CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY

[papa61]

Just a random devil's advocate thought. If Tennessee passes the "constitutional carry" bill into law and US congress passes national reciprocity will we be able to carry nationwide without a permit??

I'm all atwitter.

[chances R]

with all that is going on?  Yes and we will all be getting around on flying unicorns.......

[Quavodus]

I can't wait till I get my flying unicorn. I want a Appaloosa and  I'll name him Sparky. Seriously though, I hope it goes through but, I'm not holding my breath.

[DO-TN]

I really do hope TN passes it. Not a snowball's chance on national though. We had it in my previous state and wiht the exception of one or two dumbasses, nothing "bad" ever happened. What TN will need is a supremacy clause with it. That way local entitites can't pass ordinaces that make you illegal just becuase you crossed some city limit.

[krunchnik]

Even if we pass Constitutional Carry we will still need to retain our HCP enhanced-the only way to carry legally in the States that are reciprocal with Tennessee.

Nationally I see a snowballs chance in Hades to succeed.

[Erik88]

I don't want this on a national level. I want it only at the state level. I think it has a shot at passing with Bill Lee's support.

[Grayfox54]

38 minutes ago, krunchnik said:

Even if we pass Constitutional Carry we will still need to retain our HCP enhanced-the only way to carry legally in the States that are reciprocal with Tennessee.

That's my question. Living here in the corner, I sometimes travel into Arkansas and Mississippi. If we go Constitutional, can those of us with Handgun permits keep and renew them or will permits just go away? 

[Snaveba]

I have not read the current bill to pass constitutional carry in Tennessee so I am not familiar with what if any stipulations there will be. 

I believe it the right that we all have under 2A to keep and bear arms. 
 

However, I do take a little personal comfort (maybe rightly, maybe ignorantly) that if there are folks around me who are carrying, they have had at least a some instruction in the use of a handgun and at least have been introduced to the laws regarding the legal use of said firearm to defend themselves or others. 
 

As responsible gun owners, we all understand that it is incumbent on us to train, learn, and be safe.
 

Unfortunately there are A LOT of irresponsible people out there.  With constitutional carry, any yahoo who can legally own a handgun, can carry said handgun even if they have never held one before, shot one before, or have any knowledge or understanding of the laws and regulations pertaining to its use. 
 

I think about the lady who took it upon herself to shoot at a fleeing shoplifter, hitting the store employee instead. I don’t know the laws in the state in which that occurred, but in Tennessee she committed several felonies. 
 

I’m not saying a 60min online class to get your CCP or an 8 hour class to get your ECP makes us safe. But at least it opens the door to the knowledge needed to carry a handgun responsibly. 

[AuEagle]

Keeping & Bearing Arms is a Right not a privilege.

If you believe in the Constitution there should be no howevers.

Politicians have constantly usurped our rights with controls & stipulations for the "common good or for the children."

Living in Freedom has so many rewards & very few risks.

Edited February 27, 2021 by AuEagle

[Chucktshoes]

43 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

That's my question. Living here in the corner, I sometimes travel into Arkansas and Mississippi. If we go Constitutional, can those of us with Handgun permits keep and renew them or will permits just go away? 

The ConCarry bills only remove the necessity to get a permit. They do not affect the permit system that already exists. The permit will still be there for those that wish to acquire one. 

[papa61]

Now we get into the heart of keep and bear arms. What would you consider infringement? According to federal case law from the Jim Crow era, you cannot attach a fee or test to any God given Constitutionally guaranteed right. So what is a TICS fee and CCW class and test? Be patient. I believe any person who can legally walk our streets should be able to walk into any store selling firearms and purchase arms, ammo, and holster and walk out strapped. Do we have people that shouldn't walk our streets? Yes of course we do but that is another subject. Remember I said legally walk our streets. Consider the felon who has served his time (not early release/parole/probation) is his life worth less than yours or mine? what about his wife and children who deserve the protection we all hold dear? THIS is my belief on who should be able to keep and arm themselves including in public.

I have had training. My father trained me, my grandfather trained me, my uncles and older cousins trained me, and my Uncle Sam trained me. How long has it been since you completed your CCW training? How many new laws regarding carry and use of force have been enacted since? Are you sure?? How many CCW permit holders retained anything from the class longer than to pass an exam? How many instructors don't care if you learn anything as long as they get paid? I'm not picking on anyone but we all know there are those out there who fit these descriptions. For that matter, how many LEO are not well trained yet we think nothing of their ability to carry.

