Nashville Shootout Body Cam Footage

[Ray Z]

Saved us a lot of money in court costs

[Omega]

21 minutes ago, Ray Z said:

Saved us a lot of money in court costs

Unfortunately no, they will sue and the government will settle.  It's a win-win for these people, live and they sue, die and their family sues no matter how good the shoot was.  The only upside is there is one less of them to to continue their criminal endeavours.

[deerslayer]

15 hours ago, JayC said:

So if he smelled drugs, he never stated that in the video, and you'd think they would have included that part of the video if he did.

I think the intent of the video was to possibly deter BLM/Antifa from laying siege to Nashville, not to prove adherence to Constitutional criminal procedure.  It is bizarre that police departments now feel compelled to do this, but that’s how things are now.  

Edited March 18, 2021 by deerslayer

[btq96r]

Some takeaways as I saw this video a while back, but didn't want to be the one to post it here (thanks to @Omega for broaching the topic).

1)  Very true that things go from zero to one hundred fast here.  The officer had a good reaction time to escelation events as they happened.

1a)  The officer needed that good reaction time because the situation had gotten out of hand as others have pointed out.  We can debate his weight, but I wouldn't be surprised if she saw officer Tubby McCracker as soft and felt emboldened.

2)  This woman doesn't seem a net benefit to society, and I don't for one second condone her shooting the officer, or even grabbing the weapon.  Still in a better world, the weed being (presumably) was the reason the officer got to search her and put her into fight or flight mode is at best debatable insofar as should it be a crime or not.  Our laws in at least some way contributed to this event's conclusion.

 

17 hours ago, JayC said:

Ok, I'm probably in the minority here, but what was his reason for continuing the stop after he determined there was no male in the vehicle?  He lost all probable cause to continue the detainment of the female driver instant he knew the wanted felon was not present. 

Why was he going through the drivers bag to begin with?  He no longer had the right to detain her, he didn't have her consent to search the bag. 

We can talk about the fact he was nice to the lady, but the truth is it appears he violated her constitutional rights and escalated the situation into an arrest without probable cause that a crime was committed at the point he was digging around in her purse.

As she said, 'him having warrants has nothing to do with me'.

Don't get me wrong, she should have just shut up and let the arrest go forward, a good lawyer would have been able to throw shade on the detention and the search of the bag, might have even got the drugs thrown out.  \

Shooting the cop was wrong, but the situation is a lot more nuance IMHO.

Very similar questions.  I'm sure the weed was the gate into it all, and that I do have some issues with, which leads me to...

15 hours ago, KahrMan said:

When he walked up to the car to talk to her one of the first things he asked her was where the weed was.  Raw weed is very easy to smell when you are not around it everyday.  I am sure he smelled it.  She said it was in her bag and let him retrieve it.  

If this is a dime bag PC situation that lead to shootings...well, it'll be time for my refrain on how we need to just legalize weed because all the laws against it are doing is enabling government actions.

Remove the laws about personal quantities of weed, and this situation is a lot different.  Nobody dead or in the hospital most likely.

 

1 hour ago, Dirtshooter said:

This should serve as a reminder to all of us. Even the LEO can't get LEO backup to them quick enough. You/me should assume we are on our own and the cavalry may not get to us in time to help, but maybe just to do the chalk outlines!! That is why where I reside and 30 minutes or more before the cavalry arrives, 1,100-1,200 FPS are my backup!

One armchair question is what urgent need to act on the stop is there until backup arrives?  Once the car is pulled over, I would think the officer could wait for another cruiser to show up and help with the encounter. Bit of tactical patience could have prevented a lot here, but I may be wrong in that.

 

2 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

I think the intent of the video was to possibly deter BLM/Antifa from laying siege to Nashville, not to prove adherence to Constitutional criminal procedure.  It is bizarre that police departments now feel compelled to do this, but that’s how things are now.  

The questionable standards of BLM/Antifa aside, I like that police departments feel the need to justify their actions to the public, especially when it comes to the lethal use of force.  I'm not unhappy that government agents have a bit of fear from the governed reminding them where their authority comes from in the first place.  Again, this may not be a perfect example of the Jeffersonian process in action, but it's a good start.

[deerslayer]

6 minutes ago, btq96r said:

The questionable standards of BLM/Antifa aside, I like that police departments feel the need to justify their actions to the public, especially when it comes to the lethal use of force.  I'm not unhappy that government agents have a bit of fear from the governed reminding them where their authority comes from in the first place.  Again, this may not be a perfect example of the Jeffersonian process in action, but it's a good start.

