Has the law changed?

[Daps]

If you get pulled over, assume your tags get run, and that they know you have a permit, and it's probably a real good idea to play nice and own up. That's what the classes teach. So you can have your way, but they have the badge and playing nice gives us a good rep.

Your permit isn't tied to your tags, it's tied to your DL. I'll tell when asked.

[Guest Ggun]

If you just got pulled over by a police officer, chances are he or she didn't blue-light you just because they wanted to say Hi. That being the case, now isn't the time to be cute and play games with them about your rights. Every officer I've spoken with has said they greatly appreciate being told that you're armed and that you have a HCP rather than having to find out by surprise when they run your DL. Then it becomes a question for them of "Does this guy have his gun with him?" and it's something they will be even more edgy about when they come back to your car.

I say do the right thing and just tell them up front. No sense being cute about it just because the law says you don't have to. The law shouldn't have to legislate common courtesy.

At some point several years ago the State started assigning HCP permit numbers the holder's DL number, so it's usually the same number.

While I don't agree that being silent is equal to being cute about it, I do agree that it is common courtesy to offer the HCP to an officer if addressed in an official manner. Then, the ball is in their court to ask about whether you are armed, where it is, etc.

If you across the line into North Carolina, inform is the law.

[Guest Ggun]

You don't have to say anything or answer any questions of any sort. Everything you say will be in the report. Give them your license and let them do their thing. after watching some of the lawyer videos and being at the academy, I'm not saying anything. Not gonna be difficult, but if I'm under arrest I'm not saying a word. BTW a traffic stop is an arrest.

If a police officer, at a traffic stop, asks you if you are armed, I wouldn't suggest sitting there not saying a word.

[Smith]

If a police officer, at a traffic stop, asks you if you are armed, I wouldn't suggest sitting there not saying a word.

If you have a valid permit it doesn't matter.

[TGO David]

So wouldn't the easiest and best thing be simply for the LEO lobby to introduce a bill that requires immediate notification? If it was the law I would follow it and in all honesty not really bitch about it that much. But LEOs already have enough authority over you without giving them any they don't have.

Yeah, and then the first time you FORGET to mention it to the officer because you're nervous about being pulled over or any number of other reasons, they can arrest you and revoke your carry permit for failure to notify.

The law seems to have been written this way much the same as it was to call our carry permits "Handgun CARRY Permits" rather than concealed carry permits. Namely because somewhere, someone was thinking about the what-if scenarios and thought it best to include some latitude in the law to keep us from hanging ourselves out of carelessness.

My feelings on this issue are the same as they are on open carry. Yeah, the law allows both but common sense dictates that some personal responsibility on the part of the armed citizen is expected. With freedom comes responsibility, even if that freedom is being issued to you in exchange for a tax.

Just my $0.02 worth on it and I'm sure there will be a dozen or two replies about why I'm wrong and how my attitude somehow constitutes being the government's lap dog.

I really don't see it as being cute if you choose not to inform at least no more cute than saying no if they knock on your front door and want to come in and just look around no reason.

Sorry, I'm not interested in having a strawman argument. The subject at hand is whether you should willfully inform the officer who just pulled you over that you are a HCP holder and that you are presently armed versus him finding out by surprise. Suppose you move to get your insurance and registration and he sees the gun? Now you've got a pissed off cop with HIS gun aimed at you, commanding you to get out of the car with your hands visible. Potentially you end up sitting on the ground in handcuffs (for his safety!) while he makes sure you're legit.

I'd rather tell the cop up front and have better odds that he's going to continue conducting business in a friendly, albeit professional, manner rather than have me cuffed and stuffed.

There's a huge difference between this issue and the matter of your Fourth Amendment rights.

[Fallguy]

I thought LEOs weren't out to just arrest everybody for anything, like because you might forget something by being nervious etc...

I agree that "what ifs" where taken into consideration as far as "carry" opposed to "concealed carry" as well as "must present upon demand" opposed to "must notify"

I also agree that it is better to inform than let then be surprised you are armed. If I was asked to step out of the car, etc... I would inform them before it was seen or found by a pat down. But I still feel that handing over your HCP with your DL or bringing up right off the bat has to potential to create an issue where there might not otherwise be one. But I have no problems with anyone if that is what they choose to do. But I feel they shouldn't have a problem with those that choose not to.

As far as officer "preference" I'm sure there are some officers that would prefer that no one except them carry...that way they would know everone with a gun had it illegaly. So an officer's preference is not always my top concern as long as I am within the law.

I guess my biggest thing is that simply volunteering the information somehow implies that being armed is something dirty or to be ashamed of or that you need some sort of defense for being legally armed. Sort of why I don't like HCP badges...not because I think you are imperonating a LEO, but because it's like simply having the HCP is somehow not good enough to be able to carry...that you need some other type of authority.

