or get a vaccine. It does have a bearing on me when you press the government to mandate these things just to make you feel superior.

Edited March 16, 2021 by gregintenn

[Swamp ash]

1 minute ago, gregintenn said:

Whether or not I wear a mask has zero bearing on your health. Your right to be offended or disagreed with does not exist.

I obey traffic laws  because I do not want to cause or be involved in a collision. If I do so without a mask, the outcome does not change.

COVID-19 is a transmissible disease that affects the health of people around you - FACT.

People obey social distancing, mask mandates and vaccination protocols because they don't want to spread or become infected with the disease. 

 

[gregintenn]

6 minutes ago, Swamp ash said:

COVID-19 is a transmissible disease that affects the health of people around you - FACT.

People obey social distancing, mask mandates and vaccination protocols because they don't want to spread or become infected with the disease. 

 

That’s great. I avoid crowds of people just because I find them uncomfortable to be around. Maybe you can take some solace in that. I can pretty much assure you I haven’t spread the covid virus.

Back when we thought for ourselves, we quarantined sick and infected people, and the healthy people went on about their business. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by gregintenn

[Swamp ash]

Finally, I'd Like to give big props to @hipower who started this thread to share his personal journey. It takes strength to share this decision with folks he knew would respond negatively.

 It is quite the pity that others feel inclined to dismiss this very personal decision and argue incessantly against vaccination or extol that their rights are being infringed. This is a disservice to everyone here and very selfish to hijack such a thread to turn it into an anti-vax vehicle

If you want to start a thread about your conspiracies with the Vaccination, then do so. In the meantime, you should consider that perhaps your comments in this thread may be discouraging to others, and quite frankly, that is unconscionable.