I agree that government agencies occasionally feeling the need to be held accountable is a good thing, but it’s a sad day when they produce a video merely to prevent a mob from getting whipped into a frenzy by people with bad information, no information, or fabricated information and burning the place down.  

[Dirtshooter]

17 hours ago, chances R said:

I would disagree with you on the 'probable cause" point.  Driving a suspected felon's car with outstanding warrants would create PC IMO.  Did she steal the car?  Part of a drug dealers distributor?  If she had been more cooperative, maybe she wouldn't have gotten so much attention.  

Once again the LEO had a very legal right to pull this car over. If you hang out with felons, perhaps deal a little drugs, have a list of arrests, and your attitude DUH will get the spidey sense of anyone a little keener. If he smelled weed, that is probable cause to search the vehicle. I would have cuffed her and placed her in the patrol car while I searched, she may have gotten off with a small if any ticket. After I found the gun in her purse, I would have checked to see if she was a CCP person, if gun was stolen etc. A whole long laundry list of things. But it basically boils down to are you a thug, or are you a stand up citizen. Are you an asset or liability to society? Your decisions in life make you one or another. I don't care what color your skin is, what kind of house you live in, or the kind of car you drive, but I do care if you value other people's as well as your own life.

[btq96r]

1 minute ago, Dirtshooter said:

After I found the gun in her purse, I would have checked to see if she was a CCP person, if gun was stolen etc.

They can run the gun's SN, and see if she has her 2A rights denied for any reason, but let's remember castle doctrine has been extended to a vehicle, and no kind of permit is needed to justify it's presence in the vehicle if they can't prove she isn't legally able to own one.

[Dirtshooter]

1 minute ago, btq96r said:

They can run the gun's SN, and see if she has her 2A rights denied for any reason, but let's remember castle doctrine has been extended to a vehicle, and no kind of permit is needed to justify it's presence in the vehicle if they can't prove she isn't legally able to own one.

That is true, but if the LEO smelled weed, the gig is up and he has the right to search the vehicle and it's contents. That is the probable cause clause.

[Omega]

37 minutes ago, btq96r said:

Some takeaways as I saw this video a while back, but didn't want to be the one to post it here (thanks to @Omega for broaching the topic).

1)  Very true that things go from zero to one hundred fast here.  The officer had a good reaction time to escelation events as they happened.

1a)  The officer needed that good reaction time because the situation had gotten out of hand as others have pointed out.  We can debate his weight, but I wouldn't be surprised if she saw officer Tubby McCracker as soft and felt emboldened.

2)  This woman doesn't seem a net benefit to society, and I don't for one second condone her shooting the officer, or even grabbing the weapon.  Still in a better world, the weed being (presumably) was the reason the officer got to search her and put her into fight or flight mode is at best debatable insofar as should it be a crime or not.  Our laws in at least some way contributed to this event's conclusion.

 

Very similar questions.  I'm sure the weed was the gate into it all, and that I do have some issues with, which leads me to...

If this is a dime bag PC situation that lead to shootings...well, it'll be time for my refrain on how we need to just legalize weed because all the laws against it are doing is enabling government actions.

Remove the laws about personal quantities of weed, and this situation is a lot different.  Nobody dead or in the hospital most likely.

 

One armchair question is what urgent need to act on the stop is there until backup arrives?  Once the car is pulled over, I would think the officer could wait for another cruiser to show up and help with the encounter. Bit of tactical patience could have prevented a lot here, but I may be wrong in that.

 

The questionable standards of BLM/Antifa aside, I like that police departments feel the need to justify their actions to the public, especially when it comes to the lethal use of force.  I'm not unhappy that government agents have a bit of fear from the governed reminding them where their authority comes from in the first place.  Again, this may not be a perfect example of the Jeffersonian process in action, but it's a good start.

I am all in favor of legalizing weed, but I think in this case, she also had a baggie full of some powder, he pulled a second bag out after he laid the first on his dash.  But, it is currently illegal to have weed, and this was not the place to argue the validity of the arrest for an illegal substance, I am willing to bet that if the weed was all he found, he would have let her slide with a warning and confiscation of the drugs.  She would be alive today with either nothing, a ticket, or a trial if she would not have reacted in the manner she did.

[Daniel]

12 hours ago, btq96r said:

The questionable standards of BLM/Antifa aside, I like that police departments feel the need to justify their actions to the public, especially when it comes to the lethal use of force.  I'm not unhappy that government agents have a bit of fear from the governed reminding them where their authority comes from in the first place.  Again, this may not be a perfect example of the Jeffersonian process in action, but it's a good start.

Exactly.