I just don't feel like I should have to inform him I am doing something legal.

I don't hunt or fish so I don't know, but for those that do hunt and fish....if the game warden comes upon you, do just show him your hunting or fishing license as soon as he walks up or do you wait to see if he asks to see it?

[Fallguy]

Also just let me say....it has been years since I have had any interactions with a LEO on a traffic stop or simillar incident.

And of the few times I have, I was not armed.....so I admit I am speaking more of feelings and views on the matter as opposed to actual situations I've been in or choices I have had to make.

[dralarms]

Where is the dead horse smiley when you need one? This subject has been run into the ground on more than one occasion.

Anybody got a bottle of thread lock?

[TGO David]

Where is the dead horse smiley when you need one? This subject has been run into the ground on more than one occasion.

Anybody got a bottle of thread lock?

Well, I'd be the guy to lock the thread and if we closed down every single one that covered an issue that had been beaten into the ground, it'd get pretty quiet around here.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

Where is the dead horse smiley when you need one? This subject has been run into the ground on more than one occasion.

Anybody got a bottle of thread lock?

In support of Tungie, a thread shouldn't be closed because one person is tired of it. If your tired of it and or not interested anymore.. then just don't read that thread anymore.. ie ignore it.

[Tim Nunan]

All this makes me wonder if after running a license officers ever ask "Are you armed?" of a driver that doesn't have an HCP.

[Mike.357]

So should you still cough up the HCP even if you do not have a heater with you at the moment?

I figure I am handing them the drivers license, insurance card and HCP right out of the gate if I ever get pulled over. Even on the odd chance I am not carrying at that moment.

I took my HCP class from a Knox County sheriff and telling them upfront was what we were advised to do.

[dralarms]

Well, I'd be the guy to lock the thread and if we closed down every single one that covered an issue that had been beaten into the ground, it'd get pretty quiet around here.

That's true.

In support of Tungie, a thread shouldn't be closed because one person is tired of it. If your tired of it and or not interested anymore.. then just don't read that thread anymore.. ie ignore it.

Hey it was a joke, you know a funny comment.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

If you have a valid permit it doesn't matter.

if the officer asks you have to tell him.

[Guest frankcostanza]

I feel better about just getting it out of the way up front. I got in a fender bender a couple months ago and happened to be carrying at the time. When the state trooper showed up and asked for my license & registration, I handed over my HCP along with everything else. He looked at it, handed it back and never said a word about it.

I guess I don't see the harm in informing a cop right off the bat. For me personally, I have nothing to hide. In my mind, the worst thing that could come of this is the cop asking me to hand the gun over for the duration of the traffic stop. Big deal. I can't imagine that after disarming me, he would force me to my knees and plant a bullet in the back of my head.

I guess like anything else, it's a personal decision whether or not you inform the cop you are carrying. I tend to agree with Tungsten and others though. It may not be required by law, but I think its the right thing to do.

[Guest Ggun]

I feel better about just getting it out of the way up front. I got in a fender bender a couple months ago and happened to be carrying at the time. When the state trooper showed up and asked for my license & registration, I handed over my HCP along with everything else. He looked at it, handed it back and never said a word about it.

I guess I don't see the harm in informing a cop right off the bat. For me personally, I have nothing to hide. In my mind, the worst thing that could come of this is the cop asking me to hand the gun over for the duration of the traffic stop. Big deal. I can't imagine that after disarming me, he would force me to my knees and plant a bullet in the back of my head.

I guess like anything else, it's a personal decision whether or not you inform the cop you are carrying. I tend to agree with Tungsten and others though. It may not be required by law, but I think its the right thing to do.

I read your post to say that you handed the HCP to the officer along with DL and IC. Did you leave it at that or did you specifically inform him that you were armed?

[BIG ROB]

I can tell you as an LEO, I usually let CPH slide on minor traffic citations. I feel like they are vetted good people for the most part. We all know that there are some bad apples who have permits. Just like there are bad people in every aspect of the world.

Sure you don't have to volunteer the info. Just like you don't HAVE to change your oil every 3000 miles but it makes good sense. Tell them and see where it goes. What bad can come from it?

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

I can tell you as an LEO, I usually let CPH slide on minor traffic citations. I feel like they are vetted good people for the most part. We all know that there are some bad apples who have permits. Just like there are bad people in every aspect of the world.

Sure you don't have to volunteer the info. Just like you don't HAVE to change your oil every 3000 miles but it makes good sense. Tell them and see where it goes. What bad can come from it?

I agree with this fine officer, every time I've been pulled over I'll tell the officer up front if I'm armed or not and keep my hands where they can see them at all times. 3 times I've been sent on my way with just a warning and two of those times was by a state trooper, and they hardly let anybody off with a warning.