Now I am not familiar with the lady shooting a store clerk during a shoplifting and no reference is there so my opinion here may be off. With any right comes responsibility. If one owns a firearm it is one's responsibility to learn and understand the rules and laws regarding the use of that firearm just as it is their responsibility to use the correct ammo, loading procedures, safe handling and on and on. No? Ignorance is no excuse when it comes to law. In addition to what I was taught mentioned earlier, I have also continued to study through magazines, news articles, internet vids, and my fellow gunners. I could be behind on this one but I will stand behind and use this rule for unholstering my firearm; if one is justified in drawing their weapon they are justified to pull the trigger. In other words, keep in in leather until you are justified in USING it. This applies partially to LEO who should not POINT at anyone they are not fully justified in shooting. I give law enforcement a pass on having weapons at ready. another point is one of the cardinal rules of firearms, DO NOT POINT/COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO KILL/DESTROY. If the shoplifter was fleeing and unarmed that is the end of the story or should have been. We should all know the rules of who you can and cannot shoot. Add those two previous together and you have a no shoot no draw. The responsibility falls completely on the armed lady who pulled and fired. Not the city, state, or federal government nor you or I.

Y'all be nice now. cut me to shreds in a way that won't stop the discussion. We do not have to agree to be civil.

[Grayfox54]

Thanks Chuck. I could see problems trying to explain your gun to an officer in another state if you didn't have an actual permit on your person. I believe I'll just keep renewing mine. 

I do see Snaveba's point. There are a lot of really stupid people out there. It does worry me some that there will be untrained people out there carrying guns. OTOH, there are a lot of them out there right now. Many. many people carry guns every day without a permit. I've known quite a few myself.   

 I think this may turn into a self correcting problem. Once a couple of idiots screw up badly and the news media blows it out of proportion, Hopefully other idiots will reconsider there choices or at least study up on the law and go to the range once in a while. Also bear in mind that no sane person, no matter how stupid they are,  wants to shoot anybody.  

Honestly, I think the one thing that would be the best answer would be to teach firearms training, handling and law to young people in our Public School system.  But we all know that'll never happen. 

[papa61]

3 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

Thanks Chuck. I could see problems trying to explain your gun to an officer in another state if you didn't have an actual permit on your person. I believe I'll just keep renewing mine. 

I do see Snaveba's point. There are a lot of really stupid people out there. It does worry me some that there will be untrained people out there carrying guns. OTOH, there are a lot of them out there right now. Many. many people carry guns every day without a permit. I've known quite a few myself.   

 I think this may turn into a self correcting problem. Once a couple of idiots screw up badly and the news media blows it out of proportion, Hopefully other idiots will reconsider there choices or at least study up on the law and go to the range once in a while. Also bear in mind that no sane person, no matter how stupid they are,  wants to shoot anybody.  

Honestly, I think the one thing that would be the best answer would be to teach firearms training, handling and law to young people in our Public School system.  But we all know that'll never happen. 

Agreed no NORMAL person wants to shoot anyone but I don't want to go as far as any SANE person and give the idiots an out. Not trying to be funny, we have ambulance chasers that will do it.

I also agree that at the very least we need basic gun safety in schools. I have told my non gun owning friends they should teach or have their children taught this from an early age. you cannot control what the household where your children's friends live so they will encounter a firearm at some point. Better it be from you or a good trainer.

I learned my middle son could climb to the top of my closet. This made me buy a lockable handgun case. Fortunately the only damage was a hole in a piece of furniture and a bump on the forehead. And I can assure you he had been taught, child is rebellious to this day.

 

[Erik88]

1 hour ago, Snaveba said:

I have not read the current bill to pass constitutional carry in Tennessee so I am not familiar with what if any stipulations there will be. 

I believe it the right that we all have under 2A to keep and bear arms. 
 

However, I do take a little personal comfort (maybe rightly, maybe ignorantly) that if there are folks around me who are carrying, they have had at least a some instruction in the use of a handgun and at least have been introduced to the laws regarding the legal use of said firearm to defend themselves or others. 
 

As responsible gun owners, we all understand that it is incumbent on us to train, learn, and be safe.
 

Unfortunately there are A LOT of irresponsible people out there.  With constitutional carry, any yahoo who can legally own a handgun, can carry said handgun even if they have never held one before, shot one before, or have any knowledge or understanding of the laws and regulations pertaining to its use. 
 

I think about the lady who took it upon herself to shoot at a fleeing shoplifter, hitting the store employee instead. I don’t know the laws in the state in which that occurred, but in Tennessee she committed several felonies. 
 

I’m not saying a 60min online class to get your CCP or an 8 hour class to get your ECP makes us safe. But at least it opens the door to the knowledge needed to carry a handgun responsibly. 

Nothing about the current permit process actually gives me any warm feelings about those people being trained. Your concerns, while valid, haven't caused any problems in the 9-10 states that now have constitutional carry. Vermont has been this way for decades and it hasn't led to any major issues that I'm aware of. 

I don't see any increased risk to the public by moving to constitutional carry. And if there are risks, they should be accepted in a free society. Much like requiring someone to get a drivers license doesn't make them a safe driver. I'd be all for scrapping that requirement too. 