[Guest frankcostanza]

I read your post to say that you handed the HCP to the officer along with DL and IC. Did you leave it at that or did you specifically inform him that you were armed?

I handed him my HCP and left it at that. I figured if he wanted to ask me about it further he could, but I was thinking its better to volunteer the info up front rather than have him run my drivers license and find out on his own. Anyways, he just handed the permit back to me and didnt say anything else about it.

[dralarms]

I agree with this fine officer, every time I've been pulled over I'll tell the officer up front if I'm armed or not and keep my hands where they can see them at all times. 3 times I've been sent on my way with just a warning and two of those times was by a state trooper, and they hardly let anybody off with a warning.

Saw the funniest thing this morning. Saw a state trooper on I75 that had stopped a TDOT truck and was giving them a ticket.

[BIG ROB]

Once I am given the permit, I usually ask if they are currently carrying. You probably wouldn't be surprised at how many say no. But if they are then the next question is where is the weapon. It usually doesn't go past that. A few months ago a guy had a really nice kimber.

He let me finger it a bit. I told him if he ever got ready to part with it to give me a call. It was a very nice weapon.

I do the training for my department and we discuss permit carriers and how to handle them. You would be surprised at how little most places train on the subject. We also teach the carry permit class a couple times per month. This has been outstanding for our community. I tell the students the same thing I said here. Identify yourself is IMO the best response but it's up to them.

[TGO David]

I told a story here back when I first started TGO, about an incident that I had with a Smyrna PD officer and a silly unfounded "revenge" style complaint a lady made about me in a parking lot.

To make a long story short, when I returned to my vehicle I found the officer waiting for me. He told me what was going on, I explained why I thought the complaint had been made, he and I agreed that it was probably just a nonsensical revenge sort of thing but he also wanted to see my driver's license just to make sure there weren't any warrants on me or anything like that. Standard procedure.

I gladly complied but informed him at that moment that I was a HCP holder and that I was armed, and that the firearm was back on my rear flank close to where my wallet was. I didn't want him seeing a flash of the gun and the situation get real bad, real fast right?

The officer's reply was utter professionalism. He just smiled and said, "That's fine with me. Just don't draw yours and I won't draw mine, ok?"

[Punisher84]

I told a story here back when I first started TGO, about an incident that I had with a Smyrna PD officer and a silly unfounded "revenge" style complaint a lady made about me in a parking lot.

To make a long story short, when I returned to my vehicle I found the officer waiting for me. He told me what was going on, I explained why I thought the complaint had been made, he and I agreed that it was probably just a nonsensical revenge sort of thing but he also wanted to see my driver's license just to make sure there weren't any warrants on me or anything like that. Standard procedure.

I gladly complied but informed him at that moment that I was a HCP holder and that I was armed, and that the firearm was back on my rear flank close to where my wallet was. I didn't want him seeing a flash of the gun and the situation get real bad, real fast right?

The officer's reply was utter professionalism. He just smiled and said, "That's fine with me. Just don't draw yours and I won't draw mine, ok?"

God I remember that story. That's been some time lol

[Guest Ggun]

I handed him my HCP and left it at that. I figured if he wanted to ask me about it further he could, but I was thinking its better to volunteer the info up front rather than have him run my drivers license and find out on his own. Anyways, he just handed the permit back to me and didnt say anything else about it.

Ok, that's my practice as well. But, I don't open carry, nor do I set my handgun somewhere visible in the car.

There's something about saying "I have a gun" to an officer at a traffic stop that makes me want to instead hand over the HCP, then wait further for the officer. IMO, a reasonable way of informing.

[Fallguy]

I told a story here back when I first started TGO, about an incident that I had with a Smyrna PD officer and a silly unfounded "revenge" style complaint a lady made about me in a parking lot.

To make a long story short, when I returned to my vehicle I found the officer waiting for me. He told me what was going on, I explained why I thought the complaint had been made, he and I agreed that it was probably just a nonsensical revenge sort of thing but he also wanted to see my driver's license just to make sure there weren't any warrants on me or anything like that. Standard procedure.

I gladly complied but informed him at that moment that I was a HCP holder and that I was armed, and that the firearm was back on my rear flank close to where my wallet was. I didn't want him seeing a flash of the gun and the situation get real bad, real fast right?

The officer's reply was utter professionalism. He just smiled and said, "That's fine with me. Just don't draw yours and I won't draw mine, ok?"

....and that is a situation in which I would tell him as well.

Big Rob glad to see that you also train your officers about dealing with HCP holders and carry laws. I think more LEOs are famillar with it over the years, but back when they were first being issued I don't think that was so much the case.