[Chucktshoes]

38 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

Thanks Chuck. I could see problems trying to explain your gun to an officer in another state if you didn't have an actual permit on your person. I believe I'll just keep renewing mine. 

I do see Snaveba's point. There are a lot of really stupid people out there. It does worry me some that there will be untrained people out there carrying guns. OTOH, there are a lot of them out there right now. Many. many people carry guns every day without a permit. I've known quite a few myself.   

 I think this may turn into a self correcting problem. Once a couple of idiots screw up badly and the news media blows it out of proportion, Hopefully other idiots will reconsider there choices or at least study up on the law and go to the range once in a while. Also bear in mind that no sane person, no matter how stupid they are,  wants to shoot anybody.  

Honestly, I think the one thing that would be the best answer would be to teach firearms training, handling and law to young people in our Public School system.  But we all know that'll never happen. 

In state con carry has no reciprocity. As an example, Vermont, the original Con Carry state, has no permitting system. Citizens of Vermont have to acquire non-resident permits from other states to allow them to carry outside of Vermont. 
 

So while I absolutely desire a true Constitutional Carry bill to pass, I will keep my permit as I do require the ability to carry outside of TN. 

[papa61]

8 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

In state con carry has no reciprocity. As an example, Vermont, the original Con Carry state, has no permitting system. Citizens of Vermont have to acquire non-resident permits from other states to allow them to carry outside of Vermont. 
 

So while I absolutely desire a true Constitutional Carry bill to pass, I will keep my permit as I do require the ability to carry outside of TN. 

I can understand your stance and support you having that choice. That is why I raised the question although sarcastically. We need this type of discussion to stay ahead of the curve. 

[Moped]

If Con Carry is passed, I have every intension of keeping my HCP, if the system is still in place.  One of the big draws for me to get my HCP was the ability to carry outside of Tennessee, in states that I travel too. 

I must confess, that part of me would love to see National Recip passed, just to give the finger to New York, Cali and the other states of that ilk.  However, I see this as much more dangerous to our rights in this State, so I do not support it.

[Grayfox54]

National reciprocity would be a good thing. It simply means that all states are required to honor a permit from any other state. Just like they do driver's licenses. 

I believe what you're thinking about is a National CCW permit. That would be an absolute disaster. 

[Quavodus]

I agree that constitutional carry would be bad in some ways. Like some of the crazy people that keep being born but, it does say, the right to bear firearms , shall not be infringed. If it could be restricted on crazy bat---- people that don't need a gun, much less a fly swatter, then it we be fine. 

[Worriedman]

On 2/27/2021 at 1:28 PM, Erik88 said:

Vermont has been this way for decades and it hasn't led to any major issues that I'm aware of. 

 

 

Vermont has never had a requirement for a permit, since 1791 when it entered the Union.  

[Worriedman]

6 hours ago, Moped said:

If Con Carry is passed, I have every intension of keeping my HCP, if the system is still in place. 

None of the Constitutional Carry Bills in Tennessee have ever sought to do away with our original Handgun Carry Permit (now Enhanced) for reasons of reciprocity.

[Worriedman]

On 2/27/2021 at 1:28 PM, Erik88 said:

 the 9-10 states that now have constitutional carry.

We currently sit at 21 States with some form of Constitutional Carry and 19 with good laws.  In addition, every State contiguous to Tennessee except Stacy Abramsland already has permitless Open Carry, with AR, MS, and KY having concealed as well.

[chances R]

On 2/27/2021 at 7:30 AM, DO-TN said:

I really do hope TN passes it. Not a snowball's chance on national though. We had it in my previous state and wiht the exception of one or two dumbasses, nothing "bad" ever happened. What TN will need is a supremacy clause with it. That way local entitites can't pass ordinaces that make you illegal just becuase you crossed some city limit.

No need for the clause.  TN addressed that years ago.  Only the State legislature may create laws regarding weapons with minimal exceptions.

On 2/27/2021 at 11:41 AM, krunchnik said:

Even if we pass Constitutional Carry we will still need to retain our HCP enhanced-the only way to carry legally in the States that are reciprocal with Tennessee.

Nationally I see a snowballs chance in Hades to succeed.

Both ECP and CCP have reciprocity.  Minimal differences in privileges.

[Worriedman]

13 minutes ago, chances R said:

Both ECP and CCP have reciprocity.  Minimal differences in privileges.

Can you get a life time with the CCP?  Does it allow for carry in greenways and many parks?  Does it allow for keeping in a vehicle on school parking lot?

[chances R]

12 minutes ago, Worriedman said:

Can you get a life time with the CCP?  Does it allow for carry in greenways and many parks?  Does it allow for keeping in a vehicle on school parking lot?

No

Yes

Yes

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